Genesis as allegory? - History versus allegory

[Taken]

You have to look at motives.

If you're lying to commit fraud and take someone's property... that's a sin.

I would say that is a trespass of man against man.

My view, Gentiles perspective, Sin is against the Lord God.

Sin was for Jew, Violation of Jewish Law, as well as being Against God.
The Law has been fulfilled, their sin is being against the Lord, being the Christ Messiah.

Still in any culture men can and do act against men….Trespasses….Any can settle their own differences…..or Gentiles petition a court of law and Jews the same or take the matter to their high priest if the two in dispute belong to the same synagogue.

 

[ChristisGod]

The scripture IS the support.

But I can do better-- I can offer the support of the spirit who tells that spiritual story.

Except man was created and living on this literal/physical earth and God walked with adam in the garden. Heaven is not earth and earth is not heaven. That will happen with the new heavens and new earth where they become one.

 

[St. SteVen]

Except man was created and living on this literal/physical earth and God walked with adam in the garden.

It seems that either view comes with a lot of baggage.

/

 

[ChristisGod]

It seems that either view comes with a lot of baggage.

/

or just a lack of human understanding

 

[Mr E]

Except man was created and living on this literal/physical earth and God walked with adam in the garden. Heaven is not earth and earth is not heaven. That will happen with the new heavens and new earth where they become one.

Not exactly. God is spirit-- He doesn't walk anywhere. To "walk with God" doesn't require any actual walking at all. It relationship.

 

[Mr E]

It seems that either view comes with a lot of baggage.

/

When I have the time to do so-- I'll walk you through it. No carry-ons required.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:19)

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:6)

Emmanuel...... God with us.

 

[Bob Estey]

allegory /ăl′ĭ-gôr″ē/

noun​

1. The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.
2. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby-Dick are allegories.
3. A symbolic representation.
   "The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice."

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik

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Question about Genesis:
- Literal, or figurative?
- Fact, or allegory?
- Supports, or refutes science?
- Supports, or refutes archeology?
- Supports, or refutes history?

/

I tend to take the Bible literally. If I don't, I can dismiss the Lord's commandments as allegories.

 

[St. SteVen]

I tend to take the Bible literally. If I don't, I can dismiss the Lord's commandments as allegories.

Allegory doesn't necessarily mean dismissal.
- Do you observe the Sabbath? (a literal commandment)
- If so, do you do it literally as Israel was commanded to do? (seventh day, etc.)

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Allegory doesn't necessarily mean dismissal.
- Do you observe the Sabbath? (a literal commandment)
- If so, do you do it literally as Israel was commanded to do? (seventh day, etc.)

/

I observe the sabbath, but I observe it in the spirit that I believe it was meant to convey:

We need a day of rest each week. We can argue all day about which day of the week it ought to be. I maintain that any day of the week could be considered "the last day of the week," but I think that is missing the point, which is:

We need a day of rest each week.

 

[Mr E]

I tend to take the Bible literally. If I don't, I can dismiss the Lord's commandments as allegories.

I observe the sabbath, but I observe it in the spirit that I believe it was meant to convey:

No disconnect there....

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Allegory doesn't necessarily mean dismissal.
- Do you observe the Sabbath? (a literal commandment)
- If so, do you do it literally as Israel was commanded to do? (seventh day, etc.)

I observe the sabbath, but I observe it in the spirit that I believe it was meant to convey:

We need a day of rest each week. We can argue all day about which day of the week it ought to be. I maintain that any day of the week could be considered "the last day of the week," but I think that is missing the point, which is:

We need a day of rest each week.

That means you aren't taking the Bible literally.
You're following the Sabbath commandment allegorically.
(in the spirit that you believe it was meant to convey)
Can you see that?

Literal sabbath observance is far more than simply taking a day of rest each week.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

No disconnect there....

In other words, I think the Lord wanted us to get a day of rest each week. He wasn't saying, "If you don't rest at this exact moment every week, you will burn in hell forever." You might remember Jesus told us the sabbath was made for man, not the other way around.

 

[Bob Estey]

St. SteVen said:


That means you aren't taking the Bible literally.
You're following the Sabbath commandment allegorically.
(in the spirit that you believe it was meant to convey)
Can you see that?

Literal sabbath observance is far more than simply taking a day of rest each week.

/

I would argue that Saturday isn't necessarily the last day of the week just because calendar-makers put it there.

 

[St. SteVen]

I would argue that Saturday isn't necessarily the last day of the week just because calendar-makers put it there.

Nice allegory. - LOL

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Nice allegory. - LOL

/

I can't remember God ever saying, "This is Sunday, it's the first day of the week. Saturday will be the last." I think that was man's invention.

Anyhow, I would say I am sticking with a literal view of the Bible, though there is a certain amount of symbolism. When someone is caught up in deep waters, you can't take that literally.

 

[Mr E]

I can't remember God ever saying, "This is Sunday, it's the first day of the week. Saturday will be the last." I think that was man's invention.

Anyhow, I would say I am sticking with a literal view of the Bible, though there is a certain amount of symbolism. When someone is caught up in deep waters, you can't take that literally.

Bob-- educate yourself. Learn the difference between words such as literal, figurative, symbolic, historical, metaphorical, rhetorical, and allegorical. Right now you are talking nonsense and making yourself look silly.

You can't say you take the Bible "literally" when in the next breath you admit you don't.

Start with the word "literally" and get back to us.

 

[Bob Estey]

Bob-- educate yourself. Learn the difference between words such as literal, figurative, symbolic, historical, metaphorical, rhetorical, and allegorical. Right now you are talking nonsense and making yourself look silly.

You can't say you take the Bible "literally" when in the next breath you admit you don't.

Start with the word "literally" and get back to us.

Educate myself? I started walking with the Lord 50 years ago. It hasn't been a perfect walk, granted, but I think I've learned a few things.

 

[Mr E]

Let's start here>>

Genesis tells a story. It's not a historical book. It doesn't provide an account 'as it happened' like your Action News Reporter. It's one of the books of Moses-- who incidentally wasn't around in the garden of Eden.

An "allegory" (like a parable) is a story that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral tale used to present an overarching concept or principle. It isn't intended to be taken literally. You have to recognize it for what it is--- then you might enjoy and appreciate it, for what it is.

It's more than it appears. If you are reading it only in a literal sense, you will inevitably miss the greater, hidden meaning. The example often used is the story "Pilgrim's Progress" -- if read as a tale only of a happy wanderer, you miss the greater, highly figurative spiritual associations and the greater meaning of poor Pilgrim's journey.

Appreciate the story for what it is, and seek to understand what it means.

 

[Wick Stick]

Nice allegory. - LOL

I don't think his reading is allegorical. He's reading-between-the-lines a little, but his observance is still a literal day of rest.

An allegorical reading would be like those who read Hebrews and say they rest every day because they are resting in Jesus. They still have jobs; they're not literally taking every day off work.

 

[Mr E]

The Genesis story can be looked at in two ways. From two perspectives, if you will. For the literalists-- I have nothing of value for you. It will all sound like nonsense, because from a literal understanding it just doesn't comport. If you think (as the OP asks) that Genesis is historical and chronological, and some sort of play by play account of what and how things happened-- I can only disappoint you with my telling.

But if you can see it as allegorical in some sense-- then maybe this will be a bridge you can cross to a new and promised land. A new path, and a new journey. A new adventure for any pilgrim willing to pack a sack.

The story of Genesis can only truly be appreciated not as history, but as His story. God's story as told by Moses as best he could tell it, based on his understanding. God's story as His experience in, and through--- man.

It's primarily a spiritual account. This is a premise that has to be embraced to get anything out of it. And a premise that must be embraced to get the physical aspects out of you. As mentioned, the story is told from two perspectives-- one spiritual (the greater meaning) and the other physical (mundane and inadequate) -- it would be like the difference between watching a cinematic presentation on the big screen with surround sound at some theatre versus some sock puppets acting out the same play in a cardboard cut out stage with no dialogue included. It's that stark a difference.