Genesis as allegory? - History versus allegory

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Mr E

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Are ya trackin' me? Am I making sense yet?

It's ALLEGORY!

It's a story. HIS STORY-- as experienced through you. It's about what came from Him, and then separated from Him-- and the adventure that follows to restore it all. And it starts in the garden. In paradise.

Just try to grasp it for what it is.... allegory.

(edited to add-- 80's music (not to mention hair) was the best)


 
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Wick Stick

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The Genesis story can be looked at in two ways. From two perspectives, if you will. For the literalists-- I have nothing of value for you. It will all sound like nonsense, because from a literal understanding it just doesn't comport. If you think (as the OP asks) that Genesis is historical and chronological, and some sort of play by play account of what and how things happened-- I can only disappoint you with my telling.

But if you can see it as allegorical in some sense-- then maybe this will be a bridge you can cross to a new and promised land. A new path, and a new journey. A new adventure for any pilgrim willing to pack a sack.

The story of Genesis can only truly be appreciated not as history, but as His story. God's story as told by Moses as best he could tell it, based on his understanding. God's story as His experience in, and through--- man.

It's primarily a spiritual account. This is a premise that has to be embraced to get anything out of it. And a premise that must be embraced to get the physical aspects out of you. As mentioned, the story is told from two perspectives-- one spiritual (the greater meaning) and the other physical (mundane and inadequate) -- it would be like the difference between watching a cinematic presentation on the big screen with surround sound at some theatre versus some sock puppets acting out the same play in a cardboard cut out stage with no dialogue included. It's that stark a difference.
Genesis isn't a single composition. It's a collection of works. It makes more sense to divide them up and interpret each one separately.

Several are allegorical. Several are not.
 

Mr E

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If you want to understand the things above, you must look at the things above and consider the spiritual archetypes. You must employ the spiritual principles offered in scripture to interpret and understand the spiritual concepts provided.

There is another way to look at things-- and that is through the physical lens. It's imperfect as it is incomplete. The physical is akin to a snapshot you might look at, while the spiritual reality is as a live and moving picture. Imagine taking a snap during Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia and using only that image-- thinking you have captured the film.

However..... the things below are indeed reflective of those things above. There is a likeness and similarity and a physical reality that is an image of the broader spiritual reality. Scripture presents the principle 'on earth as it is in heaven' and it's a concept that Jesus taught--- it's employed even in that most famous prayer where he taught his followers how to pray to 'our Father.'
 
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St. SteVen

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Great post, thanks.
If you want to understand the things above, you must look at the things above and consider the spiritual archetypes. You must employ the spiritual principles offered in scripture to interpret and understand the spiritual concepts provided.
Are there a couple of archetypes from Genesis that you could elaborate on? (you probably already have earlier) Post#?

/
 

Mr E

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Great post, thanks.

Are there a couple of archetypes from Genesis that you could elaborate on? (you probably already have earlier) Post#?

/

There are too many to list, but all should be considered or you simply won't get much out of it. It would be like reading any parable and considering only one aspect, when two are meant.

There is a duality for everything-- the spiritual reality and the physical representation, which is never exact, rather it is "a likeness."

The heavens above speak of the divine, the spiritual realm, while the earth below is a reflection of that reality above. Think of it like this-- as I've said a few times-- to get a glimpse of what is unseen, look at the reflection and you can surmise a few things about the object that "creates" the image you are examining.

When you step in front of a mirror you see an image, or likeness of the physical you. When you smile, the image smiles right back at you and when you frown, it does the same-- but the image itself is a mere (mirror) reflection of the real you and the image doesn't really have any true emotions of its own... it simply acts in accordance with the physical you and reflects back in the form of an image.

Yet, we both know that the physical you that stands in front of that mirror and that creates the image --isn't the real you at all. It's just the container of you. The real you is inside that container and it's your thoughts and impulses that motivate and move that outer shell that we call "you" and that is a part of 'who you are,' but that is certainly not all of you.

Now relate all of that to all things. There is the visible, physical object and for each of these, there is spiritual equivalence however-- whatever it is in the heavenly realm that has created that image, --that image will never depict the fullness of the spiritual in the same way that neither your reflection (your image) nor even your physical presence can match the spirit within you that drives your intellect, formulates your ideas, motivates your actions and moves your muscles to perform tasks. One-- though a likeness, is no substitute for the other. The physical copy cannot do justice to the spiritual reality.

This is why whenever Jesus taught about the kingdom of heaven he would say ---"It is like....." and he would offer something familiar as an example of a heavenly concept he was trying to explain. He would use a likeness to give us some idea about something invisible that we could never comprehend without the use of a familiar example.


In terms of examples from Genesis that I could point to? Perhaps the most important is the most overlooked. Jesus taught (from Genesis) about the seed, and he said of that particular parable that if you don't understand that concept of the seed, you are not going to understand any of his parables or what they mean, because that one is foundational concerning the kingdom of heaven. We have the benefit of having had Jesus explain the seed meaning to us--- so apply what he taught to the Genesis account concerning seed and you will begin a new journey of discovery and set your feet upon a new path, for the seed is an archetype.

There are many more. You introduced this thread speaking about that Hillsdale segment which focuses on the serpent talking. It makes no sense unless you recognize 'the serpent' or the snake, as a spiritual attribute--- or the spiritual nature that manifested itself as a man who seduced and tempted Eve (in the physical sense) but in (spiritual) reality- it was a silver-tongued spirit who tempted her in spirit and it's this spiritual encounter that scripture records in Genesis. Fun fact-- physical snakes don't talk.
 
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St. SteVen

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@Mr E
Those are some heavy thoughts. Thank you.
Reminded me of this for some reason.

Philippians 2:7 NIV
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[a] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

/
 

Mr E

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@Mr E
Those are some heavy thoughts. Thank you.
Reminded me of this for some reason.

Philippians 2:7 NIV
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[a] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

/

That's it of course. The one who descended is not the one who was born here. The one who descended, descended upon the one who was born here.
 
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Deborah_

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Great post thanks.
This is interesting. Could you elaborate?

/
To modern thinking, "myth" = "made up". But it wasn't like that in the ancient world. A myth then was a story that had been told in a certain way - a way that brought out its essence - in order to teach us how the world works. It might be entirely fictional, but it could also be based on a real event. Some of Jesus' parables are like that - there never was a "real" father who welcomed back his prodigal son, but the story teaches us something about God that dry facts never could.

I've written on how this might apply to all the stories in the early part of Genesis. You can find the links here:
 

RedFan

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To modern thinking, "myth" = "made up". But it wasn't like that in the ancient world. A myth then was a story that had been told in a certain way - a way that brought out its essence - in order to teach us how the world works. It might be entirely fictional, but it could also be based on a real event. Some of Jesus' parables are like that - there never was a "real" father who welcomed back his prodigal son, but the story teaches us something about God that dry facts never could.

I've written on how this might apply to all the stories in the early part of Genesis. You can find the links here:
Karen Armstrong’s book The Case for God expresses a similar sentiment. Have you read it? I heartily recommend it.
 

Mr E

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To modern thinking, "myth" = "made up". But it wasn't like that in the ancient world. A myth then was a story that had been told in a certain way - a way that brought out its essence - in order to teach us how the world works. It might be entirely fictional, but it could also be based on a real event. Some of Jesus' parables are like that - there never was a "real" father who welcomed back his prodigal son, but the story teaches us something about God that dry facts never could.

I've written on how this might apply to all the stories in the early part of Genesis. You can find the links here:

Hello Deborah-

I don't think we've ever interacted and exchanged ideas, but I'm pleased to meet you. I just clicked your link and am impressed by the effort you've made. Looks like more than 10 years of blogging, so you were indeed a pioneer.

With respect to Jesus' parables-- while he certainly 'made up' stories to illustrate a point-- they were true stories. They reference a greater reality-- where there really is a Father, who really did welcome back a prodigal son. To say otherwise makes him out to be something other than a storyteller and something worse. Myth, might be made up, but it must be true to be of lasting value that transcends the elements of the story in a way that promotes a meaning beyond the apparent.

I'll enjoy seeing more of you here and clicking through some of your posts and pages. (ps I work in orthopaedics)
 
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