Gluttony

[Etienne]

Obviously DuckyBill is a good troll. Always avoiding the subject at hand and changing what is said.



OT:Gluttony is just as bad as being a homosexual imo. The obese see it as "am i not allowed to eat like this? its only food. food, hmmm... wheres that cake?"

Ill tell the glutton, homo the same thing. Scripture says that the life you are living is sinful and against God. You can be saved yes, but not by me or any other human. Its your choice that you will have to make. You know deep down that it is not right. Your choice. But remember that it is Wrong!

 

[Duckybill]

Obviously DuckyBill is a good troll. Always avoiding the subject at hand and changing what is said.

You really should pay attention. This thread is about gluttony and homosexuals. That's exactly what I have been talking about. Perhaps you are the "troll"?

 

[Etienne]

You really should pay attention. This thread is about gluttony and homosexuals. That's exactly what I have been talking about. Perhaps you are the "troll"?[/size]

And yet i do. The OTHER half of my post was ON TOPIC. and so was my previous. This will be my first post in this thread that is not on topic, and you were the cause of that.



Neshama out

 

[Duckybill]

And yet i do. The OTHER half of my post was ON TOPIC. and so was my previous. This will be my first post in this thread that is not on topic, and you were the cause of that.

Neshama out

Nothing you said to me was on topic so I guess you aren't really interested in discussing the topic, only name calling.

 

[Duckybill]

Neshama, If you want to converse with me then do so where all can see.

 

[Etienne]

You really should pay attention. This thread is about gluttony and homosexuals. That's exactly what I have been talking about. Perhaps you are the "troll"?[/size]

Do the other people see this? That is why i do not want to talk here.

 

[Duckybill]

Do the other people see this? That is why i do not want to talk here.

You did not address the topic to me. All you did was call me a troll. I am not interested in your PM's. If you can't discuss it here then STOP the PM's.

 

[Etienne]

@Aspen: Sorry for spamming up your thread, but Ducky INsisted we do this here.


This is what you pm'ing is about:

do you choose the create conflict in the forums on purpose? No one is ever right, except you. you avoid any questions that you dont like, change what was said and throw it back to the OP. You are acting like an incorrigible bigot. really.

yet in the gluttony thread, you made more off topic posts than i have and you choose to put the attention on someone else who made 1 (one) off topic post. Pa-thetic!

Matthew 7:3
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Are you afraid to converse so everyone can see? Obviously.

no, i just dont want to spam up their thread. obviously...

u want to create a thread for this, then go ahead.

no, i just dont want to spam up their thread. obviously...

u want to create a thread for this, then go ahead.

I was referring to discussing the topic. What are you talking about???

this:


do you choose the create conflict in the forums on purpose? No one is ever right, except you. you avoid any questions that you dont like, change what was said and throw it back to the OP. You are acting like an incorrigible bigot. really.

yet in the gluttony thread, you made more off topic posts than i have and you choose to put the attention on someone else who made 1 (one) off topic post. Pa-thetic!

Matthew 7:3
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Anything you have to say to me can be said in the forum.

why not just reply now? are you afraid to? obviously.

why not just reply now? are you afraid to? obviously.

I'm still waiting for you to get on Topic. All you have done so far is name calling.

i started this conversation via PM, you cant tell me what the topic is.

Im not talking about gluttony or homosexuals here. i am talking about your way of not handling questions and being really incorrigible. all you do is prolong a conversation in meaningless babble. most probably to get your post count up.

you are a forumer and i suggest that you try these tricks on another site.

 

[Duckybill]

Neshama, did you have a question about the topic?

 

[Etienne]

Yes, are you obese perhaps?

 

[Duckybill]

Yes, are you obese perhaps?

Wrong again.

 

[aspen]

Just that a lot of charges of 'gay bashing' by Christians are just the opposite, Christian bashing by gays for pointing out that gays are going to Hell. Can you prove anyone is a glutton? Anyone???

Actually Ducky, being a homosexual or even calling yourself a homosexual isn't a sin either, Can you prove any homosexual is engaging in same-sex activity? You seem to think that all gay people are gay activists - it is simply not true. In fact, you cannot know if homosexuals are engaged in same-sex activity without witnessing it - just like gluttony.

 

[Foreigner]

But being a glutton does condemn a person to Hell.

Really? Weren't you the person who said:

Calling all Christians! Next time you see a homosexual and you want to tell him he is going to Hell; turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell,

-- So they are going to hell because they are obese....but not gluttons because "being a glutton does not condemn a person to hell?" Priceless

Ah, but it gets better....

Who am I judging? I am asking why the sin of gluttony is ignored in the church. It is a very simple question.

-- "Sin of gluttony?" If a person is comitting sin, how are they not going to hell if they don't repent?
I thought the point that gluttony is just as bad as homosexuality was the point you were trying to make?
You have already said that homosexuals are condemned to hell if they don't repent.

Here is a common rationalization for the sin of gluttony by a Christian

-- There's that phrase again: "sin of gluttony." The sin you are proven to be participating in if you are obese (your own claim).

Ducky - what are you trying prove? You refuse to see what Rach has recognized........churches overlook this sin.

-- What sin? Oh, the "sin of gluttony." The one you said would not condem gluttons to hell, right?
However:
"Calling all Christians! Next time you see a homosexual and you want to tell him he is going to Hell; turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell" - Aspen

The problem is that obesity is never seen as a result of the sin of gluttony in the church. It is not confronted, nor does it bar people from leadership positions in the church.

-- "sin of gluttony" Now where have I heard that before....
Oh yeah, from the guy who said that gluttons aren't condemned to hell.
The same one who, in the very first post in this thread, implied that you can tell the gluttons (who are committing the "sin of gluttony") by the fact they are obese and said:
"Calling all Christians! Next time you see a homosexual and you want to tell him he is going to Hell; turn to your right and your left and tell the 5 obese people surrounding you that they are going to Hell"

Gluttons don't get a free pass? Churches are filled with gluttons and so are pulpits, Why?

-- Hmmmm....how do you know that those at the pulpits are gluttons? According to you it is because they are obese.
Ergo, since gluttony is a sin and sin causes you to go to hell, and anyone who is obese is OBVIOUSLY a glutton, anyone who is obese is obviously going to hell...........and yet you are concerned about people judging homosexuals unfairly?

Dude, you are making a joke of yourself.



Ducky was right. You clearly have a pro-homosexual agenda.

Your implication is that Christians jump all over homosexuals they know but give those who are "gluttons" a pass.
Your proof? By your own standard it is because you see Obese people in the pews or on the pulpits and you personally have not seen someone witnessing to them.

So according to you a self-proclaiming non-repentant homosexual, and a person who is fat are both automatically doomed to hell.

What a royal crock. Or, to use scientific terminology: you are absolutely full of it.



You are more concerned about homosexual "rights" than you are their eternal salvation. You know....the thing God is most concerned with.

You (frequently) accuse anyone who witnesses to homosexuals of being abusive and accusatory, while you yourself - by your own admission - do NOTHING to help keep people from going to hell.

If you wish to continue to live as an armchair Christian, fine.

But you really should lay off those who are actually doing what God calls them to do - witness in love to those who are lost.

 

[aspen]

-- So they are going to hell because they are obese....but not gluttons because "being a glutton does not condemn a person to hell?" Priceless

Yep! You got me again Foreigner! I lumped all obese people into the category as gluttons instead of making sure to separate out the 5% of people who are obese because of health related reasons. I guess I am just as guilty as you for condemning all homosexuals to hell without singling out the cognitively impaired and mentally ill folks who engage in homosexual behavior. Shame on us!--

"Sin of gluttony?" If a person is comitting sin, how are they not going to hell if they don't repent?

Ah the mental gymnastics of trying to justify one population of sinners, while reserving the God-given right to condemn another "Next up on the balance beam, the double negative!" Keeping twisting and turning my words Foreigner; like all of your attempts to prove your point; attacking the person, not the issue, is key.


-- There's that phrase again: "sin of gluttony." The sin you are proven to be participating in if you are obese (your own claim).

Let me clear up the water you like to muddy; once again, as the thread has progressed, I have recognized the 5% of people who are obese because of medical issues.

-- Hmmmm....how do you know that those at the pulpits are gluttons? According to you it is because they are obese.

Unless they are one of the 5% of people who are obese because of medical reasons.

Ergo, since gluttony is a sin and sin causes you to go to hell, and anyone who is obese is OBVIOUSLY a glutton, anyone who is obese is obviously going to hell...........and yet you are concerned about people judging homosexuals unfairly?

Yes, indeed you are.
BTW thanks for not including this quote from me:
"Now, am I advocating the condemnation of obese people? No!! I am advocating the same mercy obese people receive in the church for all sinners, even homosexuals."

It makes your negative assessment of my character so much more compelling.

Dude, you are making a joke of yourself.

Thank you for helping me practice humility by insulting me.

Ducky was right. You clearly have a pro-homosexual agenda.

Well, if calling homosexual acts sinful is having a pro-homosexual agenda, I guess I am guilty. Once again, my point, which is clearly stated in the OP is to highlight the fact that churches rank sin - gluttony (an epidemic) is ignored in most churches, while homosexuality (a sin practiced by a tiny portion of the population) is roundly condemned. I am simply wondering why.

Your implication is that Christians jump all over homosexuals they know but give those who are "gluttons" a pass.

My opinion is much more than an implication and is much different from having a pro-homosexual agenda.

Your proof? By your own standard it is because you see Obese people in the pews or on the pulpits and you personally have not seen someone witnessing to them.

Umm....is this a court of law or an opinion board? I base all my opinions on what I read or experience, just like you do.

So according to you a self-proclaiming non-repentant homosexual, and a person who is fat are both automatically doomed to hell.

No. Your statement reflects your bias - you believe all homosexuals are unrepentant and all 'fat' people (your word) are repentant. My point has nothing to do with Hell - the only time I mentioned Hell was to highlight the hypocrisy of many people in the church by applying their judgmental attitude towards homosexuals to gluttons - sorry it confused you.

What a royal crock. Or, to use scientific terminology: you are absolutely full of it.

Full of what?

You are more concerned about homosexual "rights" than you are their eternal salvation. You know....the thing God is most concerned with.

I am concerned about hypocrisy and judgmental attitudes in the church because it hurts the sinner and the Christian. Who said God is most concerned with salvation? God is most concerned with being in relationship with us and teaching us how to regain our true nature by learning to love again through sanctification. I am sorry to hear that all you are concerned about is wholesale salvation, as if it is a product that we need to sell to people.

You (frequently) accuse anyone who witnesses to homosexuals of being abusive and accusatory, while you yourself - by your own admission - do NOTHING to help keep people from going to hell.

I am not sure I have limited my disdain for abusive and accusatory behavior to just witnessing to homosexuals - I speak against it whenever I see it. By NOTHING, do you mean not confronting people's personal sin and inviting them to pray the sinner's prayer, every time I see them? I've clearly stated that I witness all the time and like St. Francis, use words when necessary. Doesn't carrying around all those strawmen get tiring?

If you wish to continue to live as an armchair Christian, fine.

But you really should lay off those who are actually doing what God calls them to do - witness in love to those who are lost.

Ah the smell of righteous indignation in the morning!

 

[Foreigner]

All that tripe to cover up the fact that you obviously contradicted yourself and you are more concerned about Homosexual "rights" and criticizing those that don't support them than whether or not those homosexuals go to heaven.

As I said, if you want to be an armchair Christian and not share the Gospel with anyone, that's fine. Stick with your strenths - whining from the sideline.

But criticizing those that actually DO what God calls all Christians (yourself included) is hypocritical, at best.

Accusing them of mainly witnessing to homosexuals and always in an accusative, abusive manner makes you a liar.

It is my sincere prayer that your circle of friends will be able to hear about the good news of the Gospel somewhere. Please don't interfere if they do.



.

 

[aspen]

All that tripe to cover up the fact that you obviously contradicted yourself and you are more concerned about Homosexual "rights" and criticizing those that don't support them than whether or not those homosexuals go to heaven.

"If attempting to discredit the person you are talking at by attacking their character stalls, simply re-frame the conversation"

As I said, if you want to be an armchair Christian and not share the Gospel with anyone, that's fine. Stick with your strenths - whining from the sideline.

"Remember, you can always continue to mount your opponent's character, after re-framing the conversation"

But criticizing those that actually DO what God calls all Christians (yourself included) is hypocritical, at best.

"If your opponents clarifies an accusation you have leveled against him, don't panic! Simply ignore it and continue the steady drumbeat of re-framing the conversation. You have plenty of time to reassert your position on character; remember, sticking to and voicing your view of your opponent's character over the long haul, will eventually convince your audience of your negative assessment"

Accusing them of mainly witnessing to homosexuals and always in an accusative, abusive manner makes you a liar.

"Another method often employed to win popular support is to turn observations and questions from your opponent into abusive attacks; then simply drawing a conclusion of your opponent's character based on your tweaked assessment of their behavior."

It is my sincere prayer that your circle of friends will be able to hear about the good news of the Gospel somewhere. Please don't interfere if they do.

"In closing, feign sincerity, while inserting a few well aimed, parting jabs - extra points if you craft the jabs well enough to reflect the poor character you have created for your opponent"


- Excerpts from Foreigner's new book "Winning the Battle through the Art of Character Assassination"

 

[rockytopva]

As I am a single guy I cannot work with church young people by myself. There was a time when we had a youth leader that I could work with. I would have the house ready with volleyball, basketball, cook-outs, camp fires, and would foot the bill. I liked to get special speakers to speak during the campfire and let the young people hang out in the basement (I have a walk in basement) and play games until they were ready to go home.

There was a girl in particular who was a tad over weight and very shy. I was always friendly but never attempted to 'minister' to her. There was a time in which I didn't see her anymore at the gatherings and I asked the youth leader what happened to her. The reply was that she had committed suicide.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.- Matthew 18:6


I would be careful on how I handled the topic of gluttony. I think the best way of handling the matters of holiness is to set the example. Had I said to that girl that she needed to loose weight and come to find out she committed suicide I would have been very worried that would constitute a terrible sin on my part.

 

[aspen]

I would be careful on how I handled the topic of gluttony. I think the best way of handling the matters of holiness is to set the example. Had I said to that girl that she needed to loose weight and come to find out she committed suicide I would have been very worried that would constitute a terrible sin on my part.

Great and troubling point. Gluttony and homosexuality are both long term problems, which require a response of unconditional acceptance and love. Over time, the HS will help the person recognize the problem and provide them with a way out.

Last night at a Bible study I attend, a good friend of mine disclosed that he has cancer - it is a serious form of the disease and he became very upset about it when he was addressing the group. We surrounded him and prayed for healing and direction from God on how to support and love our friend. At one point, a person asked our friend if he knew what caused the cancer; and then, if he had gone to the doctor for check ups regularly; and finally, if their was any unconfessed sin in his life. Now, he was well meaning, but in an attempt to understand and possibly comfort everyone in the room by revealing the source of the sickness, he, instead, revealed himself to be a royal ass. His mistake was valuing information over the person who was hurting. Every time we value doctrine, theology, the Bible, our own worldview, information, products, food, alcohol, or anything else over people, we are in danger of legalism. It is interesting - the sin of idolatry is valuing an object more than God; the sin of legalism is valuing a belief system over people.

 

[rockytopva]

Great and troubling point. Gluttony and homosexuality are both long term problems, which require a response of unconditional acceptance and love. Over time, the HS will help the person recognize the problem and provide them with a way out.

Last night at a Bible study I attend, a good friend of mine disclosed that he has cancer - it is a serious form of the disease and he became very upset about it when he was addressing the group. We surrounded him and prayed for healing and direction from God on how to support and love our friend. At one point, a person asked our friend if he knew what caused the cancer; and then, if he had gone to the doctor for check ups regularly; and finally, if their was any unconfessed sin in his life. Now, he was well meaning, but in an attempt to understand and possibly comfort everyone in the room by revealing the source of the sickness, he, instead, revealed himself to be a royal ass. His mistake was valuing information over the person who was hurting. Every time we value doctrine, theology, the Bible, our own worldview, information, products, food, alcohol, or anything else over people, we are in danger of legalism. It is interesting - the sin of idolatry is valuing an object more than God; the sin of legalism is valuing a belief system over people.

[sup]13[/sup]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [sup]14[/sup]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. - Hebrews 5:13, 14

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;- 2 Timothy 4:3




Most people today cannot handle tough doctrine.

 

[Foreigner]

"Keeping twisting and turning my words Foreigner; "

- Yup, quoting you exactly, word-for word is the classic definition of "twisting your words."


Unless theya re one of the 5% of the people who are obese becasue of medical reasons

-- So the other 95% is going to hell right? Because gluttony is a sin.
Except for your post where you say gluttons aren't going to hell:
"But being a glutton does condemn a person to Hell." - Aspen June 22, 12:11am

And that doesn't even begin to address the fact that you assume the other 95% are doing absolutely nothing else to address their condition. You crazy mind reader, you! LOL


"you believe all homosexuals are unrepentant and all 'fat' people (your word) are repentant."

- Shame for you that I never said that - anywhere - ever.

I have mentioned more than once that gays attend our church. Some have repented and some are still striving to learn.
OBVIOUSLY you ACCIDENTALLY forgot that, right?

What I HAVE said is that regardless of the sin, if you don't repent you are lost.

Christians who actually witness to people point things like that out - since by your own admission you don't witness, that's why you are clueless about it.

You also assume that, except for the 5% you mention, obese haven't repented and aren't working on it.
You must be very gifted to know that.

You can tell that the 200 pound person at the pulpit or in the pew wasn't 300 pounds a year ago and on their way to 180.

You can tell that the person isn't dieting as we speak because you are sooooo gifted in this whole mind reading thing.

And you somehow JUST KNOW that no one is helping them address their issue(s).

Wow, you are JUST SO SMART!



"I am advocating the same mercy obese people receive in the church for all sinners, even homosexuals.."

- Yet another false premise from you. Is anyone here actually shocked?

I have seen great mercy for homosexuals. And great love.
Helping someone understand that Jesus loves them and they can avoid damnation is a classic example of love.

The homosexuals (and former homosexuals) attending my church are there because someone spoke with them with a loving voice not a pointed finger.

Not saying anything to them to help them avoid hell - as you advocate - is not showing mercy.


I am not sure I have limited my disdain for abusive and accusatory behavior to just witnessing to homosexuals"

- But you have. Your concern - at least on this board - has only been for the homosexuals. Not for others who are also lost OR your fellow Christians.



"By NOTHING, do you mean not confronting people's personal sin and inviting them to pray the sinner's prayer, every time I see them?"

-- LOL Thank you for pointing out your true cluelessness on the concept of helping the lost receive Christ via love and concern.
For example, you say:

"confronting people's personal sin"
-- Wrong. Witnessing begins with a conversation, often initiated by the person who doesn't know Christ.
The conversation starts with Christ, not that person's sins.
I understand your confusion. Having never shared your faith makes it difficult for you to understand how others can.

"every time I see them?"
-- Again, your lack of experience is evident. Many times witnessing involves a number of friendly conversations.
When the person decides that they want Jesus, then and only then do you help them pray for His forgiveness.
But don't worry, your ignorance on this is understandable.



Again, you standing on the sidelines is fine. You criticizing the people actually doing the work that God calls us to do, isn't.




.