Getting drunk in the spirit "Biblically"

[teamventure]

I want to present that being in the spirit biblically is not what some folks make it out to be. Particularly that it's not losing control and writhing on the floor.

The very passage people quote to defend losing control does not say anything of the nature. In context Ephesians 5:18-19 says to speak psalms and sing hymns in the description.

And Acts 2, mentions speaking in tounges. Neither passage describes losing control.

Also, we need to take what the rest of scripture has to say about the Holy Spirit because scripture does not contradict itself. Galations 5:22 lists the Spirit's attributes and among those is self control.

 

[robert derrick]

I want to present that being in the spirit biblically is not what some folks make it out to be. Particularly that it's not losing control and writhing on the floor.

The very passage people quote to defend losing control does not say anything of the nature. In context Ephesians 5:18-19 says to speak psalms and sing hymns in the description.

And Acts 2, mentions speaking in tounges. Neither passage describes losing control.

Finally, we need to take what the rest of scripture has to say about the Holy Sporit because scripture does not contradict itself. Galations 5:22 lists the Spirit's attributes and among those is self control.

I like it. The charismatics who 'go under' the Spirit, try to duplicate the prophet Daniel and apostle John becoming as 'dead men' before the Lord, and then raised up by His touch.

'Losing control of oneself' is contrary of all NT teaching to have rule over all things of the body.

Drunk in the flesh is sin, and 'drunk' in the spirit is stupid.

 

[teamventure]

Thank you Robert Derrick.

I don't believe those particular charasmatics will have a scriptural point against this because the proper context of the very scripture they provide concerning the subject puts away their view. Plus that particular camp puts experience over scripture a lot of times. It is hard to take them seriously and have an adult conversation.

Shalom!

 

[Enoch111]

'Losing control of oneself' is contrary of all NT teaching to have rule over all things of the body.

Correct. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance*: against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22,23)

* Strong's Concordance
egkrateia: mastery, self-control
Original Word: ἐγκράτεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: egkrateia
Phonetic Spelling: (eng-krat'-i-ah)
Definition: mastery, self-control
Usage: self-mastery, self-restraint, self-control, continence.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I want to present that being in the spirit biblically is not what some folks make it out to be. Particularly that it's not losing control and writhing on the floor.

The very passage people quote to defend losing control does not say anything of the nature. In context Ephesians 5:18-19 says to speak psalms and sing hymns in the description.

And Acts 2, mentions speaking in tounges. Neither passage describes losing control.

Also, we need to take what the rest of scripture has to say about the Holy Spirit because scripture does not contradict itself. Galations 5:22 lists the Spirit's attributes and among those is self control.

This much I agree with, yes. As scripture says, "the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets," and if they can control prophetic utterance than they can certainly control acting stupid, and I've seen some things in my day as well. It's an over-attempt, by the spiritually lazy, to act as thought they have "received the anointing," when they're really just acting like a bunch of chimpanzees. People don't want to fast and pray for months and years. They want to play church instead, but make themselves look "anointed" at the same time.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you Robert Derrick.

I don't believe those particular charasmatics will have a scriptural point against this because the proper context of the very scripture they provide concerning the subject puts away their view. Plus that particular camp puts experience over scripture a lot of times. It is hard to take them seriously and have an adult conversation.

No, no. I'm charismatic, and I love having discussions on this sort of thing. What you bring up is correct. Much if not most of the modern "charismatic" movement is anything but that, and older charismatics know it and complain about it as much as you do. The gifts used to be real and genuine back 50 years ago in many Pentecostal churches. Now many are geared towards attracting young people, and they follow the megachurch model for growth (music and entertainment, with a little teaching thrown in), so most of it's just acting and fraud now, and it's why most charismatics have left the churches altogether at this point and meet in homes, or not at all.

 

[teamventure]

No, no. I'm charismatic, and I love having discussions on this sort of thing. What you bring up is correct. Much if not most of the modern "charismatic" movement is anything but that, and older charismatics know it and complain about it as much as you do. The gifts used to be real and genuine back 50 years ago in many Pentecostal churches. Now many are geared towards attracting young people, and they follow the megachurch model for growth (music and entertainment, with a little teaching thrown in), so most of it's just acting and fraud now, and it's why most charismatics have left the churches altogether at this point and meet in homes, or not at all.

Yes, thank you for clarifying, I wasn't meaning to lump all charasmatics together with a generalization.

Shalom!

 

[teamventure]

Thank you all for your replys.
Next thing to do would be a word study on the word drunk in context of drunk in the spirit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you all for your replys.
Next thing to do would be a word study on the word drunk in context of drunk in the spirit.

Actually, the phrase "drunk in the spirit" may be reading into the text, now that I'm looking at it. Speaking in tongues could obviously make one appear drunk, because this was what some said of the apostles when they were doing so on the day of Pentecost. But Ephesians merely contrasts being filled with wine with being filled with the Spirit. Interpreting it to say, "Be drunk in the Spirit" is going beyond what the text actually states.

18 Do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 5:18-20)

He mentions giving thanks above, which is associated with speaking in tongues in other passages:

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. (1 Corinthians 14:13-19)

So the teaching in Ephesians 5:18-20 is about operating in spiritual gifts (tongues especially), which can appear to make one look crazy or drunk. But these two behaviors are being contrasted against one another, not combined into the same phrase.

 

[teamventure]

Actually, the phrase "drunk in the spirit" may be reading into the text, now that I'm looking at it. Speaking in tongues could obviously make one appear drunk, because this was what some said of the apostles when they were doing so on the day of Pentecost. But Ephesians merely contrasts being filled with wine with being filled with the Spirit. Interpreting it to say, "Be drunk in the Spirit" is going beyond what the text actually states.

18 Do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 5:18-20)

He mentions giving thanks above, which is associated with speaking in tongues in other passages:

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. (1 Corinthians 14:13-19)

So the teaching in Ephesians 5:18-20 is about operating in spiritual gifts (tongues especially), which can appear to make one look crazy or drunk. But these two behaviors are being contrasted against one another, not combined into the same phrase.

Yes, I just discovered that it's reading into the text but you were a step ahead of me.
I'll post an article I just found.

 

[teamventure]

This article addresses the subject and mentions the spirit of drunkenness that could be at work with these things but I would add to it the possibility of the kumulani spirit being at work.

Is being drunk in the Spirit a biblical experience? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Hidden In Him]

This article addresses the subject and mentions the spirit of drunkenness that could be at work with these things but I would add to it the possibility of the kumulani spirit being at work.

Is being drunk in the Spirit a biblical experience? | GotQuestions.org

Yeah, the article seems pretty solid. Many Pentecostals would likely argue against it, viewing it as an attack upon Pentecostalism itself, but I don't think the content of what he is actually saying should be argued against. "Stumbling gaits and slurred speech" are not anything I've ever encountered in my experience, nor is falling slain in the Spirit, though with the latter this may be because I can withstand a great deal of the Presence of God without it effecting me. My wife has fallen out a few times, and I think even I might have my limits if His Presence were strong enough. But things like the first two would most certainly make one appear crazy, and Paul was specifically trying to head this off in his letter to the Corinthians.

If the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets as he clearly stated, then they have no excuse before God NOT to appear nuts and foolish.

 

[dev553344]

I want to present that being in the spirit biblically is not what some folks make it out to be. Particularly that it's not losing control and writhing on the floor.

The very passage people quote to defend losing control does not say anything of the nature. In context Ephesians 5:18-19 says to speak psalms and sing hymns in the description.

And Acts 2, mentions speaking in tounges. Neither passage describes losing control.

Also, we need to take what the rest of scripture has to say about the Holy Spirit because scripture does not contradict itself. Galations 5:22 lists the Spirit's attributes and among those is self control.

Yes that is correct.

 

[amadeus]

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose..." Acts 2:15

No, not drunk but out of their own control...! Are they not directed and/or led rather by the Spirit of God within them as they yield to Him? Could they not be the sons of God?

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

 

[dev553344]

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose..." Acts 2:15

No, not drunk but out of their own control...! Are they not directed and/or led rather by the Spirit of God within them as they yield to Him? Could they not be the sons of God?

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

Hi @amadeus, isn't that verse you mentioned regarding speaking in tongues?

 

[amadeus]

Hi @amadeus, isn't that verse you mentioned regarding speaking in tongues?

Certainly, it is about tongues but is also about giving control of ourselves to God. Consider the carnal man:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Who is to direct our steps if not the Spirit of God? What was it do you suppose that led King David to dance before the Lord when the Ark was being brought in...?

There certainly is a time to dance:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;" Ecc 3:4

When the Spirit leads us to dance before God and man, should we quench the Spirit?

 

[dev553344]

Certainly, it is about tongues but is also about giving control of ourselves to God. Consider the carnal man:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Who is to direct our steps if not the Spirit of God? What was it do you suppose that led King David to dance before the Lord when the Ark was being brought in...?

There certainly is a time to dance:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;" Ecc 3:4

When the Spirit leads us to dance before God and man, should we quench the Spirit?

Yes but David was getting the Ark so he was probably over joyed. I don't see that the spirit of God has ever made me feel to dance. Just the contrary, I felt reverent in Love and Peace.

 

[David H.]

I want to present that being in the spirit biblically is not what some folks make it out to be. Particularly that it's not losing control and writhing on the floor.

The very passage people quote to defend losing control does not say anything of the nature. In context Ephesians 5:18-19 says to speak psalms and sing hymns in the description.

And Acts 2, mentions speaking in tounges. Neither passage describes losing control.

Also, we need to take what the rest of scripture has to say about the Holy Spirit because scripture does not contradict itself. Galations 5:22 lists the Spirit's attributes and among those is self control.

A Person led by the Spirit is not in control of what He is doing but is submitted to the Spirit. As An example of this a person led by the Spirit may speak to a Brother or sister in Christ and not know what they are saying but the Words are coming directly from the Holy Spirit to that person... That is God with us Speaking through us to that person. In Fundamentalist circles this is known as unction or the anointing that is imparted to elders of the church called to Preach or teach. Often times you will hear a Pastor pray for the unction to Speak and preach. In other words it is not so much about lack of self control, but rather increasing in Holy Spirit control, that we are used as vessels of Honor for God. Self control hinders this from occurring.

 

[dev553344]

A Person led by the Spirit is not in control of what He is doing but is submitted to the Spirit. As An example of this a person led by the Spirit may speak to a Brother or sister in Christ and not know what they are saying but the Words are coming directly from the Holy Spirit to that person... That is God with us Speaking through us to that person. In Fundamentalist circles this is known as unction or the anointing that is imparted to elders of the church called to Preach or teach. Often times you will hear a Pastor pray for the unction to Speak and preach. In other words it is not so much about lack of self control, but rather increasing in Holy Spirit control, that we are used as vessels of Honor for God. Self control hinders this from occurring.

The verse in Acts 2:10-15 indicate that they were speaking in their own language, but everyone of another language was hearing in their own. No one was speaking things they didn't understand.

 

[David H.]

The verse in Acts 2:10-15 indicate that they were speaking in their own language, but everyone of another language was hearing in their own. No one was speaking things they didn't understand.

Has the Holy Ghost never Spoken through you? Have you never explained to a brother a concept from scripture that you never understood before but the unction of the Holy Ghost gave you the ability to explain that concept lucidly and clearly to that brother? Have you never heard of missionaries going to unknown tribes and miraculously learning the language of those tribes without the help of an interpreter? We are vessels the Holy Ghost speaks through to others around us, this is known as the Unction of the Holy Ghost, "speaking in tongues" is only a small part of this. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit.