Just those 2 verses point out it is not about God foreknowing all people, it explains that those who do not know Christ are not the children of God. So the foreknowing argument does not apply to understanding who are the children of God.
God as heavenly parent - the dysfunctional view we inherited
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
What makes you thnk that I didn't get that out of scripture? Then you went on to say the exact thing that I said/was saying. You gave the scripture refrence so kudos for that!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I guess I threw in a comment which confused you, sorry. That's how I think. But again, what you then said, I was saying the same thing. We are on the same page. Sorry for the off topic comment?
I had thought when you said 'all of us' you were saying all human beings, not the Christians only.
Only believers in Christ today are the children of God.
Otherwise Christ lied when He said He was the only way to the Father God.
Anyhow good discussion as we know other people read these threads.
Are you claiming God created humans that he had no plans to know? Predestined for destruction?
If so, what a horrible claim.
/
"All" sounds good to me.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
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Why do you put those two together?
Why would Jesus being the only way to the Father prevent anyone from being a child of God?
Is the one way prohibited to some?
/
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I see what you're saying. I prolly could have said that with more clarity than I did.
Excerpt from the OP.
How does your view of parenting, or of a father effect your view of God?
If we are modeling godly parenting, our children should have a healthy view of our heavenly parent.
I'm thankful that I have a good relationship with my adult children.
But this meant owning up to some things that went wrong early on.
Fortunately, I have found that children are very willing to forgive. (in my case)
So, when I swallowed my pride, they met me more than halfway.
I want to hear from others about how they view this subject.
- What is your view of parenting?
- What is your view of our heavenly parent?
- How did/does your view of your own parents effect your view of God as Father?
- Have you projected the image of a dysfunctional parent on your heavenly parent?
]
How does your view of parenting, or of a father effect your view of God?
If we are modeling godly parenting, our children should have a healthy view of our heavenly parent.
I'm thankful that I have a good relationship with my adult children.
But this meant owning up to some things that went wrong early on.
Fortunately, I have found that children are very willing to forgive. (in my case)
So, when I swallowed my pride, they met me more than halfway.
I want to hear from others about how they view this subject.
- What is your view of parenting?
- What is your view of our heavenly parent?
- How did/does your view of your own parents effect your view of God as Father?
- Have you projected the image of a dysfunctional parent on your heavenly parent?
]
Excerpt from the OP.
I want to hear from others about how they view this subject.
- What is your view of parenting?
- What is your view of our heavenly parent?
- How did/does your view of your own parents effect your view of God as Father?
- Have you projected the image of a dysfunctional parent on your heavenly parent?
[
I want to hear from others about how they view this subject.
- What is your view of parenting?
- What is your view of our heavenly parent?
- How did/does your view of your own parents effect your view of God as Father?
- Have you projected the image of a dysfunctional parent on your heavenly parent?
[
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
There are two basic jobs of parenting: to give your kids roots and wings. Roots to know where they come from and belong to in terms of tribal relations and customs. Wings to know where they are going and possess the ability to get to there.
In human terms, the goal of parenting is to produce happy, well adjusted, interdependent, productive members of society. Therefore, like cooking, parenting has an end goal; guide the developing Being to maturity. Not cook and parent without end.
As a noun, one will be a parent for life. As a verb, not so much beyond sage advice, a priceless asset in times of crisis.
At that end, there is a satisfying equality leading to a role reversal. As the parents age, the child begins to care for the enfeebling natural decline in the circle of life.
On a spiritual plane, we don’t know how many levels of maturing that is. However, it is probably much most significant than 18 years here on earth.
Wow! Fantastic post! Thank you.
Do you see a connection between GOOD parenting and or heavenly parent? (God as Father)
Does God the Father also give us ROOTS and WINGS?
In my experience, I wasn't prepared for the WINGS part. I felt abandoned at one point.
Later I realized that it was like the physical parenting relationship. I had to stand on my own.
[ cc: @BarneyFife
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Of course there is a connection etween GOOD parenting and or heavenly parent? (God as Father) God is not FINO - Father in name only.
The child must take their first steps on their own.
Had a deep conversation with a good friend about her 2 children. Although she GAVE far more love to the oldest, he seems to not have got it. We have to receive the gifts our parents, including our heavenly father give us. So, while she gave less love to her youngest son, he received it more. Profound.
Ever hear the story of a father and son whose relationship was destroyed over his high graduation gift? The boy had every reason to believe the father was going to buy the son a particular car. Instead, he gave him a Bible. So angry, the son never talked to the father again. When the father died many years later, the son looked in the Bible. There was a check for the car never received by the son.
That must have been a very sorrowful moment for the son.
Agree.
Every child of God is unique as well. Each one's relationship will reflect that. IMHO
Some say God is no respecter of persons. Not sure I buy that.
I have mixed emotions about that one. (I hadn't heard it)
[
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Neither do I as the expression means one thing and not another thing.
God is a respecter of of persons when he sent Jesus for the Jews. In todays devotional reading in Matthew Jesus sent the Apostles out 2 x 2 for Israel only.
God is a NOT respecter of of persons in terms of judgment.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The problem is that people say God is no respecter of persons when the principle doesn't apply to the subject at hand.
That God is no respecter of persons is indisputable because the Bible says so. The question is what this lack of divine respect refers to EXACTLY in a person.
If the Bible student doesn't take the time to rightly divide the word and be persuaded in his own mind, he'll just go around clubbing people over the head with a harmful proof text, as you no doubt have encountered.
:)
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
No human parent is perfect. (obviously)
Even if we nominated one, they would probably decline the designation. (in humbleness)
What about our heavenly parent, God the Father?
I love this parenthetical found in the Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (see bold)
Ephesians 3:14-15 AMPC
"For this reason [[a]seeing the greatness of this plan by which you are built together in Christ],
I bow my knees before the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 For Whom every family in heaven and on earth is named
[that Father from Whom all fatherhood takes its title and derives its name]."
In a recent topic title I asked:
Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
In the Op I wrote this:
"The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them
There is a line down the center of this post, Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?"
Link to topic.
Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so. They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us. The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us. An...www.christianityboard.com
So, this new topic is an extension of that previous topic, but with the focus on God as our heavenly parent.
How does your view of parenting, or of a father effect your view of God?
If we are modeling godly parenting, our children should have a healthy view of our heavenly parent.
I'm thankful that I have a good relationship with my adult children.
But this meant owning up to some things that went wrong early on.
Fortunately, I have found that children are very willing to forgive. (in my case)
So, when I swallowed my pride, they met me more than halfway.
I want to hear from others about how they view this subject.
- What is your view of parenting?
- What is your view of our heavenly parent?
- How did/does your view of your own parents effect your view of God as Father?
- Have you projected the image of a dysfunctional parent on your heavenly parent?
You're confusing contradiction with paradox, thereby creating a false dilemma.
(I really like the tongue-sticking-out smiley—especially with good friends - -
).:)
St. SteVen said:
Some say God is no respecter of persons. Not sure I buy that.
I was referring to the common misuse.
[
Some say God is no respecter of persons. Not sure I buy that.
Exactly.
I was referring to the common misuse.
[
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
That's a tough one. My own father's style of parenting might best be described as 'benevolent neglect.' When I was a kid, he worked 60-80 hours a week. There was always food on the table, and I attended a pretty nice private school (hillbillies like us don't trust government-provided education). But there wasn't a lot of time spent face-to-face. There were a few minutes at bedtime, and the occasional hunting or camping trip.
As I've studied the Bible over the years, I've come to see that viewing a father as being a provider-at-a-distance is NOT a great model of God. The Bible views God as ever-present; that's the opposite thing. The God of the Bible is the-One-who-shapes-things - a role that is decidedly more nurture than nature. And He is a constant communicator - a far cry from the strong-but-silent, John-Wayne-cowboy-type we have in my family.
There's tension between my view of a father and The Father. I would like to say that I've been a good communicator, a nurturer and guide to my children, but... it wouldn't be true. I am more like my father - a provider who is a bit aloof. It's hard not to become your parents.
Great post, thanks.
So, true. I've had to make a conscious effort to be the father to my children that fits my view of God the Father.
If they want to talk to me, I give them my full attention. I show interest in what they like.
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