Free-will vs No Free-will (God knows everything?)

[Ronald Nolette]

What do you mean by this?

As Gopd defines sin, sin is anything that would violate what God does or holds as right. Let me make an extreme example. If god thought man murdering man was okay- then that would not be sin

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Problem is that Calvin did not use the term predestine to describe the lost.

Too many believers forget that all of mankind is born lost! As Paul wrote in Ephesians, we are by nature objects of wrath. God does not have to predestine the lost- all are already lost.

John Calvin confessed that the doctrine of Double Predestination was a horrible and dreadful decree in his Institutes of the Christian Religion. Calvin believed that the scriptures taught that God made an "absolute decree" (latin. decretum absolutum) before the foundation of the world that all people would be divided into two classes of the elect and the reprobate that was determined by God's decision alone.

Calvin also taught in His work "INSTITUTES" that double predestination is a horrible and dreadful decree.

But the predestination of the believer is a very well established biblical doctrine. Before I even knew who John Calvin was I believed from Scripture alone the saved are elected and predestined.

I am not here to promote or denounce what Calvin thinks. I am interested in the bible and what it says. This woman if she made a good confession of faith was saved! That is biblical no matter who may agree or disagree with it.

Now if you look at these verses grammatically and in light of the Scriptures I posted earlier you would see these verses say absolutely nothing about how one comes to believe (free-will or predestination) They are simple statements that if a person does A, thenh B will occur. Nothing about how they are able to do A..

But I know what the meaning of is, is

 

[12question]

As Gopd defines sin, sin is anything that would violate what God does or holds as right. Let me make an extreme example. If god thought man murdering man was okay- then that would not be sin

It's interesting you bought up the character of God in relation to murder. For God murdered many of the people who lived in Jericho by making their homes in the walls fall down crushing the inhabitants. The rest who survived were killed by Joshua's army as commanded by God. Now 40 years earlier God commanded His people, including Joshua, 'Do not kill' thus expressing love and kindness instead. This would be in line with God's character would you say? It appears that this same God revealed His same character (love and kindness) when He gave them the land He had promised to give them. But this time He said, 'do kill'. Kill everything that has breath, men, women, children and animals. And the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Who promised you this land will join in on this killing on mass. God will cause walls to fall and crush people, He will send large hailstones and destroy others. Josh 10:11 And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword.
So are you saying that the end (the manifestation of God’s character) justifies the means (kill or do not kill)? So what is sin, to kill or not kill?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

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But I know what the meaning of is, is

Good for you- now go teach it to Clinton!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It's interesting you bought up the character of God in relation to murder. For God murdered many of the people who lived in Jericho by making their homes in the walls fall down crushing the inhabitants. The rest who survived were killed by Joshua's army as commanded by God. Now 40 years earlier God commanded His people, including Joshua, 'Do not kill' thus expressing love and kindness instead. This would be in line with God's character would you say? It appears that this same God revealed His same character (love and kindness) when He gave them the land He had promised to give them. But this time He said, 'do kill'. Kill everything that has breath, men, women, children and animals. And the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Who promised you this land will join in on this killing on mass. God will cause walls to fall and crush people, He will send large hailstones and destroy others. Josh 10:11 And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword.
So are you saying that the end (the manifestation of God’s character) justifies the means (kill or do not kill)? So what is sin, to kill or not kill?

Gode can do what He chooses with the unsaved. He has no relationship with them

All the unsaved do to their rekjecting Gods only payment for their sin, must pay for their sin themselves. the death they received physically and spiritually was a result of their evil and not God killing them in cold blood.

Just like when a state executes a criminal. gods justice is perfect.

To kill is not to sin. The command is thou shalt not murder! there is an enormous difference between killing one and committing murder though both victims end up dead.

And if you wish tro challenge God in what He chooses to do with His own creation that He owns-----Good Luck with that!

 

[12question]

Gode can do what He chooses with the unsaved. He has no relationship with them

All the unsaved do to their rekjecting Gods only payment for their sin, must pay for their sin themselves. the death they received physically and spiritually was a result of their evil and not God killing them in cold blood.

Just like when a state executes a criminal. gods justice is perfect.

To kill is not to sin. The command is thou shalt not murder! there is an enormous difference between killing one and committing murder though both victims end up dead.

And if you wish tro challenge God in what He chooses to do with His own creation that He owns-----Good Luck with that!

I agree with you, God owns what He created and can do whatever He wants with it. And He has a plan for it which is to ultimately bring Him pleasure. I love the fact that He has created a script in His mind and is carrying it out exactly according to it. He is the Potter, everything else is His clay. He is the Puppeteer, we are the puppets He made for His pleasure.
I guess the 10 commandments God gave for us to obey, not from us for God to obey. He can do what is for us good and evil. Eg. He doesn't have to honour His parent as He doesn't have any. No one said to Him, Though shalt not kill. Ex 20:13 KJV. You shall not murder. ESV. So
God is answerable to no one.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Hmmmm.....

Will I ever get the egg off my face. It seems to have been there since I was born.

I am a firm believer in free will... and up to this morning in my near 77 years have been a supporter of baby baptisms or dedications.

Not now.

I just posted a long reply #33 in The False Doctrine of Infant Baptism

Reason: You cannot have been baby baptised because your free will of decision is made for you by someone else.

My denomination ...
THEN...Through this act, parents and the church community affirm their responsibility to nurture and guide the child in faith, while also recognizing the child’s eventual confirmation of their baptismal vows when they reach an age of understanding.

IOW The baby baptism is the start in growth and is consummated when one reached the age of understanding........

So your choice is taken away from you. By your loving parent who does not realize what they have done.