Giants In America

[pia]

sounds like they had a direct way to commune with God?

and i'm out of time, so i'll just stick this here

MVP "My mind can always imagine God to be saying something which He hasn't said, but the Apostle points out that we have a more sure word in scripture."

makes a good point imo, that Word will not contradict Scripture, even if It might seem to in the moment sometimes. If some Word you have got seems to violate a commandment, for instance--does that ever happen?--more searching might be in order.

That they were the rare and therefore God was able to commune with them, was what I had meant to say, sorry.
I understand by now that people HAVE to have a written word to go by, otherwise they will by no means believe, and you know what? It's perfectly fine, but when people start spouting off at me, about what happened to me ( an atheist ) when Jesus saved me from the void, I just get gob smacked! Why do they almost ALL refuse to believe that the Resurrected Man/God is actually real? Not just in heaven, but here also........I do recall that it surprised me.
If only they would take my challenge and show me ANYTHING I have shared with them and others, which He spoke to me, which they cannot find any reference to in the Bible, apart from the one thing about not to baptize babies/children in order for them not to go to hell ( but which is actually in the Mormon manuscript, they came to my door once or twice ), but not one of those who keep getting at me, has done so...
My oldest daughter when she was much younger came out of her bedroom one morning, and said to me :" Mum, Jesus wants you to understand that it is not you they are rejecting, but Him".....She could have had no clue that I had been praying about that very thing earlier that morning, (I had tried to be part of a 'church' at the time), and when I am upset or in grief I have trouble connecting with Jesus in that manner.
Thank you for an intelligent post in this regard............Pia

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do they almost ALL refuse to believe that the Resurrected Man/God is actually real? Not just in heaven, but here also........I do recall that it surprised me.

hmm i think because what church has sold us tbh.

"Jesus isn't here at the moment, but He is coming back real soon in a big showy fashion, and everyone who does not believe that is gonna be sorry"

is a much better sell than
"deny yourself and pick up your cross, if you are the Body of Christ."

i mean who wants to do that?

 

[amadeus]

I certainly agree that it cannot be understood without the help of the Holy Spirit, but I cannot see it as Jesus' dead flesh, as He was resurrected ( His body also, which He is still able to show Himself in ).
I learned Jesus is real, from Him, and did not even get a hold of a Bible till 6 1/2 odd years later ( had been raised in an atheist family ). I got to learn later that is wasn't exactly the norm, but that is not my fault ( boy I have copped a lot of flack over that ). He certainly did not explain things in the same manner you just did, but it is not my 'business' to tell anyone how to believe. I just have a lot of trouble understanding why He is seen as someone not really that real, which surely all Christians say that they do believe.
From my own experience all I can say is that when I read the Bible and read of what happened to Thomas and Saul ( Paul ) and others, I got so very excited, as I realized that He had done it before to others also...Truly He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
I do thank you for taking the time, during such a hard time in you life.........Blessings Pia

Sorry to be slow in responding here, but my wife has been in the hospital for back surgery so that I have been occupied.

Jesus said,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:53-56

What is Jesus then, but the Word of God:

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

The Word of God [Jesus] became flesh. We think of his birth to Mary in Bethlehem, but think also what the Word of God is and where it is? It is contained within the Bible, but if a Bible is never opened or that flesh [Word] is never quickened [brought to Life]. This is where Holy Spirit comes into the situation for you and me. Jesus already had the Living Word in him. This is for when he spoke he always spoke his Father's [God's] Words. men inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote the words down. As they wrote them they were alive, but for them to be alive to a reader or hearer of those written words, they must be quickened. Reading or hearing the words are eating the dead flesh. The flesh like the unopened Bible contains the truth, but for the reader or hearer to comprehend requires that he/she be inspired by the same Holy Spirit that inspired the writer. For me the Holy Spirit is the blood of Jesus that he told us to drink.

Neither the flesh alone not the Spirit alone is sufficient for you or me to understand God's message. The message is written [the Bible], but it needs to be quickened [brought to Life] to be beneficial.

Can God speak His Word to someone other than through the written Book? Of course, how else did He communicate with prophets in the OT who never had a Bible, such as Abraham and Noah and others? We may not always understand everything about God, but we should we slow to put limits upon Him. I believe that in some things He limited Himself, but there ways around those limitations to encounter the omnipotent God. The Way He made for us through Jesus, His Son.

It is simpler than that when God shows it to us in our heart. It is more complex than that when try to understand it with our finite minds alone. This is a why person with the brain of an Einstein may never come to know God, while a below average uneducated and even illiterate person may know God very well indeed.

Jesus indeed was resurrected [brought to Life] after 3 days. The real possibility of becoming more like Him was allowed by the price He paid. That day of Pentecost described in the 2nd chapter of the Book of Acts moves that possibility for you and me to a reality. Now we can eat his flesh and drink his blood. Our life is not flesh of this old man, but the new inner man, the born again man.

 

[amadeus]

Not true, we need to know God, one can know God without the bible. The bible is a limitation man put on God, not a limitation God put on man. There is a reason why Jesus said,

Yes, one can know God without the Bible, but when one has the Bible, should he not use what he has been given?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

God has given Christians in some of the so-called more advance western countries, such as your and mine. If we have bigger brains, or better education or greater opportunities, or more finances, or easier access to the Bible, is this not the "much is given" for which "shall much be required"?

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Because if we know His voice than we know Him and Him us, and there we have teh truth because,

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

or as it says

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Its odd how one needs to quote teh bible to answer christians, but with non believers they are happy to hear about Jesus. It is enough.

It is not necessary to quote the Bible to provide the answer which God has placed in our hearts, but many people speak and say that they are something special and really are not. The unlearned or the babes in Christ who have had no more than the "milk" may well choke on the "meat
consumed too early. Time does belong to God even though men will often claim it as their own.

 

[amadeus]

I feel bad in as much as I have to disagree with you on this, the reason being that I had been brought up in a family where God or religion in general was a totally taboo subject. Then when I was 30 years old, I had what people now call a 'near death experience' where Jesus revealed Himself to me, after saving me from a place I NEVER want to get anywhere near again.
Seriously you could have knocked me over with a breath, because I could have never even imagined in my wildest dreams, not just that He actually was real ( as Christians had been saying ), but that He had the ability to stand there, right in front of me and speak to me, and a bit later I was able to touch Him, He is actually able to be solid also.
That first night this happened He must have spent close to 5 1/2 - 6 hours with me, and He patiently answered every single question I put to Him, so He most assuredly can bring LIFE and understanding to us, without the aid of a Bible ( I didn't even get around to getting one till ca. 6 1/2 years later, when I first joined a fellowship) . During these past 33 odd years since, I have had encounters with Him such as that 8 times in all, but many more times where understanding has come through the Holy Spirit or where I have just heard Him instead of seeing Him..... I am reminded that in the Bible He is quoted as saying :" My sheep heareth My voice and a stranger they will not follow." Turns out He wasn't being metaphorical there.
Sorry it got so long, and I sincerely hope we can be in fellowship, even if we don't see eye to eye on all of it....Here's hoping ! Be blessed in KNOWING Him Pia

Always, if we have something "good" to offer it is of God, no matter who or what we are. Jesus said that there is "none good but God" and so I believe it to be. Try not to get caught by man's definition of good or of evil. Look to what God says that good is or that evil is and go from there by following the lead of the Holy Spirit.

 

[amadeus]

@pia I greatly admire your bravery heart ...in being open enough to share your personal encounters with the living Lord. Once we dare to do that, we lay ourselves openly vulnerable and transparent , which not many are willing to do....lest they be hurt or scorned.
I somewhere mentioned elsewhere that we had a friend who also knew nothing about The contents of the Bible as a book....but was taught face to face by The Living Book Himself!!
Thank you...enjoyed your posts.
Bless you....H.

Yes, Jesus was/is that Living Book:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

The Bible is a help to become like Jesus, but the Book itself will not do it without God's help. For this reason we need the quickening [Life giving] Spirit. God has provided man with a fresh new start. Adam and Eve had the same opportunity in the Garden, but they cast it away and we as their offspring need to be born again. The new birth is not enough, but it is a beginning to come to where Jesus really is:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[pia]

Sorry to be slow in responding here, but my wife has been in the hospital for back surgery so that I have been occupied

Please dear Sir, so not apologize, I know it must be a hard time to see you wife go through this, and I can imagine what she has been through to get as far as even having the surgery, as I have been there myself.
As far as all of of the rest, I am happy to say that I was 100% ignorant when Jesus first came to me, and 6 1/2 years later as someone showed me in the Bible that what I was sharing with them, was actually in there, made me want to study it more, but I found that the more time I spent in the Bible, the less time I spent with Him, until I started asking Him specifically about what had been written.
I sincerely hope your wife's surgery went without a hitch, but it will be a lengthy recovery... Please give her all my love, I will remember her again in my prayers........Have a glorious day In Him Peace and joy to you and yours Pia

 

[pia]

Always, if we have something "good" to offer it is of God, no matter who or what we are. Jesus said that there is "none good but God" and so I believe it to be. Try not to get caught by man's definition of good or of evil. Look to what God says that good is or that evil is and go from there by following the lead of the Holy Spirit.

I do my very best to do just that kind Sir............... Pia

 

[mjrhealth]

should he not use what he has been given?

We are given the Holy Spirit, it is all we where ever promised. He is our truth,'

Joh_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

God always gives His best but men always choose second best. Yes we should always use what God has given us, it just that few do. But you have come a long way. Bin a while since I seeing you last.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

God bleess, hope your Wife doing better.

 

[amadeus]

We are given the Holy Spirit, it is all we where ever promised. He is our truth,'

Joh_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Yes, the Holy Ghost is the teacher of the things of God. The Holy Ghost teaches and leads us for we are unable to correctly lead ourselves to the place where God really wants us to be. Where is it that God wants us to be?

"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:19-23

God always gives His best but men always choose second best. Yes we should always use what God has given us, it just that few do. But you have come a long way. Bin a while since I seeing you last.

I have been around on other forums, but only just recently rediscovered this one.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

We need not the teaching of men, but as per Ephesian 4:11-15. God does give gifts to men so that they might help others to come to where He wants them to be. Unfortunately, sometimes men teach only their own doctrines or a mixed doctrine with some things true and some things not.

God bleess, hope your Wife doing better.

Thanks! She's home and moving very slowly. Right now the pain is worse for her than the lack of mobility. She is walking slowly using a walker.

 

[mjrhealth]

Where is it that God wants us to be?

With Him daily, it is the only way we can keep our lamps filled,

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

And that is where I choose to remain at teh expense of being called an idiot and fool for His sake.

 

[michaelvpardo]

That they were the rare and therefore God was able to commune with them, was what I had meant to say, sorry.
I understand by now that people HAVE to have a written word to go by, otherwise they will by no means believe, and you know what? It's perfectly fine, but when people start spouting off at me, about what happened to me ( an atheist ) when Jesus saved me from the void, I just get gob smacked! Why do they almost ALL refuse to believe that the Resurrected Man/God is actually real? Not just in heaven, but here also........I do recall that it surprised me.
If only they would take my challenge and show me ANYTHING I have shared with them and others, which He spoke to me, which they cannot find any reference to in the Bible, apart from the one thing about not to baptize babies/children in order for them not to go to hell ( but which is actually in the Mormon manuscript, they came to my door once or twice ), but not one of those who keep getting at me, has done so...
My oldest daughter when she was much younger came out of her bedroom one morning, and said to me :" Mum, Jesus wants you to understand that it is not you they are rejecting, but Him".....She could have had no clue that I had been praying about that very thing earlier that morning, (I had tried to be part of a 'church' at the time), and when I am upset or in grief I have trouble connecting with Jesus in that manner.
Thank you for an intelligent post in this regard............Pia

I think that some people work very hard at being "christians" and resent the notion that salvation is a gift of God's grace and that such works of self righteousness are sin in the face of Him who gave His life's blood for our redemption. There's no tougher nut to crack than self righteousness. The thing that I really appreciate that was made clear to me by scripture, is that those of us that the Lord has grasped right "out of the flames" so to speak, become great trophies of His grace, remarkable stories of His love towards people that have done nothing to deserve it.

 

[pia]

remarkable stories of His love towards people that have done nothing to deserve it.

Amen to that also ! I for one am super grateful I don't have to try to be righteous in myself, as I find that impossible......When I first joined a fellowship there was quite a bit of that in it, as well as other fellowships. Not good

 

[michaelvpardo]

Righteousness tends to be something of a state of mind. Unless a person is actively and intentionally doing what he or she considers evil, the person will tend to believe that he or she is naturally a good person and has a right standing with God. However, God gave us this thing called a conscience which either approves or condemns our actions in a given situation, and it's a rare person indeed who has never offended their own conscience, even if the act was as harmless as taking a forbidden cookie from grandma 's cookie jar. This offense to our conscience is a witness against us even if we were raised without the benefit of scripture because conscience is informed by law, even if that law is only a personal code. When our conscience is informed by scripture, knowing that scripture 's claim is divine inspiration, the burden of the conscience becomes such that the notion of a self derived righteousness becomes an absurdity, something at once laughable yet terribly condemning of itself. Surrendering the burden of a defiled conscience to Christ by simply taking Him at His word, is the single most liberating experience of man, freedom to serve God without fear of reprisal from Him, peace with God for all eternity (the nature of an eternal covenant of peace), and a supernatural love derived from His presence in the person of His Spirit, that enables His children to demonstrate mercy, forgiveness, and grace to others who clearly don't deserve these things. There is however a cost to us in service to our God and King, the hatred of a world enslaved by sin and deceived into rejecting the righteousness of our Lord.

 

[bbyrd009]

Amen to that also ! I for one am super grateful I don't have to try to be righteous in myself, as I find that impossible......When I first joined a fellowship there was quite a bit of that in it, as well as other fellowships. Not good

ya, that always leads to perfectionism.

we talk about righteousness, but we learn by mistake

 

[Helen]

Yes, righteousness is a 'being' not a 'doing' in the NT.
"the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...."
" As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.."
" But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested.."

Now that is something to praise the Lord for @Sword , you won't only find us "praising God" on the Praise Forum!!
\0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
That,btw is me........ praising!!