Genesis as allegory? - History versus allegory

[Jack]

I have answered your question.....you haven't heard it ....or is it, you can't hear it?

So tell us some Bible that you believe is the Word of God. How about these?

2 Kings 17:25
25 They did not fear the LORD; therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which killed some of them.

Genesis 19:24-25
24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.
25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

2 Peter 2:4-6
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

 

[quietthinker]

So tell us some Bible that you believe is the Word of God.

Proverbs 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

 

[Jack]

Proverbs 26:4-5
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

You believe that's God's written Word? Tell us some more. How about the ones I quoted? Please, no more smokescreens and evading.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Logos (“reason”) was the pragmatic mode of thought that enabled people to function effectively in the world. It had, therefore, to correspond accurately to external reality. People have always needed logos to make an efficient weapon, organize their societies, or plan an expedition. Logos was forward-looking, continually on the lookout for new ways of controlling the environment, improving old insights, or inventing something fresh. Logos was essential to the survival of our species. But it had its limitations: it could not assuage human grief or find ultimate meaning in life’s struggles. For that people turned to mythos or “myth.”

Terrific post, thanks.
This bit seems foundational in understanding how the ancients saw and used these things.

It seems reasonable that they could reference myths as examples without qualifying them as historically factual.

I'll check out Karen Armstrong. (The Case for God)
Several videos came up on YouTube in a quick search.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Moses was doing what God had put him in charge of, until Jethro came and brought with him ordinances and judges.
Being mindful that Jethro was a Priest of Midian and Aaron, Moses brother was given the Priesthood of Israel. Could there have been some jealousy there?

That's interesting.
I always took the story to be as good advice from Jethro.
Which seems to be the standard interpretation.
Advice which still seems very applicable today.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I have the IV Bible. (Inerrant Version)

LOL
Maybe you could hook us up?



/

 

[RedFan]

I love Bible challenges! But I've never been able to find someone to accept my Bible challenge.

Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Jesus said so! He's always right.

@Jack, if you will permit me to add my $0.02:

Just because Jesus -- the master of the parable -- referenced the Flood in making a point to his audience is not proof that the Flood occurred precisely as Genesis recounts. All we can safely conclude is that Jesus understood the audience's familiarity with the Genesis story, and used it for a teaching moment.

 

[Jack]

@Jack, if you will permit me to add my $0.02:

Just because Jesus -- the master of the parable -- referenced the Flood in making a point to his audience is not proof that the Flood occurred precisely as Genesis recounts. All we can safely conclude is that Jesus understood the audience's familiarity with the Genesis story, and used it for a teaching moment.

Nah. The Bible confirms the Genesis Flood as literal. To call Jesus and the Bible liars won't go well on Judgment Day.

 

[RedFan]

Nah. The Bible confirms the Genesis Flood as literal. To call Jesus and the Bible liars won't go well on Judgment Day.

I didn't call Jesus a liar. Reference to allegories and parables is not lying. Please re-read my post with more care.

 

[Jack]

I didn't call Jesus a liar. Reference to allegories and parables is not lying. Please re-read my post with more care.

"Allegories, symbolic and parables" is JW language as they ATTACK our Christian Bible.

 

[RedFan]

"Allegories and parables" is JW language as they ATTACK our Christian Bible.

I am not a Jehovah's Witness.

 

[Jack]

I am not a Jehovah's Witness.

You're fortunate! But you're still preaching JW opinions.

 

[RedFan]

You're fortunate! But you're still preaching JW opinions.

Well, sometimes a kernel of truth can be found in the strangest places!

 

[Ziggy]

That's interesting.
I always took the story to be as good advice from Jethro.
Which seems to be the standard interpretation.
Advice which still seems very applicable today.

/

The reaon I question is because Jesus questioned.
It is writen in Moses' law, Ye have heard it said,
not only bringing to attention who's law it was in the name of, being Moses, and not His Father's or God's,
but even reversing some of them.
Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:27
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say... and Jesus is speaking on behalf of the Father, not Moses.
So....

That's why I question who counciled Moses and told him to write it in a book?
If God wanted to he could of written them all in stone with his own finger. Which he did with the Ten.

I don't question the truth in the bible. I question the motive of the one writing in it and saying God said, when he didn't say.

A lot of people say there are contradictions in the bible. I haven't found any. I find both truth and lies. Not that the bible lies, but it reveals lies. So here is what the Prophet Ezekiel wrote:

Eze 36:16
Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 36:17
Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
Eze 36:18
Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
Eze 36:19
And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
Eze 36:20
And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
Eze 36:21
But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

So for example from another thread concerning the commandments and taking God's name in vain,
I would point to this verse 20 above. They took the name of the Lord upon themsleves and they didn't walk in his ways, they walked in their own vanity. Thou shalt not take the Lord thy God's name in vain, for he shall not find them guiltless who takes his name in vain.

And this they did.

And this we do, when we call ourselves Christians and don't walk the walk that Jesus walked. Amen?

What was their way if they professed to walk in the law? Whose law? Moses, Jethro, God's.
If it was God's why a need to change it?
God never changes.

just thinking
Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

What was their way if they professed to walk in the law? Whose law? Moses, Jethro, God's.
If it was God's why a need to change it?
God never changes.

Another great post, thanks.
In reference to this bit, I'd be curious to get your reaction to this topic I wrote.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

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[RedFan]

A lot of people say there are contradictions in the bible. I haven't found any.

I have. But they are generally on irrelevant factual points, not on the basic theological points.

 

[Mr E]

DNA scientists traced DNA back to there being one original pair.

Have you studied this extensively? (asking out of curiosity as it's an interest of mine)

 

[Mr E]

Good post, thanks.
There are theories that Moses got scrolls from his father-in-law that were used as source material for the books of Moses.

/ @Wick Stick

He grew up in Pharaoh's household and was educated in Egypt. From there he learned from his father-in-law, a pagan priest.

This is the guy who gave us Genesis.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Have you studied this extensively? (asking out of curiosity as it's an interest of mine)

No, only in how science crosses path with the truth of God's word.

 

[ScottA]

What does that have to do with the Flood being absolutely literal?

Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

What is "literal" in this world certainly seems literal from this perspective, but that which is of God is not so measured. In the book of Revelation it is indicated that there is a difference in how men measure compared with how God measures: "The angel measured the wall using human measurement." Indeed, from the beginning, mankind made of the same elements of all this would-be "literal" universe, is stated as an "image." And it is matter that makes it so--matter that is written to be "dissolved." The difference in the would-be literal things of this world and that of God, is as different as and described as. what is "seen" compared with what is "unseen", and "so is everyone born of the spirit." All of which means there is a translation of what is actually real or "literal" with God...in to this which is biblically described as being the opposite.

So, it is one thing to take in the images that God has made for our viewing before moving on to what is actually "literal" with God, but quite another to make the things of this world the basis for what is and what is not actually "literal."