From the pen of Ellen White

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amigo de christo

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It's easy enough to find official statements from the church to clarify this, but folks seem to be obsessed with what Mrs. White says about everything so:

"No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast."

Letters and Manuscripts — Volume 14 — Manuscript #51 (1899)

:hearteyes:
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i think she meant to say ACCEPTING and not excepting . The decree barney that is going forth
one which will shut all who conform not to it out of society has nothing to do wtih sunday .
ITS COMING and will come against those who are not ALL INCLUSIVE . MARK THEM WORDSWELL MY FRIEND.
those who wont hold a rainbow , those who wont say all religoins are fine but rather preach FAITH IN JESUS .
IT WILL COME AGAINST the true lambs . YES ol fundies like me , you will soon come against as they oust us from society thinking
i am nuaght but dangerous and a thorn to society .
 
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BarneyFife

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i told you already what my main problem with this ellen white is , ONLY you wont hear it .
It dont bother me a bit if folks hold church on sat
what bothers me is , THIS INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT LIE . But at least some SDA no longer heed it . I GOT HOPE FOR THOSE .

And you've consistently refused to give any evidence that the pre-advent judgment doctrine is false, or even to describe what you think it is.

So there's really nothing for me to hear, Amigo, except your repeated personal objections to some teaching that you can't or won't demonstrate.

I thought you had hope for me, btw.

:hearteyes:
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Mr E

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YOU WERE RIGHT . TILL YOU SAID ONE THING . THE jews focus on torah .
OH NO THEY DONT . IF THEY DID they would have BELIEVED JESUS CHRIST
for TORAH and the prophets , the law , POINTED TO JESUS CHRIST .
THEY follow this other new age junk kabbla crap . IF THEY TRULY believed MOSES
they would have BELIEVED JESUSCHRIST .
the muslims make the same claim , they too say and claim to adhere to torah and the law .
NO THEY DONT . if they were of abraham they would have BEEN as was abraham .
THEY DONT BELEIVE JESUS is THE CHRIST , OR THE SON OF GOD . THEY are ANTI CHRIST
as is anyone else whether jew or gentile WHo DENIES HIM AS THE CHRIST .
THIS IS THAT WHICH IS OF ANTI CHRIST WHICH BY ALL INCLUSIVE IS TAKING THE HEARTS OF ALL CAPTIVE TO A LIE .
WE BETTER WATCH OUT CAUSE IT IS ALL OVER CHRISTENDOM AS WELL .

News flash. The Jews focus on Torah.
 
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BarneyFife

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i think she meant to say ACCEPTING and not excepting . The decree barney that is going forth
one which will shut all who conform not to it out of society has nothing to do wtih sunday .
ITS COMING and will come against those who are not ALL INCLUSIVE . MARK THEM WORDSWELL MY FRIEND.
those who wont hold a rainbow , those who wont say all religoins are fine but rather preach FAITH IN JESUS .
IT WILL COME AGAINST the true lambs . YES ol fundies like me , you will soon come against as they oust us from society thinking
i am nuaght but dangerous and a thorn to society .

How utterly ironic

:hearteyes:
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The Learner

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The Allegation



In 1981, for instance, Delbert H. Hodder, a pediatrician with a special interest in pediatric neurology, wrote in Evangelica (a magazine now defunct) that Ellen White’s visions were “consistent with what is now known as partial-complex or psychomotor seizures.”2 Four years later Molleurus Couperus, a retired dermatologist, made a similar allegation in an article in Adventist Currents when he said that Ellen White’s visions were due to “temporal lobe epilepsy.”3

Mrs. White herself. It reads as follows:



I turned to see how far she [the angry schoolmate] was behind me, and as I turned, the stone hit me on my nose. I fell senseless. When I revived, I found myself in a merchant’s store, the blood streaming from my nose, my garments covered with blood, and a large stream of blood on the floor.

A kind stranger offered to take me home in his carriage. I knew not how weak I was, and told him I should greatly soil his carriage with blood, and that I could walk home. Those present were not aware that I was so seriously injured. I had walked but a few rods when I grew dizzy and faint. My twin sister and my schoolmate carried me home. I have no recollection of anything for some time after the accident. My mother says that I noticed nothing, but lay in a stupid state for three weeks....

As I aroused to consciousness, it seemed to me that I had been asleep. I was not aware of the accident, and knew not the cause of my sickness. 6
Ellen White states that her recovery from her accident was considered to be “very doubtful” due to loss of “so much blood.” 17 That this loss of blood must have been considerable is borne out by the fact that when she regained consciousness her “garments were covered with blood, which was pouring from [her] nose and streaming over the floor” and the fact that when she tried to walk, she “grew faint and dizzy” and had to be carried home by her sister and her schoolmate. 18



Physicians generally recognize that profuse bleeding into the throat, during even a brief period of unconsciousness, can result in pneumonia. For this reason one of the first concerns in the treatment of a patient with a head injury such as Ellen sustained is not the immediate effect of the head injury, but the maintaining of adequate respiration and preventing the aspiration of blood and secretions from the nose and throat into the bronchi and lungs. If these precautions are not taken, serious complications may occur. This was especially true in Ellen’s day before the discovery of antibiotics.



If, while she was unconscious, Ellen aspirated blood and secretions from her nose and throat (not an unlikely possibility, given the lack of adequate first aid knowledge in those days), she probably contracted pneumonia. Thus blood loss and pneumonia, not severe brain injury, is the more reasonable explanation of what she referred to as “my sickness.”



Tuberculosis was common in Ellen White’s day, and many people had an inactive form of this disease, which would flare up and become active pulmonary tuberculosis if some other illness or even some unusual stress occurred.



If Ellen had inactive tuberculosis at the time of her injury, blood loss and pneumonia could easily have developed into pulmonary tuberculosis. This would explain why she says that as a young woman her lungs were diseased 19 and why one physician diagnosed her as having “dropsical consumption” 20 —a nineteenth century term for tuberculosis.

Ellen G. White® Estate: Visions or Epileptic Seizures
 

The Learner

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The Learner

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Investigative judgement is a lie, here it is explained what they believe vs what scripture teaches

 

Brakelite

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Wow. Look at you guys. You look and sound like a gang, bolstering each other up and giving each other encouragement to get even bolder with your objections, all without any reference whatsoever to current Adventist scholars who can explain clearly and succinctly what we believe. But no. That would be way to dangerous to your pride and self righteousness. Just keep on quoting our enemies, of course they can be trusted to tell you the truth about who we are and what we believe.
 

Hobie

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Unfortunately women don't meet the qualifications for ministry over the Body of Christ
based on instructions given in the New Testament concerning qualifications for ministry.
My wife heard that from one of her Baptist clients, but he kept asking her about the Bible... quite the dilemma for her.. she had to let him know where to look in scripture discretely to say the least, but let him search himself..
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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My wife heard that from one of her Baptist clients, but he kept asking her about the Bible... quite the dilemma for her.. she had to let him know where to look in scripture discretely to say the least, but let him search himself..

She should tell him to go talk to the pastor and leave her alone.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Wow. Look at you guys. You look and sound like a gang, bolstering each other up and giving each other encouragement to get even bolder with your objections, all without any reference whatsoever to current Adventist scholars who can explain clearly and succinctly what we believe. But no. That would be way to dangerous to your pride and self righteousness. Just keep on quoting our enemies, of course they can be trusted to tell you the truth about who we are and what we believe.

So in your view... those that disagree with the teachings are Ellen G White are walking in "pride and self righteousness" clueless-scratching.gif
 
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BarneyFife

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So in your view... those that disagree with the teachings are Ellen G White are walking in "pride and self righteousness" View attachment 40641

It's almost clever of you to try to make the beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists completely dependent on what Mrs. White wrote about, but not quite.

The problem with that is that virtually no Seventh-day Adventist ever tries to defend a denominational doctrine with anything other than Scripture (just as she, herself insisted the state of things must be) and corresponding history to validate prophecy.

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Jay Ross

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The problem with that is that virtually no Seventh-day Adventist ever tries to defend a denominational doctrine with anything other than Scripture (just as she, herself insisted the state of things must be) and corresponding history to validate prophecy.

When trying to use history to validate prophetic words in the scriptures have already occurred, we all run into the same problem as Ellen White experienced. Having an understanding of the entitles mentioned in the particular prophecy concerned and the historical signpost that links the historical record with the Biblical record.

Now Ellen White's method of linking the Prophetic utterances with the Historical record is not wrong per se, but when the wrong historically recorded events do not match the Biblically prophesied events, then we end up with all sorts of problems with the timelines that are generated.

Now it is possible to use just the OT to calculate when the timespan of the period of time between when God created Adam and when the GWTR judgement will take place. Now I can believe that the calculation of this timespan is correct, but many others will not accept that possibility. Now I have not attempted to determine the actual year when this will occur with respect to our current Calander, because I know that there is no evidence that correctly links God's timeline with the timeline that man is using today.

So, if we have made wrong assumptions as to who the beasts of Daniel 7 are then our assumption when they appeared on our timeline will be wrong.

Now when some of Abraham's descendance returned to the land of Canaan 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac in their own strength, many people were surprised that the Fig tree had put forth new leaf buds after nearly 2,000 years from when Christ cursed the Fig Tree during His first Advant.

Now when we ignore the time span given in Matt 24:32 as to when the end of the fourth age would occur and the start of the summer season of harvest would begin, we try and use verse 34 that follows in our vain attempt to understand the End Time prophetic words of Christ. When the Greek term "genea" was used to describe an age that all of the future events that Jesus gave would occur, people have wrongly assumed that Jesus meant a descendant generation instead of and age which is a tad over 1,000 years, which is a season, i.e., 1,000 years, plus a little while period.

Let me use another example where our theological understanding is lacking.

There are theologians that claim that the Second is not referenced to in the Old Testament, yet I can find it in the Hebrew text in, Exodus 19:12, 21:12, 15,16, 17, 29, 31:15. The Hebrew word used here in the Book of Exodus' text is the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 2:17. תָּמֽוּת in Genesis 2:17 is associated with the Hebrew word מ֥וֹת, and it should be understood to have the following translation into English of, “you will die the second death,” because you sinned and ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.

Now if we can make such errors, such as with regards to the "Second death" not being found in the OT, then how much more should we accept that with End Time prophecies can also be in error and that we need to be very careful when presenting our opinions as to when we believe certain end time prophecies will be fulfilled.

Sadly, with SDA's record, there are many errors in their understanding, but so too, other denominations also have errors in their understanding as well.

We all would do well if we would learn from each other. However, we all would have to humble ourselves for that to happen.

Shalom
 
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Jay Ross

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Without specifics, I wouldn't how to address this, Jay.

:hearteyes:
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There are too many wrong signposts that have been used in the construct of her theories and timelines.

I too follow a similar pattern in establishing my timeline and my method of discernment can also lead to errors.

Why do you need to know the specifics of her errors. Does not good scholarship reveal these errors and their conclusions.

Ellen White is not the only student of the scriptures who have made many mistakes. You only have to consider our English translations to realise the many errors that the translations contain.

As I previously state: -

We all would do well if we would learn from each other. However, we all would have to humble ourselves for that to happen.

Please note that I was being fair minded in my post and asking that we all learn from each other and recognise the errors that we have come to accept that are leading us away from fully trusting God's word.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Does not good scholarship reveal these errors and their conclusions.

NOT for the followers of Ellen G White... oh no... they believe she can do not wrong and never did anything wrong.

Sadly these folks have made an idol out of her and you know folks are involved in idolatry when they get 9 times bents out of shape mad anytime someone points out something their idol has done or said that is in error.

So don't expect anybody from the adventist religion to agree that Ellen G White made any errors at all disagree.gif
 
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The Learner

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My wife heard that from one of her Baptist clients, but he kept asking her about the Bible... quite the dilemma for her.. she had to let him know where to look in scripture discretely to say the least, but let him search himself..
These four women apostles were Mariamne, Irene, Nino, Junia, and Thecla.