I wasn’t clear?
They are from two different points of view. One tells the story from a spiritual (heavenly) vantage point and the other is told from the perspective of the physical realm.
But it’s the same story.
Genesis as allegory? - History versus allegory
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I wasn’t clear?
They are from two different points of view. One tells the story from a spiritual (heavenly) vantage point and the other is told from the perspective of the physical realm.
But it’s the same story.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
yes it's both.
Some is allegory, some is fact, some is literal some is figurative, supports science, archeaology and history.
Hugs
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...if I may...
I don't have a JW bent or influence, but man was created in God's "image" and "likeness", God speaks in "parables", brings about real life stories such as crossing the Jordan and entering the promise land that are a "foreshadowing" of things on high and to come, gives "dreams" and "visions" of real events--all of which are a form of allegory, and also biblical, and true.
How do those very biblical things fit with what you are saying?
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Refer to genealogy of Christ and decide when it refers to real people or allegorical people.
The Bible is literal unless it clearly teaches otherwise. The Flood is clearly literal.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Heb 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Amen
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
So...God didn't make the seas and the land giving them matter by His power and light--the source of all matter--images from His own mind made manifest, a revealing of things on high? Rhetorical -- He did.
What does that have to do with the Flood being absolutely literal?
Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I love Bible challenges! But I've never been able to find someone to accept my Bible challenge.
Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Jesus said so! He's always right.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the actual account of a flood.
But could it be POSSIBLE, that Jesus was refering to the account in the Torah as a prophecy of the days to come, that he was explaining?
You have Paul explaining the two covenants as allegory through Sarah and Hagar.
It doesn't mean they didn't actually factuall exist, but their lives were a prophecy of spiritual truths.
Jesus is explaining the days of Noah, more so than the flood, it's what they were doing, or not doing, that carried them all away.
We see these in many of his parables as well.
Are the parables factual? They could be. But he is giving them as lessons in principle and morals.
Moses wrote the first 5 books of the OT. Who told Moses what to write?
Was it the same Spirit in Jesus that spoke to Moses?
Is it possible Jesus spoke to Moses through parables and Moses wrote them as an actual account to teach the severity of walking away from God?
I'm not saying the accounts didn't happen.
Did a man go out to his field and find a great pearl and sell all that he had to buy that field?
Maybe. Why not?
Is it the story that's important or the moral that we should be learning?
Just thinking..
Hugs
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The thinking, Jack, has to do with the associations you make from what you read......and do I need to spoon feed you?
Genesis 7:10-12
10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth.11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
I'll stick with literal.
That would be the Christian Bible. That's what I read. You should try it.
I don't think you have anything I want to swallow. I'll stick with the Words of Jesus, the Christian Bible.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
The Bible is a Book of miracles. Most of Israel are heading for Hell fire because they saw God's miracles and still complained. I've seen miracles that most here would not believe. Satan has stolen the God of miracles from 'Christian' churches. Literal is the Narrow way.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
You want to hear a miracle?
I was driving in the center lane of a 3 lane highway on my way to work, in a tunnel under the streets of Boston on I-90.
My car stalled and went completely dark.
I looked in the rearview mirror and an 18-wheeler was a breath away of my rear bumper.
I closed my eyes expecting the impact, and that would be my last breath.
I opened my eyes and that 18-wheeler was a breath in fron of my front bumper.
It's as if I wasn't even there and the truck went through me.
I was a trucker for over 10 years. I know how long it takes to maneuver around an obstacle in the road.
I know miracles.
I was on a motorcycle going over a bridge in the left lane. To my left was the bridge railing, to my right was a pickup truck.
The car in front came to a sudden stop. Nowhere to turn, nowhere to run. No impact. I don't know how, but there was no accident.
I know miracles.
I Was living with a drug addict. He asked if I wanted to shoot up. I was 17. I said sure.
The needle wouldn't work. He said he'd get another. I said nevermind I changed my mind.
So he shot up and overdosed and ended up in the hospital.
I seen miracles.
Hugs