Free-will vs No Free-will (God knows everything?)

[MatthewG]

Does God know everything or does God work through the possibilities that come along?

What would you say?

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will and everything is predetermined.

Do you think God only knows what he wants to know, and then works through whatever that event may be with the freewill of man?

God created man, and said it was good.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Does God know everything or does God work through the possibilities that come along?

What would you say?

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will and everything is predetermined.

Do you think God only knows what he wants to know, and then works through whatever that event may be with the freewill of man?

God created man, and said it was good.

I believe in Divine Determination: God author's everything that exists and happens.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe in Divine Determination: God author's everything that exists and happens.

Hello,

Therefore God setup for Adam and Eve to fall? And wouldnt that means its Gods fault, that they fell?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hello,

Therefore God setup for Adam and Eve to fall? And wouldnt that means its Gods fault, that they fell?

I wouldn't put it that way. Since God is the author of our existence, then everything that happens has a narrative purpose.

 

[MatthewG]

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

 

[Rockerduck]

Charles Spurgeon said "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven"

Martin Luther said "God foreknows nothing by contingency, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal, and infallible will. By this thunderbolt, "Free-will" is thrown prostrate, and utterly dashed to pieces".

In my life, I do God's will only and I pray continually. There is little room for freedom in the Grace of God and His mercies through the living Word of God, Jesus Christ, who died for us

 

[BlessedPeace]

Does God know everything or does God work through the possibilities that come along?

What would you say?

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will and everything is predetermined.

Do you think God only knows what he wants to know, and then works through whatever that event may be with the freewill of man?

God created man, and said it was good.

I'd think God would have to be all knowing, Omniscient. God is Omnipresent, everywhere at all times.
He knows the beginning from the end and all that happens and that exists is by God's will.
Isn't prophecy forewarning us of God's plans?

 

[MatthewG]

Charles Spurgeon said "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven"

Martin Luther said "God foreknows nothing by contingency, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal, and infallible will. By this thunderbolt, "Free-will" is thrown prostrate, and utterly dashed to pieces".

In my life, I do God's will only and I pray continually. There is little room for freedom in the Grace of God and His mercies through the living Word of God, Jesus Christ, who died for us

Those are just men, Rocker. I noticed a lot of people like to quote so-called famous people. Idk why people would put faith in them, instead of Jesus.

What about scriptures that talk about freedom?

2 Corinthians 3:17 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty [emancipation from bondage, true freedom].

What about the story of Adam and Eve?

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

I'd think God would have to be all knowing, Omniscient. God is Omnipresent, everywhere at all times.
He knows the beginning from the end and all that happens and that exists is by God's will.
Isn't prophecy forewarning us of God's plans?

What do you mean by all knowing? Does it mean when something happens God is able to work around that issue? It seems like that is the narrative all through the bible.

If people believe God is all knowing like CadyandZoe shared, it would mean its Gods fault that humankind had fell in the first place.

I believe in Divine Determination: God author's everything that exists and happens.

 

[MatthewG]

It seems atleast to me God works by you allowing him to work with you in your life.

If you believe everything is predeteremined, you have no say in your life what so ever, and you have no freewill choice.

That means some people cant even come to faith; cause they couldnt choose to.

A very sad postion and mindset to have.

 

[Rockerduck]

Those are just men, Rocker. I noticed a lot of people like to quote so-called famous people. Idk why people would put faith in them, instead of Jesus.

What about scriptures that talk about freedom?

2 Corinthians 3:17 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty [emancipation from bondage, true freedom].

We do have freedom, in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit brings freedom from sin and death, we are free from the Law of the old covenant, that Jesus redeemed us from. John 8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
He is the only one who can give spiritual freedom, meaning, you aren't bogged down by passed sin's of the old Adamic nature, you live better serving Jesus Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Does God know everything or does God work through the possibilities that come along?

What would you say?

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will and everything is predetermined.

Do you think God only knows what he wants to know, and then works through whatever that event may be with the freewill of man?

God created man, and said it was good.

Well God knows all He chooses. Whether He keeps some thing unknown to Himself is not declared so we should not try to answer that, for it is futile for we can never know how right or wrong we are.

The bible declares God is omniscient (knows all) so that needs to suffice us.

Also simply knowing what is going to happen in the future does not negate any free will a person may have. It is simply knowing what someone will choose.

 

[MatthewG]

We do have freedom, in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit brings freedom from sin and death, we are free from the Law of the old covenant, that Jesus redeemed us from. John 8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
He is the only one who can give spiritual freedom, meaning, you aren't bogged down by passed sin's of the old Adamic nature, you live better serving Jesus Christ.

That is cool, Rocker.

Pertaining to the question though, what are your thoughts on that? Do human beings have the freedom to choose God, or reject him? Do they have the freewill ability to do so? Or no free-will at all?

 

[Behold]

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will

God knowing everything, before it happens, is not God causing everything to Happen.

For example... you are going to have another meal, at some point.
God didnt choose when, and He didnt choose what you will eat, but HE KNOWS when you will eat and what you will eat.

See that?

That is KNOWING< but not causing.

And the reason you get to CHOOSE the time and the meal, is because you have FREE WILL
How do you know?
Because CHOICE is FREE WILL.

You get to choose what you are going to do, think, say, feel, ... and God knew you would before you did, but He didnt cause it.... YOU CHOSE IT... .and He KNEW you would.

= God's Foreknowledge... which is God KNOWING BE-FORE.... you do it..... "FORE- Knowledge" or knowledde of what is going to happen..... before it happens.

The Bible does this also.... It has foreknowledge.
It KNEW that Jesus would come.
It KNOWS that that the Anti-Christ is about to come.

Its not causing this to happen....Its SHOWING YOU that it will...

"Fore-Knowledge".

 

[MatthewG]

Well God knows all He chooses. Whether He keeps some thing unknown to Himself is not declared so we should not try to answer that, for it is futile for we can never know how right or wrong we are.

Therefore it is possible that God may keep things unknown to himself. Who knows the mind of the Lord? Right?

The bible declares God is omniscient (knows all) so that needs to suffice us.

What do you mean?

Also simply knowing what is going to happen in the future does not negate any free will a person may have. It is simply knowing what someone will choose.

Does God work with mankind on the essence of their choices - let's say "be they rely on the flesh or be they rely on the spirit" is God able to work through these choices with individuals? Just as he did with Adam and Eve, and the Observer in the Garden?

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

God knowing everything, before it happens, is not God causing everything to Happen.

Do you think there are things that God waits for, and then makes the best decision for the individual ? Say when it involves an interaction by the flesh or interaction by the spirit?

For example... you are going to have another meal, at some point.
God didnt choose when, and He didnt choose what you will eat, but HE KNOWS when you will eat and what you will eat.

I don't see how that is relevant to the topic of 'Free-will or No Free-will'

See that?

That is KNOWING< but not causing.

Do you think God limits himself from knowing, and waits to see what people will do, and then make decision based on that. Surely he is never surprised however he does wait, patiently doesn't he?

And the reason you get to CHOOSE the time and the meal, is because you have FREE WILL
How do you know?
Because CHOICE is FREE WILL.

That is good, to know, that humans do have free will.

You get to choose what you are going to do, think, say, feel, ... and God knew you would before you did, but He didnt cause it.... YOU CHOSE IT... .and He KNEW you would.

Do you think he waits to see what we are gonna say, do, and then goes forward appropriately, say someone mean to someone in the flesh and by the spirit lets you know when you are cut back and chaseted?

= God's Foreknowledge... which is God KNOWING BE-FORE.... you do it..... "FORE- Knowledge" or knowledde of what is going to happen.

Not saying that God doesn't have foreknowledge, would say he does have the ability to know all possibilities.

The Bible does this also.... It has foreknowledge.
It KNEW that Jesus would come.
It KNOWS that that Anti-Christ is about to come.

Its not causing this to happen....Its SHOWING YOU that it will...

"Fore-Knowledge".

Thank you for replying.

 

[Behold]

Do you think there are things that God waits for, and then makes the best decision for the individual

God instructs, and God corrects, and God leads.
But, God does not choose for you.
Choice is up to you.. always.

"CHOOSE This day who you will believe" "choose this day who you will serve".".

Do you think God limits himself from knowing, and waits to see what people will do, and then make decision based on that. Surely he is never surprised however he does wait, patiently doesn't he?

Before you were born, God knew you would be here on this Thread.

You chose it, and He knew you would.

That is good, to know, that humans do have free will.

God didnt make flesh covered puppet robots.

Do you think he waits to see what we are gonna say, do, and then goes forward appropriately, say someone mean to someone in the flesh and by the spirit lets you know when you are cut back and chaseted?

God allows us to chose what we do.
And every choice is a deed, and every deed is a seed that is planted in the spiritual realm, that will bring in a consequence.

So, we have to be careful regarding what we say and believe, as those are our FAITH, and our Faith produces our destiny.

Let me show you how our words can curse us...

A person says... "well, in my family, we seem to die by CANCER".

See that? That is a prayer, that they just SPOKE, and they believe it, and Jesus said..."you will get what you BELIEVE", and that can be harmful, if you dont watch your words and your belief.

would say he does have the ability to know all possibilities.

Yes, that is God's foreknowledge.
The Bible has it also.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

I don't disagree with anything you said. Divine determinism isn't contrary to free will.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't disagree with anything you said. Divine determinism isn't contrary to free will.

What is divine determinism?

What does that mean to you, is it for example the determined will of God - for the covenant which he made with Abraham? Did Abraham have a choice in those matters to disobey just as adam did? would you like to share?

 

[MatthewG]

God instructs, and God corrects, and God leads.
But, God does not choose for you.
Choice is up to you.. always.

"CHOOSE This day who you will believe" "choose this day who you will serve".".



Before you were born, God knew you would be here on this Thread.

You chose it, and He knew you would.




God didnt make flesh covered puppet robots.




God allows us to chose what we do.
And every choice is a deed, and every deed is a seed that is planted in the spiritual realm, that will bring in a consequence.

So, we have to be careful regarding what we say and believe, as those are our FAITH, and our Faith produces our destiny.

Let me show you how our words can curse us...

A person says... "well, in my family, we seem to die by CANCER".

See that? That is a prayer, that they just SPOKE, and they believe it, and Jesus said..."you will get what you BELIEVE", and that can be harmful, if you dont watch your words and your belief.



Yes, that is God's foreknowledge.
The Bible has it also.

Just deciding what to do. I believe God works with man as they allow him to work with them. Thank you again, Behold for replying.