Free-will vs No Free-will (God knows everything?)
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Here is a little, not so light, reading for you.....
You believe that Satan is still around today? When it comes to the binding of Satan, I believe that this was going on during the spreading of the gospels in order to reach the ends of the earth (which the Jewish people were known and accustomed to, and also having Paul going to all the rest of the Gentile lands that are all mentioned with in this historical narrative), then Satan was released, and perhaps Nero Ceaser was used, and the war of the Jewish people and the Romans finally came to and end in September Ad70, and it left 1,000,000 people dead.
What is interesting is that when it comes to my belief, I believe that God used the Romans to overtake Israel, and wipe out all the children of Israel which left now today, no tribes what so ever. While Job stayed faithful, and knowing his place before God, Yahava saved him and restored everything he lost, to Satan. It's similar in the Case of the material destruction of Jerusalem, with the promise of the temple to come down which it did. That is why there is not one there today.
The judgement of those who were before Moses, who died in Noahs age, was a representation of how Israel would become occupied by the ways of man, other gods, ordinances, idols. Which God was going to destroy, as the great and dreadful day of the LORD was going to come upon them, when the Messiah had come. And when judgement was served, it was for all those who were in hades, also the judgement of satan, the false prophet, the beast, which all related to the insanity going on at the time, for what it is worth with people in Israel during a great tribulation, bare no food, if they did not hail to Nero as Lord, and hell broke loose as plagues insued upon the nation(s) of the Children of God, whom were of the seed of Abraham, would come to an end materially, however people now today become children of God, spiritually entering into the Kingdom of God, and being able to have relationship with the Father, and fellowship with the SOn of God.
There is alot to consider when it comes to revelation, and I do not know what you believe on those matters, however I have an idea to what is believed when it comes down to the narrative, it is the great tribulation which those people who were told to wait, watch, and look for Jesus to return those who faithfully were doing so, were taken away from this, and the rest of the wrath of God insued upon ISrael, with everything they ever known their whole world came crashing down, and it was crumbled to pieces, and today, we have God for letting all people have a chance at learning what is in the bible so they can try to get an idea and fix is going on hopefully by the spirit.
Thank you for commentary. That would be a lot to go through, have you come to the conclusion that this your whole belief system which is shared here by this guy? I had also got ahold of a Teacher, who I had learned these things shared from, and also going and doing my own study which all people should be encouraged to do and pray and ask God to help you by the spirit.
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
I have no qualms that Satan is still around today.
But funny that. Funny is so many people have said he is not, but give give differing opinions on that.
I had an extensively long debate over a couple years with one. Of course, I did not change his mind, nor he mine.
But that time spent actually solidified in my mind the date of Jesus birth and crucifixion.
That is not for now... and not until several month from now.
But funny that. Funny is so many people have said he is not, but give give differing opinions on that.
I had an extensively long debate over a couple years with one. Of course, I did not change his mind, nor he mine.
But that time spent actually solidified in my mind the date of Jesus birth and crucifixion.
That is not for now... and not until several month from now.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well post an explicit verse that says this and you would win.
But I see in Gods INspired Word, phrases like this:
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
(He chose us, not the other way around)
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Romans 9:15-24
King James Version
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 8:29-31
King James Version
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
That is Gods Word. what say you?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOu don't either. But at least I know where to go to find the teachings of experts in Koine Greek. I only did have just one year of koine greek in Bible college and am a little rusty.
Easy for you to say, but impossible to prove. Try looking up "pro-ginosko" and our english counterpart "prognosis". Then you can understand what Gods foreknowledge means in light of the verses I posted in the previous post.
Well as I am not espousing the teachings of John calvin- bgringing him up is irrelavent.
Yes god knows all future events.
The cross made everyone savable.
But "all who believe" is a simple statement of facxt and has nothing to do with how ones comes to believe. It is just a statement that anyone who does believe. How they get to faith is what we are concerned with here.
You may not think so but Calvin was saved.
So you think I am unsaved. WOW!!!!! I hope my room in heaven is next to yours so I can remind you daily what a peabrain you and I are and how you suck at pretending to be god!
Yes faith is a gift that comes from hearing the gospel.
But you have yet to show one verse that shows an unsaved person who is in the flesh (or the natural man as SCripture also calls him) can choose the things of God.
What makes me accept Christ and the person next to me reject? OOPS sorry, I know that spoils your perception I am unsaved but too bad for you Jesus loves me.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Your theology is not rusty, your theology is Calvin.
This is why you believe that Christianity is..,. what you've told us you do.... = "sin, confess, repeat".
That's not Christianity.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Fore-knowledge is to know before it happens, what will happen next.
You are a Calvinist.
That is why your understanding of redemption is... "sin, confess, repeat.""
"Faith comes by hearing" = The Gospel.
You can't believe what you've never heard.
Even you can figure that out, @Ronald Nolette ,
And that is why people like me are "sent"... as "how can they believe the Gospel", .. .Paul teaches, if they have not heard it.
This is why i PREACH the Gospel.
Try to comprehend that....
So says a Calvin worshiper.
What i can say about that is,. = only God knows.
Never said that about you.
Never will.
Its your own words that define you, and will judge you.
Here is one, more..
Jesus said.."All that believe in Me, i give unto them eternal life".
He didnt say, all that are caused to believe., as Heretics teach.
The Holy Spirit does not make or force anyone believe.
See, if God caused you to believe, then it would be God's fault that some dont, and in that case, God could not hold you accountable for rejecting Christ, if He didnt "make you believe".
See, its like this.
Thousands of CHRIST rejectors will go Hell today, because they died in UNBELIEF.. never born again.
So, if God caused that, (by not making them believe)... then God is holding unbelievers responsible for the unbelief He Himself caused.
And that is the Theological INSANITY that Calvinism teaches.
And you are a product of it.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
God can if he so chooses. ~ According to John Calvin who said on predestination "while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "
(some say hell or damnation)
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
God can do anything except sin if He so chooses, but that answer SAYS NOTHING ABOUT GIVING AN UNSAVED PERSON FREE WILL OR ARE THE SAVED PREDESTINED.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Being a liar again has added another sin to your list of sins you don't believe you hace committed for fear of not really being saved.
I hold to some parts of Calvin (I read his "Institutes") and disagree with others that do not align with scripture. That is why I so disagree with your "I never sin anymore" theology because it is anti-biblical.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
That is only partially correct. Maybe you should look up prognosis from Greek Scholars like Zodiates or legions of others. It is fore-knowledge through pre-planning and this foreknowledgeonly applies to whom will be saved as the verses I posted sahow you.
You spout free will but have yet to post a verse that shows being saved is solely up to the individual to decide whether or not they want it or not.
How does that work in light of these two verses from Gods Word:
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
And you are a liar. for I do not believe nor preach license to sin. But you know that. Instead you choose to sin by intentionally slandering a brother (though I think you believe I am unsaved)
Nice dodge. And you have sinned again by saying I worship Calvin, I don't! Boy you have trashed your sinless perfection by writing on these threads!
Well anyone with an IQ above 1 can see it in your writing and the implications you throw out.
Once again a free grammar lesson for you.
Yes that is what jesus said. What it doesn't say at all is how one comes to faith. It doesn't imply predestination or free will, it just says that whoever believes will be saved.
Not in the least! If god did not intervene in anyones life- then all would go to hell. See the bible verse3s I posted show your philosophical musings a false conclusion here.
Adding another sin. Calvin never taught double predestination! You love to vomit lies about people don't you. If that is true, then all men are lost by nature (Eph. 2) and god forced that unb elief on all, and that is untrue. that you can blame Adam on.
But instead of philosophical rantings why not post some specific verses that actually point out that man is saved by their own decision. Try that instead of bearing false witness for a refreshing change.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
But John Calvin did preach this.
Calvin: Predestination
Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.
www.theologian-theology.com
Predestination According to Calvin
According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).You can read the link for more. This is enough that should make anyone run from the very idea of Calvinism... or pre-destination.
That God would bar anyone who turned to Him from salvation and sentence to eternal death , if true, should shoot such fear in anyone because there are those for whatever reason
turn.
You are going to come back that Calvin said it was the reprobates that are barred from access to salvation....
Webster says... Reprobate is a noun, adjective, or verb that means an unprincipled or depraved person, morally corrupt, or condemned. It comes from Late Latin reprobare, meaning "to disapprove or to condemn."
Well, you may be too young to remeber this even being from the US but
Karla Faye Tucker (November 18, 1959 – February 3, 1998) was an American woman sentenced to death for killing two people with a pickaxe during a burglary.[3] She was the first woman to be executed in the United States since Velma Barfield in 1984 in North Carolina, and the first in Texas since Chipita Rodriguez in 1863.[4] She was convicted of murder in Texas in 1984 and executed by lethal injection after 14 years on death row.[5] Due to her gender and widely publicized conversion to Christianity, she inspired an unusually large national and international movement that advocated the commutation of her sentence to life without parole, a movement that included a few foreign government officials
She became a Christiaan in prison and she had quite a prison ministry of sorts...
She was a horrible person, and then she changed.
So according to Calvin would it be too little too late? If not, why not?
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Matthew 21:22
And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
We have a choice. Period
Do you mean that God cannot sin, in the way that God cannot swear by anyone greater? Heb 6:13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself. That there is no one greater than God who He could offend, sin against, rebel against, disobey? And no Being who set rules, laws, commands for God to keep, follow or obey. But if there were, it would be possible for God to sin, sin against this greater sovereign. Or can He sin against Himself? Has God set rules, laws, commands etc for Himself to obey and corresponding judgments that He would bring on Himself, thus condemning Himself?
Isn’t it great that God our Creator gave us the ability to choose. And isn’t it fantastic that He has a script that everything and everyone is a part of. And that this storyline has chapters or scenes which has beginnings and endings. That in all these chapters the ending justify the rest of the chapter. It seems that this Creator/Owner of all things can do as He pleases. He gives and takes away and gives again, even more. He builds and destroys and builds again, even greater according to the amazing theme of God’s story, the script He thought up being fantastic and is unfolding before our very eyes. What a privilege to be a part of the cast.
God made angels and some rebelled. God made humans and they all rebelled. If we paused the story there, part of the way through, we would probably go away feeling depressed. But thanks be to the Script writer, the best is yet to come, the endings will make sense of the rest of the story. God made man and they all rebelled, but God will restore all humans to a greater state and to play out a greater role in the ending of this chapter. God made angels and some rebelled but God their Creator will reconcile, redeem and restore all angels and give them a greater role in the ending of this chapter including the grand finale, wait for it….. God granting Satan a throne on His left, with His Lamb on His right Whose sacrifice reconciled ALL to Himself so that He is all in all. Now that’s something to be excited about! What a demonstration of the love of this God of ours, that He would love not only some but eventually ALL, including every enemy. This is not only GOOD NEWS but BRILLIANT NEWS! The GOSPEL of redemption and reconciliation. Maybe the GOSPEL of mercy at its finest, the GOSPEL of grace at its extreme. Praise the Creator of this divine script with many ongoing happy endings!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Problem is that Calvin did not use the term predestine to describe the lost.
Too many believers forget that all of mankind is born lost! As Paul wrote in Ephesians, we are by nature objects of wrath. God does not have to predestine the lost- all are already lost.
John Calvin confessed that the doctrine of Double Predestination was a horrible and dreadful decree in his Institutes of the Christian Religion. Calvin believed that the scriptures taught that God made an "absolute decree" (latin. decretum absolutum) before the foundation of the world that all people would be divided into two classes of the elect and the reprobate that was determined by God's decision alone.
Calvin also taught in His work "INSTITUTES" that double predestination is a horrible and dreadful decree.
But the predestination of the believer is a very well established biblical doctrine. Before I even knew who John Calvin was I believed from Scripture alone the saved are elected and predestined.
I am not here to promote or denounce what Calvin thinks. I am interested in the bible and what it says. This woman if she made a good confession of faith was saved! That is biblical no matter who may agree or disagree with it.
Now if you look at these verses grammatically and in light of the Scriptures I posted earlier you would see these verses say absolutely nothing about how one comes to believe (free-will or predestination) They are simple statements that if a person does A, thenh B will occur. Nothing about how they are able to do A..
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
God is the absolute sovereign in the universe. Sin is any act that violates HIs character. God will not act against His character. God gets to define what sin is and isn't. He defined sin as anything that defies His will.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
First, welcome to the forum.
Second, god gave us the ability to make choices, but Scripture is clear an unsaved man cannot choose god.
Thrid, god will not restore teh fallen angels or fallen, unsaved humans. The fallen angels are condemend for all eternity as well as all who die without trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin payment.
