God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!

[ATP]

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.... :huh: Addition is not subtraction!

So you're changing your mind. You now believe you cannot lose your salvation?

 

[ATP]

Are you going to die as Hebrew 9:27 states?

We've already been through this. You're confusing the promise we have now to when the promise will be revealed to us. Why?

 

[StanJ]

NON-OSAS is adding to the gift by saying we can lose it. There is more to do than what Jesus died for. Adding the term "we can lose our salvation" to your doctrine is adding works salvation.

No, that's what you're saying and I really don't think there's any such thing as a non-osas. The gift of Salvation is a gift of salvation. There is no such sentence in the Bible at all that says 'once saved always saved'. So I would have to say that you yourself, along with your ilk are adding to the Bible.

 

[StanJ]

So you're changing your mind. You now believe you cannot lose your salvation?

No she's trying to get you to commit to one point or the other and not vacillate all over the place.

 

[StanJ]

We've already been through this. You're confusing the promise we have now to when the promise will be revealed to us. Why?

Not confusing anything you're the one that continues to refuse to answer this simple question that I posed you at least a half a dozen times. What are you afraid of?

 

[ATP]

NON-OSAS believes a saint can lose their salvation. Am I wrong?

 

[StanJ]

NON-OSAS believes a saint can lose their salvation. Am I wrong?

As always, yes.

 

[ATP]

As always, yes.

So what is the point of putting the "non" in front of "osas".

 

[StanJ]

So what is the point of putting the "non" in front of "osas".

You tell us, you're the one that uses it.

 

[ATP]

You tell us, you're the one that uses it.

Ok, so you do not believe you can lose your salvation. That's good Stan.

 

[Angelina]

These passages are being used as metaphorical language. Metaphors and Parables are not historical facts. Jesus dying on the cross is a historical fact Angelina.

Even though they may not be historical facts that does not make them null and void. Paul is very clear on the meaning and intent of this passage. "Gentile believers have been grafted into the olive tree which is a position of blessing occupied by Israel. Because of the new covenant, believers have been grafted in by grace through faith in Christ. If the Gentiles continue in his "goodness". If they do not, they will be cut off. Israel can also be grafted back in since they are the original branches as long as they turn from their unbelief...

 

[Angelina]

So you're changing your mind. You now believe you cannot lose your salvation?

I think that you have difficulty in understanding that addition is not subtraction...meaning you can not say that something has been added to the free gift of salvation when in actual fact what you are saying is the very opposite ~ stating that something is being removed... :huh: Interesting....

 

[ATP]

Even though they may not be historical facts that does not make them null and void. Paul is very clear on the meaning and intent of this passage. "Gentile believers have been grafted into to the olive tree which is a position of blessing occupied by Israel. Because of the new covenant, believers have been grafted in by grace through faith in Christ. If the Gentiles continue in his goodness. If they do no, they will be cut off. Israel can also be grafted back on since they are the original branches as long turn form their unbelief...

can be cut off if they do not continue in his goodness just as Israel can be grafted back in, if they turn from their unbelief.

So you're using parables and metaphors to prove your case? Then I guess we all know now what happens after we die, because it's in Luke 16:19-31. Wow.

 

[ATP]

I think that you have difficulty in understanding that addition is not subtraction...meaning you can not say that something has been added to the free gift of salvation when in actual fact what you are saying is the very opposite ~ stating that something is being removed... :huh: Interesting....

It's a yes or no question Angelina. Do you believe you can lose your salvation.

 

[Angelina]

2 Pet 3:17 NIV - Falling from your secure position is about how weak or strong your faith is. The words "you should fall from" and "you have fallen away" in 2 Pet 3:17 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV is translated "ekpipto" which means to fall away, fade away, wither away or fall off from the straight course. Falling away from the straight course doesn't mean you can lose your salvation. It simply means that you're human.

Revelation 2:5 is also translated from the Greek word ekpipto.




Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, G1601 and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[Angelina]

It's a yes or no question Angelina. Do you believe you can lose your salvation.

I believe that people can choose to walk away from following God out of their own selfish ambitions and/or desires of their heart. Added: and unrepentant heart.

Now let me ask you a question...have you ever led anyone to Christ?

 

[ATP]

Revelation 2:5 is also translated from the Greek word ekpipto.



Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, G1601 and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Jesus is removing the fallen (church) out of its high place. Candlestick represents a group of people, not the Holy Spirit. For example, it's not saying God will remove the Holy Spirit from your body, rather it's saying God will remove the church as a people from your pride because they chose not to love Rev 2:4 NIV. The Gospel is of love, not religion. It's not talking about individual salvation, rather a group of people..

κινεῖν τήν λυχνίαν τίνος (ἐκκλησίας) ἐκ τοῦ τόπου αὐτῆς, to move a church out of the place which it has hitherto held among the churches; to take it out of the number of churches, remove it altogether, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent; or thee out of the candlestick, the pastor from the church, either by persecution or by death; or else the church, and church state itself, signified by a candlestick;

To be victorious, one would have to believe and trust in Jesus Christ as their savior Rom 10:9-10 NIV / Isa 29:13 NIV / Matt 15:8-9 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV.

Many will not believe that Jesus died for all their sins...Rev 2:7 NIV Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

[ATP]

I believe that people can choose to walk away from following God out of their own selfish ambitions and/or desires of their heart. Added: and an unrepentant heart.

Do these actions include losing salvation?

Now let me ask you a question...have you ever led anyone to Christ?

Maybe I have. Only God knows. Christians plant the seed, but only God can draw them in.

 

[Angelina]

Jesus is removing the fallen (church) out of its high place. Candlestick represents a group of people, not the Holy Spirit. For example, it's not saying God will remove the Holy Spirit from your body, rather it's saying God will remove the church as a people from your pride because they chose not to love Rev 2:4 NIV. The Gospel is of love, not religion. It's not talking about individual salvation, rather a group of people..

What I was getting at is that this same word is used in this passage.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, G1601 and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

So you think that they had fallen from their pride? Didn't Satan fall because of his pride and his many trading???

 

[Angelina]

Do these actions include losing salvation?

If you are unrepentant and you die in that condition...you are in trouble, believe me.

Maybe I have. Only God knows. Christians plant the seed, but only God can draw them in.

Well I have. I am an evangelist and it is from this viewpoint that I hold this position. Not based on theological studies but on working in this field for many years....