Free-will vs No Free-will (God knows everything?)

[Ronald Nolette]

It does not surprise me that you would show up to defend Satanic Calvinism.
After all, you dont even understand that Jesus has your sin.
So, as the most basic understand of the finished work of Jesus on the Cross is not within your comprehension, as your posted, by defining your Christianity as "sin, confess, repeat"... then of course Calvinism would also have you snared within its evil doctrine.

The reason the Calvinist's believe that God created Evil, is because that is what they believe, as taught by that maniac.

The reason that Calvin's' deceived argue that "free will " does not exist, is because the devil who taught them, has deceived them.

Any real Christian, who is born again for 3 mins, would understand that The Cross of Christ, that is their Salvation, is given to the world, and not just to those who are "predestined" to be forced to believe.

Calvinism is a doctrine straight from the mind of Satan.
If it has you, then that is just one more thing that is wrong with your "sin, confess, repeat"... theology that you live and breath, and actually teach in your "church". @Ronald Nolette

all mindless clap trap on y0our part without a sliver of biblical support.

Jesus paid for all my sin.

I believe and rejoice in the finished work of the cross. In His sight I am and will always remain perfect.

Isaiah declares God created both good and evil for their purposes. that does not dictate evil has to be performed. He allowed the angels free will and God allowed the evil to be demonstrated.

Nothing happens in the universe without Gods allowance for it.

No the devil teaches man has free will so that man can think He has some innate ability in themself to help along their own salvation. But the bible teaches differently.

An unsaved person cannot choose Jesus unless enabled by god to choose.

As Jesus said :

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: And draw here is the word for drag or impel. So I accept the bibles statement that we cannot come to Jesus unless dragged by God.

Also Those in their human nature cannot please god. Choosing Jesus pleases God so an unsaved (flesh) person cannot do that.

Also, salvation is foolishness to the natural man and they cannot understand it as said in 1 Cor. 2

 

[MatthewG]

Do you have any Bible verses proving God hides knowledge from Himself? Otherwise you are only speculating.

By your speculation, the Lord didn't know what happened in the garden with the serpent, since He asked Adam if he had sinned.

The context is one of the Lord giving Adam the chance to come forward into the light and come clean by confession with godly sorrow.

But Adam repented not and hardened his heart to God.

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

The omniscience of God is to know in the beginning all things that shall come to pass. The Word watches all things as they come to pass, and knows them with God in the beginning.

God knows.

 

[MatthewG]

Holy cow. That does not even make sense.

Are you a father? Did you ever have a kid who did something bad ? Did you ever say to your kid...."What have you done?"

Has that hid ever hidden from you knowing they were in trouble?

And did you not always know where your kid was?

Not a bit of sense...

Nope. Don't have children. Do not want.

 

[MatthewG]

But it was God's fault in that He made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Unless it just grew up there in the middle of the garden before someone came across it, pointed it out to God Who then discovered its potency then had to decide what to do with it. He then God had to make a plan on the spot, telling the humans not to touch or eat of it. God decided NOT to set angels around that tree, keeping humans from potentially eating of it so they could die. Though after they DID eat of this unprotected tree (unprotected, so as to not deprive humans of their freedom to choose it or not )
they found themselves desperately in need of the tree of life. Then God, not forseeing this (caught by surprise), decided to restrict their freedom to choose to eat of the tree of life and potentially live on forever. Question- Why did God, knowing the potential outcomes of the 2 trees, only restrict humans from the tree of life not the tree that leads to death? If their Creator trusted them to potentially resist the temptation to eat of tree (1) K of G&E forever, why did He take away their potential to learn from their mistake and trust them to obey God from then on, thus making it fine for them to eat of tree (2) and live forever?

God was wrong for making a tree of knowledge and good and evil? What else was he wrong for making? Humans too?

 

[Behold]

An unsaved person cannot choose Jesus unless enabled by god to choose.

This is a deceit you posted, , that denies John 3:16, and offends the Cross of Christ.

Listen,,

God does not decide and did not decide to skip some, and save others, as the Devil John Calvin taught you to teach.

God would have ALL to come to Jesus, of their own accord.

FREELY was Jesus given and Free we are to CHOSE Christ as our Savior and Lord.

Jesus said that "if I be lifted up (on the Cross) i will draw ALL people to me"..

Calvin's converts..... just like Him DENY the Cross of Christ, by "Limiting it" as you have stated.
So, you are known by what you teach, @Ronald Nolette and you just denied the Grace of God, by limiting it, as your "enabling" ve "not enabling" Cross denying theology.
God sent out the faithful to share this good news, that you twist and deny, when you imply or teach that God does not offer the Cross to everyone... but instead LIMITS it, as you are deceitfully explaining. @Ronald Nolette

 

[Behold]

Gods "foreknow3ledge" is the Greek word "pro-ginosko" which means known or planned in advance.

You dont read Koine Greek, and now you are trying to teach it?

Just exactly how FAKE can you be?
Is there no bottom to your pretense?? @Ronald Nolette

We get our English word prognosis from this. Prognosis as exemplified is as follows: A doctor is treating you for stage one cancer. He tells you the outcome for the doctor knows what he is going to do in advance and based on his expertise knows the results.

God's foreknowledge does not decide who will be saved, or lost
God's Foreknowledge only KNOWS who will be saved, or who wont, before you are born.

Gods foreknowledge and predestination only refer to the elect or chosen ones.

God's Foreknowledge knows everything about all future events.
its not Limited to people.
The Cross is not limited at all... as its given to "all who will believe" = John 3:16

The Cross Denying Heretic John Calvin and his deceived disciples, teach that the Cross is not for everyone, that its limited to some... and that denies the Cross and insults the Grace of God.

A person can only choose Christ when we are enbalbe by god to choose Jesus, the Scriptures are clear. The natural man cannot please god as is written.

"Faith (in Christ) comes by HEARING the Gospel"..
The Truth of The Gospel is made clear in the Heart of the hearer, by the Gospel = "which is the power of God UNTO Salvation...., but, THEY decide to believe or to "resist" and remain in unbelief.
If they decide to die in unbelief, a Christ Rejector, then this is there eternity, subsequent to their death... John 3:36

See....If you have KNOWN this truth, if you have tasted the "heavenly gift" that is the Truth of the Gospel revealed by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and you steadfastly refuse it, then ...."there remaineth no more sacrifice for your sin", as you have "willfully rejected" the only Sacrifice God offers, whereby you may be saved.

 

[MatthewG]

I would agree with you @Behold. There are people who are deceived by a the thought of God only picking and choosing some. That is because they are under the thinking of something that is contrary to what is true. All the the bible has to be used to interpret what the bible is saying and also in conjuction with the holy spirit. The conclusion is, that in Revelation, in the final chapter, it is said "The spirit and the bride say come", and those who hear, and choose to come, may drink of the eternal waters freely, and may partake in the tree of life, which is choosing to following the Lord Jesus Christ, whom speaks to all by God's creation, which was created by the spoken Word, from God, that was of God, and the Heart of God, being the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY today. Because of this God is calling to all people every single day, those who choose to hear, will faithfully go and have their relationship with Yahava, the Father, of the Lord Jesus Christ, who was sent in order to reconcile the world unto himself through Christ, in order to restore what was lost, now made available for all because of the glory of his Son, who did everything that we humans could not.

When it comes to the old covenant, and the promise made by the LORD to his people the nation of Israel, was to reap destruction from the great and dreadful day of the LORD which was to come upon them in that day in age, and generation which they would be completely wiped out and done away with, and now all material religion is moot, and people are able to seek out God in faith, and use the bible as a guide which is there to help us in our spiritual walk with God, and not something that has to be used to deem people must obey, however we can share and let the word be heard, and then the person hearing decide what would be right or wrong, by the spirit hopefully.

 

[Behold]

I would agree with you @Behold. There are people who are deceived by a the thought of God only picking and choosing some. That is because they are under the thinking of something that is contrary to what is true.

This "influence" you are talking about, is the blinding of the Mind, by Satan, 2 Corinthians 4:4 .... that is the "bewitching" of people.... that Paul talks about in Galatians, that Hebrews defines as being under the influence of :"Doctrines of Devils', ... Hebrews 13:9
And this specific one, that teaches that God "pre-destines" some people to not be allowed to Choose Jesus, is the most demomic Theology that has ever nearly universally infected the body of Christ.

= John Calvinism, has been putting people under its spell for about 500 obo yrs.
Even UNBELIEVERS, will reveal they are Calvinists..... like this........>"well, its all meant to be"... "you get what you are meant to get"... "its all part of the master plan".

See that ?

That is CALVINISM, ... the mind poison, that causes people to believe that they have no CHOICE, and whatever happens, bad, good, or horrible to them, is "God's will"... "pre-destined".

Calvinism is a unholy mind bending Cross denying Theology.

Its Like Theological Covid Virus, and few Calvinist's are cured.. as the deceiving power of John Calvinism... its power to "bewitch" people, is truly Satanic.

 

[MatthewG]

This "influence" you are talking about, is the blinding of the Mind, by Satan, 2 Corinthians 4:4 .... that is the "bewitching" of people.... that Paul talks about in Galatians, that Hebrews defines as being under the influence of :"Doctrines of Devils', ... Hebrews 13:9
And this specific one, that teaches that God "pre-destines" some people to not be allowed to Choose Jesus, is the most demomic Theology that has ever nearly universally infected the body of Christ.

= John Calvinism, has been putting people under its spell for about 500 obo yrs.
Even UNBELIEVERS, will reveal they are Calvinists..... like this........>"well, its all meant to be"... "you get what you are meant to get"... "its all part of the master plan".

See that ?

That is CALVINISM, ... the mind poison, that causes people to believe that they have no CHOICE, and whatever happens, bad, good, or horrible to them, is "God's will"... "pre-destined".

Calvinism is a unholy mind bending Cross denying Theology.

Its Like Theological Covid Virus, and few Calvinist's are cured.. as the deceiving power of John Calvinism... its power to "bewitch" people, is truly Satanic.

Yes, I have heard all about Calvinism for the most part. I'm afraid I have to disagree with it. However, people who would like to adhere to it are 100% allowed to believe so. I believe that Yahava, will be just in his judgments, and there are people who fall in all kinds of isms, there are those who continue to seek out God in faith, and they come to know the living God, and the one whom God had sent, and it sets them free from any type of religious bondage one may be facing. Because material church while it is beneficial, there are dangers so its always good to read and study the bible and see what all it has to say for itself, and seek out God.

 

[Behold]

Yes, I have heard all about Calvinism for the most part. I'm afraid I have to disagree with it. However, people who would like to adhere to it are 100% allowed to believe so. I believe that Yahava, will be just in his judgments,

God has already declared his Judgment .

The Cross of Christ is where Eternal Judgement ends for the Believer,..... and John 3:36 is where it continues after death, regarding those who died in unbelief, in their sin, never born again.

 

[Behold]

. However, people who would like to adhere to it are 100% allowed to believe so.

Absolutely.

Free will is God's gift also, and this choice to bite the apple and stay there... or embrace the Eternal Grace of God instead... is for each of us to decide.
And what we decide to do with Christ on earth, determines what God does with us, after we die.
Count on it.

 

[Behold]

it sets them free from any type of religious bondage one may be facing.

You are under the spiritual deception that Satan is not real, hell is not real, and Preteriam is true.
So, the spiritual reality is..... you are about the last person on the Forum, who needs to be talking about being set free from bondage.


Wake up @MatthewG

 

[Behold]

. Because material church while it is beneficial, there are dangers so its always good to read and study the bible and see what all it has to say for itself, and seek out God.

The Bible is the final authority.
Paul is our teacher, as Christ revealed to Him "the Gospel of the Grace of God", and "Church doctrine".

If your "teacher", commentary" "video" "online site".. does not agree 100% with what i just wrote then get away from it.... asap, and never look back.

 

[MatthewG]

The Bible is the final authority.
Paul is our teacher, as Christ revealed to Him "the Gospel of the Grace of God", and "Church doctrine".

If your "teacher", commentary" "video" "online site".. does not agree 100% with what i just wrote then get away from it.... asap, and never look back.

We believe differently here, I believe that the bible is secondary to the spirit of God, working in and through believers to do what is right in abiding in Christ as they walk a faithful life, in trusting God. The bible is referential where a personal relationship with Yahava, worshiping him in spirit and truth. The bible has a lot of things people can come to realize pertaining to God, however it is not the final authority.

You are under the spiritual deception that Satan is not real, hell is not real, and Preteriam is true.
So, the spiritual reality is..... you are about the last person on the Forum, who needs to be talking about being set free from bondage.


Wake up @MatthewG

I believe that Satan has been done away with, and hell has been done away with as the bible states via the Revelation, wrote by John.

I believe that adveristy still exist for sure, darkness against the light and people loved the darkness more than the light.

God has already declared his Judgment .

The Cross of Christ is where Eternal Judgement ends for the Believer,..... and John 3:36 is where it continues after death, regarding those who died in unbelief, in their sin, never born again.

I guess there is a reason why Jesus said all people would be raised from the dead, either with condemnation spiritual body, or life spiritual body which was built up through living here in life, abiding in Christ and praying to the Father, and praying for all the people you know, and to help people trust in God as one goes in their life, to help you by the spirit which Jesus said people are able to request help by the spirit by asking the Father.

Absolutely.

Free will is God's gift also, and this choice to bite the apple and stay there... or embrace the Eternal Grace of God instead... is for each of us to decide.
And what we decide to do with Christ on earth, determines what God does with us, after we die.
Count on it.

God will judge rightly, at the day of death.

 

[Behold]

I believe that Satan has been done away with,

And He's so glad you do.

I guess there is a reason why Jesus said all people would be raised from the dead,

HE said all will be raised, but He didnt say all will be born again.
And you can't be born again in Hell.

So, unbelievers go to Revelation 20:11 because after they died, not born again, their name is not found in "The Lamb's book of life".

THe born again, go to the "bema seat".... and all their works... that is to say.. all the deeds they ever did for God and Christ will be examined by Jesus, regarding the Heart MOTIVE, which produced the "work"..

Now, Let me shine that Light on myself, so that i can bring it home for you.... Reader.

You see me on this Forum.
Ive written more Threads on this Forum, then anyone who has ever used it.
I post constantly, when im here.
I teach "Christ crucified" as "the Gospel". as that is the Truth. John 14:6
So, ALL ive done here in the last nearly 3 yrs....., and on every Christian forum that is available for about a decade...., and all that ive done subsequent to being born again in real life...., in the USA, or in the Middle East or in other places..,... = Jesus is going to look at all of it.. and examine the WORK ive done..... for HEART MOTIVE.

Why did i work so hard ...... .Why did i put so much time into it.. why did i keep on PREACHING Christ Crucified and Teaching Grace through faith.... ??????????????????????????????
??????????
??????????
??????????

Reader.....Jesus is going to look into my HEART MOTIVE , and examine every single work i ever did for God and Christ, and .... that is coming to me... because its coming to us all.... who are truly born again, and not just water baptized and religious.

I teach my students that its a good thing to consider your death....... and its a good thing to realize that you are going to meet Jesus and He's going to look at = "all you did in MY BODY"< and examine it for HEART MOTIVE.

It's coming.... and thinking about that.. , (and now you can think about it).....as is good for your walk of faith.... Reader.

 

[MatthewG]

Its in the bible. You tell me to read it and believe it, didnt you friend? @Behold?

Alot of the message of revelation pertained to the judgement of the Jewish people of the old age, and the doing away with death, hades and satan.

Do you believe those things have been done?

 

[12question]

We believe differently here, I believe that the bible is secondary to the spirit of God, working in and through believers to do what is right in abiding in Christ as they walk a faithful life, in trusting God. The bible is referential where a personal relationship with Yahava, worshiping him in spirit and truth. The bible has a lot of things people can come to realize pertaining to God, however it is not the final authority.



I believe that Satan has been done away with, and hell has been done away with as the bible states via the Revelation, wrote by John.

I believe that adveristy still exist for sure, darkness against the light and people loved the darkness more than the light.



I guess there is a reason why Jesus said all people would be raised from the dead, either with condemnation spiritual body, or life spiritual body which was built up through living here in life, abiding in Christ and praying to the Father, and praying for all the people you know, and to help people trust in God as one goes in their life, to help you by the spirit which Jesus said people are able to request help by the spirit by asking the Father.



God will judge rightly, at the day of death.

I think I agree with you here.....We believe differently here, I believe that the bible is secondary to the spirit of God, working in and through believers to do what is right in abiding in Christ as they walk a faithful life, in trusting God. The bible is referential where a personal relationship with Yahava, worshiping him in spirit and truth. The bible has a lot of things people can come to realize pertaining to God, however it is not the final authority.
I see that God is the Sovereign Creator Who created everything for His pleasure. We are very fortunate to be a character in His script and to play out our individual part. And that in this He has given me the means of having an individual personal relationship with Him and Him with me every day. Now that's cool. If God uses another person, a book, nature or anything else to communicate with me then that's up to Him.

 

[12question]

The Bible is the final authority.
Paul is our teacher, as Christ revealed to Him "the Gospel of the Grace of God", and "Church doctrine".

If your "teacher", commentary" "video" "online site".. does not agree 100% with what i just wrote then get away from it.... asap, and never look back.

Did God tell you that the bible is the final authority or did you get that from someone else who said that?

 

[MatthewG]

I think I agree with you here.....We believe differently here, I believe that the bible is secondary to the spirit of God, working in and through believers to do what is right in abiding in Christ as they walk a faithful life, in trusting God. The bible is referential where a personal relationship with Yahava, worshiping him in spirit and truth. The bible has a lot of things people can come to realize pertaining to God, however it is not the final authority.
I see that God is the Sovereign Creator Who created everything for His pleasure. We are very fortunate to be a character in His script and to play out our individual part. And that in this He has given me the means of having an individual personal relationship with Him and Him with me every day. Now that's cool. If God uses another person, a book, nature or anything else to communicate with me then that's up to Him.

Yes exactly would agree to your notions as well because I do believe God is calling to all daily in all different ways and means. Then their life is filled with Light. Though darkness continues to roam.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Did God tell you that the bible is the final authority or did you get that from someone else who said that?

As the four corners of the Holy Bible are, without question, our handbook while we go through mortality,
I trust God to give us our instructions.. as we study. Period.

If YOU dont understand it... and clearly you dont.... why dont you enlighten us what you base your learnings and understandings on. Perhaps Ellen G White, Joseph Smith / Brigham Young, OR Pope Frankie?

Are you letting your preconceived biases cloud your understanding as you dig into the Bible? Truth is, it is inevitable that we all occasionally do so.... but will admit it when we have those clarity moments of truth.


When I first started in religious forums I truly, even being in my 60s at the time, was such a babe when it came to God. But funny that. Having been all my life with in the same denomination, and having no reason to doubt their teachings I started to on certain things.

One thing was my church , I guess, supports predestination. I say I guess because never once in my now near 77 years did I ever hear a teaching or preaching on a Calvin thought of anything.... OR if they did... I zoned out either in boredom or God drew my attention away.

No matter... since once I learned that about my denomination... and that it is in the West Minster Confession of Faith... has to be right..... Doesn't it?

Isn't that cool... so I thought...

Even my boss at the time, a member of the same congregation would say that ... and just how off this thought is... when we would be talking religion and I was struggling with what if I mess up so badly I end up in hell....
(in my 20s at the time, my boss told me... same denomination all his life... that with belief in Jesus I will go to heaven... no matter what.... and this he surly believed because a a certain abuse at work that went on for far too long.... and I knew he did not understand anything... probably because of youth teachings? because he said NO ONE WILL GO TO HELL. Not HITLER.. no one. In the end all will be saved.

And then on a break while I was reading my bible he made the comment... I needed to get myself a good concordance or I would never understand what I was reading..... obviously it never worked for him.

I digress.
It was not until I found the spirited debates on forums of this kind did I really have my eyes opened to how many differences there are in beliefs....

It was the first time I heard Calvinism and Arminianism being compared and I can to KNOW I could not believe in Predestination because not only is it not talked of in those terms in the Bible but because I know I have free will.... and to my shame have exercised it even while believing I was headed to heaven.

The I read what John Calvin said....

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).”

And fear as sharp as a two edged sword went through my heart.... "would be “barred from access to” salvation "

Could that be me????????? Had I prayed the "sinners prayer often enough"? Had I asked forgiveness for even my forgotten sins? And was it granted? And what about the things that somehow trip me up even today... am I forgiven?????

So I went hunting in the Westminster Confession

It is actually worse.... to me

CHAPTER 3​

Of God’s Eternal Decree​

1. God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions; yet hath He not decreed any thing because He foresaw it as future, as that which would come to pass, upon such conditions.
3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
4. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.
5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.
6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by His power through faith unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
7. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.
8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending to the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election. So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God; and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.

We believe differently here, I believe that the bible is secondary to the spirit of God, working in and through believers to do what is right in abiding in Christ as they walk a faithful life, in trusting God. The bible is referential where a personal relationship with Yahava, worshiping him in spirit and truth. The bible has a lot of things people can come to realize pertaining to God, however it is not the final authority.

And I believe it is because of the Holy Words and study and understanding that the Holy Spirit works within us.

I believe that Satan has been done away with, and hell has been done away with as the bible states via the Revelation, wrote by John.

Now is Satan gone???????????? Maybe.......

But if he is we need him back

Satan targeted adults, and primarily the Christian adults to drag them away from God....Not so much the children.

Whoever and whatever is coming at us today target all children... the worst are those demonic possessed disciples who masquerade as teachers and "WOKE" who
are turning the children away from Gods command to parents of bringing them up in the way they should go yada yada... and the result is an end product that even the heavenly Father will find it hard to recognize,

I just would like to know how many of those children who are being so deceived actually had a baby baptism
or dedication to God and who didnt....