Getting drunk in the spirit "Biblically"

[Lambano]

Like any True and good thing in the church, Satan has a way of perverting it using his tares among the wheat. Whether that is fundamentalism being turned into textualism, or Pentecostalism being turned into a "rap concert". There is good and bad in both sides, and discernment is needed. What I have come to see is that the fundamentalists need what the Pentecostals know and vice versa, instead of pitting one side against the other we can learn from each other what the other is lacking, as we are all part of the same Body.

You've pointed out one of the problems with denominationalism. Birds of a feather tend to flock together, so we Methodists got mostly folks with the "helps" and "administration" gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28). We need to shuffle the deck so that every church has a healthy mix of the gifts. I don't know how to fix that. I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service (is "drunk" really an accurate description of what goes on in worship?), and I've heard charismatics consider a "decent and in order" worship service to be cold and sterile.

But maybe being "comfortable" is part of the problem.

[Epilogue: Isn't it odd that I don't think I'd be comfortable in a Charismatic worship setting, yet I envy those who have the more visible charismata? I realized in retrospect that this is just ignorance on my part, having never been to an actual service. I need to attend one to see first hand what this "drunkenness" thread is all about. I hope someday to be mature enough to be comfortable worshipping anywhere where Jesus's name is honored.]

 

[farouk]

You've pointed out one of the problems with denominationalism. Birds of a feather tend to flock together, so we Methodists got mostly folks with the "helps" and "administration" gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28). We need to shuffle the deck so that every church has a healthy mix of the gifts. I don't know how to fix that. I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service (is "drunk" really an accurate description of what goes on in worship?), and I've heard charismatics consider a "decent and in order" worship service to be cold and dead.

@Lambano I agree with the premise of your question; true worship - according to John 4 - is 'in spirit and in truth'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We need to shuffle the deck so that every church has a healthy mix of the gifts. I don't know how to fix that.

That is the problem.
In the independent churches only the pastor can fix this. Because it seems pastors in those kinds of churches focus the whole ministry of the church on one thing and guide the congregation into that one thing. Usually evangelism. When he should be stirring up and encouraging all the gifts and ministries of the body of Christ.
In our mainstream denominations the pastor can't really do much since he's toeing the line for his denomination. I mean, that's what they're paying him to do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service (is "drunk" really an accurate description of what goes on in worship?)

It's the gladness of heart and the carefree feeling like when one is drunk on wine that relates well to being 'drunk' in the Spirit. This goofball stuff that gets all the press in recent years has been correctly identified, IMO, as the Kundalini spirit of far east religions. Apparently, it came into the church through the ministry of John Wimber in the 1970'. Not he himself, but through his congregation. He allowed it because he probably did not know it was the move of Kundalini demonic spirits. This should be no surprise given the drug scene of the time and it's connection to far east religions, particularly in California.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and I've heard charismatics consider a "decent and in order" worship service to be cold and sterile.

They are, lol.
No offense intended to anyone, but once you've been in the freer worship style of a non-denominational church it's very hard to go back to cold dead traditional church. The Bible makes it very clear that church meetings are to be participatory, not a solemn ceremony where you sit quietly and rigidly wondering where you're going to eat lunch after church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Isn't it odd that I don't think I'd be comfortable in a Charismatic worship setting, yet I envy those who have the more visible charismata? That's just ignorance on my part; I need to attend one just to find out what this thread is all about. I hope someday to be mature enough to be comfortable worshiping anywhere where Jesus's name is honored.

I don't think it's a matter of maturity. It's just a matter of finding a pastor that knows how to conduct a 'charismatic' worship service - minus all the Kundalini gyrations and getting rich junk. That's going to be tough, though, I think. You'll know you've found it when the Spirit of God falls on you and praise and worship just rises up and out of you comfortably and without coercion. And like I say, once you experience it you ain't going back to no solemn worship service ever again, lol!

 

[David H.]

You've pointed out one of the problems with denominationalism. Birds of a feather tend to flock together, so we Methodists got mostly folks with the "helps" and "administration" gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28). We need to shuffle the deck so that every church has a healthy mix of the gifts. I don't know how to fix that. I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service (is "drunk" really an accurate description of what goes on in worship?), and I've heard charismatics consider a "decent and in order" worship service to be cold and sterile.

But maybe being "comfortable" is part of the problem.

[Epilogue: Isn't it odd that I don't think I'd be comfortable in a Charismatic worship setting, yet I envy those who have the more visible charismata? That's just ignorance on my part; I need to attend one just to find out what this thread is all about. I hope someday to be mature enough to be comfortable worshiping anywhere where Jesus's name is honored.]

You hit the nail on the head, We need each other, just like a body has a hard time without legs or eyes or hands to be empowered to do anything. The Pentecostal movement though born from Methodism and the Holiness movements was essentially non-denominational. They were largely "outcasts" of the denominations who had gotten rigid in their doctrines, and as a reaction the Pentecostals went to the opposite extreme. So while they separated themselves from the stale dead worship of the mainstream denominations they opened the door to other spirits to manifest in their services thinking this was the Holy Spirit.

I Was raised a Baptist, and the most charismatic thing we had in church was the occasional "amen" in agreement to the pastor's sermon. It was not until I got older that I experienced the Love of God and the gifts of the Spirit.... By that I mean it is one thing to Know God loves us, another thing to experience his Love firsthand. Many of those naysayers who deny the gifts of the Spirit (cessationalists) Have never experienced the Love of God in this personal way. When You do, You will be "slayed in the Spirit" or "drunk in the Spirit" Whatever terminology you use for this is, It is an overwhelming awe of the presence of God. But you also have to be vigilant of the false spirits at work in these churches, which strive for sensationalism and Mysticism.

Revival is a non-denominational thing, that is what we are in dire need of now. It is When the church is of "one accord" that she is able to move by the Spirit in the World,

God bless

 

[amadeus]

Oh, I got into a tussle with Wynona, who you'd think would be the last person anyone would want to get into a fight with. It was about a ministry I've found helpful, but she found counter-productive in her own walk. I understand her position better now, and I think I learned something about human nature and how God grows people differently. I also learned that if I insist on choosing whose teachings I need to hear at a particular point in my life (that’s non-negotiable), I bloody well better respect someone else’s choices too.

Sometimes, yes, we need to learn to listen to others even though partly, or even mostly, we will disagree. That is one thing that a forum like this, which allows people of many even contradictory beliefs to meet and to speak freely, accomplishes. A sense we are certainly Not all birds of a feather, but in another very sense, we certainly are.

To grow toward God without the input of another man is possible, but very frequently it is through that other man that God is introducing something to new to us which we may really need.

What is the difference between a child and an adult? Does eating natural food alone accomplish that growth?

 

[amadeus]

You hit the nail on the head, We need each other, just like a body has a hard time without legs or eyes or hands to be empowered to do anything. The Pentecostal movement though born from Methodism and the Holiness movements was essentially non-denominational. They were largely "outcasts" of the denominations who had gotten rigid in their doctrines, and as a reaction the Pentecostals went to the opposite extreme. So while they separated themselves from the stale dead worship of the mainstream denominations they opened the door to other spirits to manifest in their services thinking this was the Holy Spirit.

I Was raised a Baptist, and the most charismatic thing we had in church was the occasional "amen" in agreement to the pastor's sermon. It was not until I got older that I experienced the Love of God and the gifts of the Spirit.... By that I mean it is one thing to Know God loves us, another thing to experience his Love firsthand. Many of those naysayers who deny the gifts of the Spirit (cessationalists) Have never experienced the Love of God in this personal way. When You do, You will be "slayed in the Spirit" or "drunk in the Spirit" Whatever terminology you use for this is, It is an overwhelming awe of the presence of God. But you also have to be vigilant of the false spirits at work in these churches, which strive for sensationalism and Mysticism.

Revival is a non-denominational thing, that is what we are in dire need of now. It is When the church is of "one accord" that she is able to move in by the Spirit in the World,

God bless

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem. 10:23

Who is our Director supposed to be?

 

[amadeus]

You've pointed out one of the problems with denominationalism. Birds of a feather tend to flock together, so we Methodists got mostly folks with the "helps" and "administration" gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28). We need to shuffle the deck so that every church has a healthy mix of the gifts. I don't know how to fix that. I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service (is "drunk" really an accurate description of what goes on in worship?), and I've heard charismatics consider a "decent and in order" worship service to be cold and sterile.

But maybe being "comfortable" is part of the problem.

[Epilogue: Isn't it odd that I don't think I'd be comfortable in a Charismatic worship setting, yet I envy those who have the more visible charismata? That's just ignorance on my part; I need to attend one just to find out what this thread is all about. I hope someday to be mature enough to be comfortable worshiping anywhere where Jesus's name is honored.]

Is the Comforter able to make us comfortable? Do you suppose surrender have anything to do with it?

 

[Cassandra]

You hit the nail on the head, We need each other, just like a body has a hard time without legs or eyes or hands to be empowered to do anything. The Pentecostal movement though born from Methodism and the Holiness movements was essentially non-denominational. They were largely "outcasts" of the denominations who had gotten rigid in their doctrines, and as a reaction the Pentecostals went to the opposite extreme. So while they separated themselves from the stale dead worship of the mainstream denominations they opened the door to other spirits to manifest in their services thinking this was the Holy Spirit.

I Was raised a Baptist, and the most charismatic thing we had in church was the occasional "amen" in agreement to the pastor's sermon. It was not until I got older that I experienced the Love of God and the gifts of the Spirit.... By that I mean it is one thing to Know God loves us, another thing to experience his Love firsthand. Many of those naysayers who deny the gifts of the Spirit (cessationalists) Have never experienced the Love of God in this personal way. When You do, You will be "slayed in the Spirit" or "drunk in the Spirit" Whatever terminology you use for this is, It is an overwhelming awe of the presence of God. But you also have to be vigilant of the false spirits at work in these churches, which strive for sensationalism and Mysticism.

Revival is a non-denominational thing, that is what we are in dire need of now. It is When the church is of "one accord" that she is able to move by the Spirit in the World,

God bless

I have never been slain or drunk in the spirit, and i don't care to be. The terminology reminds me of every you tube video I''ve seen where Benny hinn or someone throws his arms out and people fall. Or Sid Roth and his holy laughter. "Clear your mind". God wants us to control our minds.
I don't know what you experience and I am not judging you. ButI want no part of this. And yes, I do believe I have the holy Spirit. He doesn't make me giddy.He lets me know when I have been wrong, He helps me with bible study, and sometimes helps me give an encouraging word to someone.
I like a formal service. I feel it is more reverent.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a Pentacostal worship service

I assume you're using the word 'Pentecostal' in a kind of all encompassing generic way, but that is a very specific denomination. I got a glimpse into the Pentecostal movement by watching Ron Carpenter on TV (which I don't endorse). They do have an effective 'formula' (for lack of a better word) for encouraging and facilitating the 'fall' of the Holy Spirit on a congregation. I don't know if all Pentecostal pastors know how to do that.

I'm familiar with all this by starting out as a Christian in a local non-denominational Full Gospel church in 1986. They knew how to solicit the falling of the Spirit. I hate to use the word 'formula', but there are very specific things you can do to cause God to send a visitation of the Spirit to a worshipping body of believers, which is referred to as the Spirit falling on a congregation (He comes down from above, like on the Day of Pentecost). If this concept is alien to anyone I recommend reading about the ordination of the priests and the dedication of the temple in the OT. Like in Leviticus 9:6, Leviticus 9:23-24 and other places.

 

[Cassandra]

So He was called down on the day of Pentecost? This is just as bad as commanding God to make the communion wafer to be the body and blood of Christ. He knew he was coming. Pentecost was a holy day , reason being God knew his Spirit would be released to the disciple then, later on down the road, so He had the festival instituted ages before.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have never been slain or drunk in the spirit, and i don't care to be.

There is a legitimate experience of being filled with the Spirit in worship that has been misrepresented by greedy ministries wanting to make profit of the experience. They've pretty much ruined it for everybody who could have a legitimate experience with God through the Holy Spirit in heartfelt, joyful, uncoerced praise and worship. The key word is 'joyful'. That's what the experience is all about. It's emotional.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So He was called down on the day of Pentecost?

No, because they had not experienced that before to know to do something to have it, and expect it to happen.
But notice they were all gathered together, presumably to worship together. It didn't happen while they were separated in their own homes.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't know what you experience and I am not judging you.

Joy. That's what you experience.
You can 'see' the Lord.
You're literally experiencing his presence.
It's not a blind faith thing where you just decide that's what's happening out of obedience, like in a traditional church service. It IS happening. You KNOW it's happening.

 

[Cassandra]

Worship is deeply emotional. i feel this, but I don't react in the way that is being spoken of. I can cry because of what the Lord has done for me, or be moved by the testimony of another, but me not jumping around or whatever, does not take away from worship.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And yes, I do believe I have the holy Spirit.

I'm confident that you do. I have no reason to think you don't, and have every reason to think you do! But this is about the Spirit literally manifesting himself to you.

It's the difference between simply possessing the Spirit in you (John 20:22), and the Spirit overflowing and manifesting himself (Acts of the Apostles 2:2). I'm not emphasizing the wind and the speaking in tongues. I'm emphasizing the move of the Spirit beyond simply knowing by faith that he exists and is in you.

In Spirit-filled worship you FEEL and KNOW his presence in an overwhelming joy and peace. It may or may not stir up your gift. It may make you cry if you're prone to that. But one thing's for sure, you will have joy and peace. You will have power. So much so, it will change how you act. It will change you.

" 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking (religious ceremonies and rules), but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." Romans 14:17-18
​

Some people aren't going to accept this well and I understand, but this is to your relationship with God like making love with your spouse is in marriage. It's an ecstatic, emotional, and physical experience that will bear fruit in your life. Just like a husband longs for and is pleased by intimacy with his wife, so God also longs for this kind of relationship with his wife. That's why it's so maligned by the devil through evil people in fake charismatic ministries. The devil knows you're on to something if you're relating to God this way. He doesn't have much of a problem with someone's cold, dead liturgical relationship with God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He doesn't make me giddy.

What does make you giddy?
This is just another way of feeling giddy.
A good and upright and holy way.
"Peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" Romans 14:17
And one that pleases God!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He lets me know when I have been wrong, He helps me with bible study, and sometimes helps me give an encouraging word to someone.

All wonderful things.
But there's more. And which will make you more effective in your love for and service to God.
Like Jesus' promise to the disciples, you will have power when the gift of the Holy Spirit comes from the Father.