"Free" Will

[tooldtocare]

For those who say that God does not or cannot know actions beforehand:

I mean I am sorry, but the comments that say God doesn't know this beforehand are just not realistic based on what's stated on numerous occasions in the Bible.

It makes no difference whether He is all knowing or not. What we as fellow humans do to ourselves is our choice alone to make. I believe the term has been coined "free will"

This term is a legal term & is often used in debate in the courts.

-

 

[Born_Again]

Okay, so you don't have to assume, OP means original post... I was implying we were getting away from the point of the thread.

 

[newbirth]

Okay, but you are missing the point of the OP. Do we have Free Will. Yes. Like was mentioned in an earlier response. You can choose to serve God or serve yourself and the world. Free will is a core cause for evil in the world. If we didn't have free will we would have no choice but to abide in God's Love or His will forever without any say in the matter. We have the choice.. We have free will. Stop trying to muddy the water with side notes like "freedom". Now Please, Kindly return to the OP.

God Bless,
BA

free to choose is not free will...it is just options...we are free to choose to follow God or not...options....but either way it is not free will...because following the Father is doing do His will ,not yours.......following the devil is doing the devil's will...not yours....so where exactly is your free will????

 

[ATP]

Salvation is a choice.

Ephesians 1:4 – Predestination by Wayne Jackson
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/784-ephesians-1-4-predestination

As he commences his letter to the saints in Ephesus, Paul declares that God:

“chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world … having foreordained [predestinated – KJV] us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself?” (1:4-5).

Does this passage teach that our salvation is strictly a matter of God’s arbitrary election, settled before the world was made, irrespective of any choice that we might exercise in the matter?

That was the philosophy of John Calvin. The Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith stated:

“By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and other foreordained to everlasting death” (Article III).

This concept makes void every passage in the Bible that teaches human responsibility. If one’s eternal destiny was sealed from the beginning of time, what is the purpose of preaching to the lost?

The key phrase in Ephesians 1:4 is “in him.” It was not the case that God chose certain individuals to be either saved or lost; rather, the Lord foreordained that a certain class of persons would be saved.

What sort of class? Those who submit to Heaven’s divine plan of redemption, which, in this dispensation, involves obeying Jesus Christ (Hebrews 5:8-9), and entering into that relationship that is described as being “in him” (cf. Galatians 3:26-27).

To say the same thing in another way, before the world’s foundation, God elected to save those who would be obedient to His Son. Underline “chose us in him,” and record this comment: Not individual election, but class election.

 

[newbirth]

Salvation is a choice.

Ephesians 1:4 – Predestination by Wayne Jackson
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/784-ephesians-1-4-predestination

As he commences his letter to the saints in Ephesus, Paul declares that God:

“chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world … having foreordained [predestinated – KJV] us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself?” (1:4-5).

Does this passage teach that our salvation is strictly a matter of God’s arbitrary election, settled before the world was made, irrespective of any choice that we might exercise in the matter?

That was the philosophy of John Calvin. The Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith stated:

“By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and other foreordained to everlasting death” (Article III).

This concept makes void every passage in the Bible that teaches human responsibility. If one’s eternal destiny was sealed from the beginning of time, what is the purpose of preaching to the lost?

The key phrase in Ephesians 1:4 is “in him.” It was not the case that God chose certain individuals to be either saved or lost; rather, the Lord foreordained that a certain class of persons would be saved.

What sort of class? Those who submit to Heaven’s divine plan of redemption, which, in this dispensation, involves obeying Jesus Christ (Hebrews 5:8-9), and entering into that relationship that is described as being “in him” (cf. Galatians 3:26-27).

To say the same thing in another way, before the world’s foundation, God elected to save those who would be obedient to His Son. Underline “chose us in him,” and record this comment: Not individual election, but class election.

salvation is a gift.....accepting the gift is a choice

 

[ATP]

salvation is a gift.....accepting the gift is a choice

Yes!

 

[DPMartin]

This is not in support of some theology in the category of Calvinism.

"Freewill" is a argument to justify one’s own judgement of what is good for one’s self. That is what Eve was deceived into at the tree. And now we hear that it's God’s will that we Judge for ourselves what is good for ourselves. This is a delusion, because throughout the scriptures it is the Lord God who is the Judge of what is good for all of His creation. No exceptions.

If God tells you what to choose, then that is His choice for you that is good in His Judgement, not your judgement of what is good, isn’t it? And if you believe/ trust what God tells you then you will do accordingly. And one doesn’t believe or trust what they don’t know, and no one knows God unless He chooses to reveal Himself to that person. Again, its all God’s choice.

 

[tooldtocare]

If God tells you what to choose, then that is His choice for you that is good in His Judgement, not your judgement of what is good, isn’t it? .,.,.,.,.Again, its all God’s choice.


Forgive me but "God" has never talked to me. Awake in the day or asleep in the night, God has "never" talked to me. If you are a special gifted one where God talks to you then good for you, I just hope you were listening and obey His suggestions. For me it all begins with the Ten Commandments I memorized as a child. It was, as a child "The Law". Now in my 60's I can look around and see that most of the Ten Commandments has been passed into public "law" and everyone obeys them or goes to jail; the choice is yours alone to make.

Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not murder

Are a few that is now written into public law.

King James Version

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

Just obey the law no matter whether you are a religious person or lot. To do otherwise is to go to jail

-

 

[newbirth]

If God tells you what to choose, then that is His choice for you that is good in His Judgement, not your judgement of what is good, isn’t it? .,.,.,.,.Again, its all God’s choice.


Forgive me but "God" has never talked to me. Awake in the day or asleep in the night, God has "never" talked to me. If you are a special gifted one where God talks to you then good for you, I just hope you were listening and obey His suggestions. For me it all begins with the Ten Commandments I memorized as a child. It was, as a child "The Law". Now in my 60's I can look around and see that most of the Ten Commandments has been passed into public "law" and everyone obeys them or goes to jail; the choice is yours alone to make.

Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not murder

Are a few that is now written into public law.

King James Version

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

Just obey the law no matter whether you are a religious person or lot. To do otherwise is to go to jail

-

Hebrews 1King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


the thing is He said those who has ears to hear let them hear...

 

[DPMartin]

Didn’t the Lord God write them down twice and give them to Moses to give to the Children of Israel that you now read and or hear. And just for the record you should read Exodus Chapter 20 where the Lord God did speak the "Ten Commandments" directly to the Children of Israel from the Mountain. And newbirth is correct in the piont he has made.

You have received the life in the flesh through Adam and Eve, and one receives the Life of Christ through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. So on and so forth. Despite your reasoning, God’s system of giving and communicating works. But if you have any respect for what God has done and His will for His people. Maybe you should consider not mocking the Lord God’s communication and intended relationship with His, considering:

　
1Jn:1:1: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2: (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4: And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
And this guy Apostle John, is the Beloved of Jesus the Christ. If you’re on the outside looking in on this, maybe you should reconsider your relationship with the Lord God, if you have one at all. Because according to Jesus:
Jn:10:24: Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25: Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26: But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30: I and my Father are one.

Also:
Jn:14:18: I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19: Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20: At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21: He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22: Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24: He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25: These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

　
Maybe you’ve been taught that God is in some great and far away place, which if you are not born again He might as well be. But to those who know the Lord God, not know of, know, Jesus says.

Lk:17:20: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And the Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of Heaven and where is the Throne? And what is His footstool?

Also does the law of Faith supercede the Ten commandments, or does the Ten Commandments supercede the law of Faith?

　

 

[tooldtocare]

Salvation is a choice.

Ephesians 1:4 – Predestination by Wayne Jackson
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/784-ephesians-1-4-predestination

As he commences his letter to the saints in Ephesus, Paul declares that God:
God elected to save those who would be obedient to His Son. Underline “chose us in him,” and record this comment: Not individual election, but class election.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

iF you truly believe "God elected to save those who would .,..,"

You might want to rethink this. The Lord I know; is the same Lord\God I knew as a child. My God; i.e. Allah in Arabic, something in Hebrew Lord\God in English, seeded this planet and now they are just sitting back watching us evolve,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

The world Is Unfolding As It Should.,,.,.,.,.,.,

...,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,with a smile -

 

[ATP]

You might want to rethink this. The Lord I know; is the same Lord\God I knew as a child. My God; i.e. Allah in Arabic, something in Hebrew Lord\God in English, seeded this planet and now they are just sitting back watching us evolve

one way or another

Hi toold. Re-think what. What are you disagreeing with.

 

[tooldtocare]

How do you see it-?

just asking -

 

[ATP]

How do you see it-?

just asking -

God gives us free will to choose Him.

 

[newbirth]

God gives us free will to choose Him.

where is your scripture saying that????


Acts 17:29-31King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[DPMartin]

God gives us free will to choose Him.

Are you saying that in your own judgement of what is good, or good for you, you choose God? Are you saying that it’s God’s will that you should judge Him? And that He accepts your judgement of Him because you choose Him? Do you expect us to believe that God is happy to have you, because you judged that He is good?

 

[ATP]

where is your scripture saying that????
Acts 17:29-31King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

..and will all men repent around the world? no they won't. Matt 22:14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, Rev 20:15 NIV.

 

[ATP]

Are you saying that in your own judgement of what is good, or good for you, you choose God?

Yes, I choose God. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior ten years ago. Rom 10:9-10.

 

[DPMartin]

You might want to rethink this. The Lord I know; is the same Lord\God I knew as a child. My God; i.e. Allah in Arabic, something in Hebrew Lord\God in English, seeded this planet and now they are just sitting back watching us evolve,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

The god referred to as"allah" the god of Muhammad, that started Islam is not the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel. No matter who is trying to tell you otherwise. Muhammad’s god was in that building in Mecca Muslims parade around at a certain time of the year. Some research has found it to be a moon god of sorts.
So in reference to the scriptures understood as the Bible and the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob there is no rethinking necessary as per your posting is there tooldtocare?

 

[tooldtocare]

The god referred to as"allah" the god of Muhammad, that started Islam is not the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel.

Islam has the Ten Commandments too

As for Moses:
(Exo 2:11 KJV) And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
(Exo 2:12 KJV) And he looked this way and that way , and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

Moses was a murderer

BTW After Moses murders this man the pharaoh tried to catch Moses for this murder so Moses flees taking his followers with him marking the beginning of the great exiodus