God does not drag all....

[Butch5]

My point is who are the lost tribes.

I think the reason you are having trouble with this is because most people do not take the context into account. This passage, John 6:44 was spoken to the Jews ( the only ones that Christ came to) and was spoken of the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. During that time God was preparing the Crucifixion, We have several quotes of the Jews being blinded. This blinding was done on purpose in order to bring about the Crucifixion.

This is total HOGWASH and based on your bias and assumption and not God’s Word, you do not like what the verse is saying so you are spinning it. By the way the Jews were only one of twelve tribes, Jesus came for the "Lost tribes of Israel" as I just posted.

Two more point seeing we are speaking of Abram' s seed, the Lost tribes of Israel.

The nation of Israel today, the one that was established in 1948 is the tribe of Judah (#4) and Benjamin (#12) known as the Jews; they are not all Israel but two tribes.

There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben(1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israel”. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.

So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes known as Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel


Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Notice the promise to Abram from God the numbers God promised his prophet in time. Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.


Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

What's your point. I did not say anyting of mdoern Israel. All I did was quote Christ.

Jesus didn't say the lost tribes, He said hte lost sheep.

 

[Benoni]

My point and always been is man does not choose God. I really do not care to make the point that man does good or evil if you are a believer or not. We all come short of the glory of God and are all effected by the tree of good and evil Adam and Eve ate of.

The real issue here is God in the driver seat or is carnal man; you believe carnal man has a freewill or choice... CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE...
Show me using scripture where man has freewill to choose God; you are so against all I say but you at the same time refuse to answer this basic question. I am not a Calvinist; Calvin believed in the heresies of damnations I do not.

You cannot seem to comprehend spiritual death even thought the message of spiritual death is peppered all though God’s Word.


Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually. A dead man cannot hear, see, touch, feel, etc. That is especially true of a spiritual dead man. But tried to explain away “spiritual death” with “spiritual days” which do not cut the mustard because Adam was “930 years old” when he physically died which are “literal days” not spiritual days. If Adam died on a spiritual day then God’s Word would have said on the “seventh day or eighth day” but it did not it say he was 930 years old. You cannot spiritualize something literal unless there is some reference to the point and there is no reference in fact it clearly stated the opposite in literal day. The seven days of creation were spiritual days, I totally agree but they ended on the seventh day, that is a scriptural fact.

You say you do not see spiritual death well how about reading God’s Word.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[Benoni]

I already said sinful man has a choice, many choices but he cannot choose God, fool, no fool it does not matter he is dead in trustpasses and sin.

You are confusing two issues.


Man rejecting God (absolutely)
Man choosing God on his own freewill is what man cannot do until God first quickens/draws man.

Man rejects God, that is because man is spiritually dead as I pointed out. Carnal/religous man do not have the power of there own free will to choose God. If they do show me in scripture where man chooses his own salvation. Yes you showed me they reject God, I agree.

I already quoted the below. Adam had no choice and neither do we.





Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.
[sup][/sup]
Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.

Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

There's nobody living right, not even one,
nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
They've all taken the wrong turn;
they've all wandered down blind alleys.
No one's living right;
I can't find a single one.
Their throats are gaping graves,
their tongues slick as mudslides.
Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
They open their mouths and pollute the air.
They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
Don't know the first thing about living with others.
They never give God the time of day.
This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.

I am not confusing things friend, you just seem to have so many different terms that are not in Scripture, as most Calvinists do. Please show me where Jesus or the apostles teach of rejecting God absolutely as opposed to rejecting Him any other way. The Scriptures you posted show that men choose to sin, no one is arguing that point. However, those passages do not state that man is incapable of doing good as you claim, they simply state that man does not do good. There is now mention made of ability. If you look at the context of Paul's quote you will find that the passages he quotes speak of the fool.

Psalms 14:1-7 ( KJV )
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.
There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.
Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.



Psalms 53:1-6 ( KJV )
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Notice the context, the fool hath said "no God". That my friend is a choice. God has made known His law and the fool hath said "no God". This is the context of the passages that Paul quotes. As I said this does not speak to man's ability so it does not support your doctrine of man's inability.

 

[Benoni]

double post

 

[Benoni]

So your point What is the difference?

My point is who are the lost tribes.

I think the reason you are having trouble with this is because most people do not take the context into account. This passage, John 6:44 was spoken to the Jews ( the only ones that Christ came to) and was spoken of the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. During that time God was preparing the Crucifixion, We have several quotes of the Jews being blinded. This blinding was done on purpose in order to bring about the Crucifixion.

This is total HOGWASH and based on your bias and assumption and not God’s Word, you do not like what the verse is saying so you are spinning it. By the way the Jews were only one of twelve tribes, Jesus came for the "Lost tribes of Israel" as I just posted.

Two more point seeing we are speaking of Abram' s seed, the Lost tribes of Israel.

The nation of Israel today, the one that was established in 1948 is the tribe of Judah (#4) and Benjamin (#12) known as the Jews; they are not all Israel but two tribes.

There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben(1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israel”. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.

So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes known as Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel


Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Notice the promise to Abram from God the numbers God promised his prophet in time. Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.


Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

What's your point. I did not say anyting of mdoern Israel. All I did was quote Christ.

Jesus didn't say the lost tribes, He said hte lost sheep.

 

[Butch5]

My point and always been is man does not choose God. I really do not care to make the point that man does good or evil if you are a believer or not. We all come short of the glory of God and are all effected by the tree of good and evil Adam and Eve ate of.

The real issue here is God in the driver seat or is carnal man; you believe carnal man has a freewill or choice... CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE...
Show me using scripture where man has freewill to choose God; you are so against all I say but you at the same time refuse to answer this basic question. I am not a Calvinist; Calvin believed in the heresies of damnations I do not.

You cannot seem to comprehend spiritual death even thought the message of spiritual death is peppered all though God’s Word.


Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually. A dead man cannot hear, see, touch, feel, etc. That is especially true of a spiritual dead man. But tried to explain away “spiritual death” with “spiritual days” which do not cut the mustard because Adam was “930 years old” when he physically died which are “literal days” not spiritual days. If Adam died on a spiritual day then God’s Word would have said on the “seventh day or eighth day” but it did not it say he was 930 years old. You cannot spiritualize something literal unless there is some reference to the point and there is no reference in fact it clearly stated the opposite in literal day. The seven days of creation were spiritual days, I totally agree but they ended on the seventh day, that is a scriptural fact.

You say you do not see spiritual death well how about reading God’s Word.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

I did not say the days were spiritual. I quoted Scripture. Peter Quotes from the OT and says, 'a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day'. That is Scripture, so when God said in the day you eat of it you shall surely die, he could very easily have meant the thousand years, in which Adam did die. However, you claim is was a spiritual death, yet there is absolutely "nothing" in the passage that even remotely hints a spiritual death, that is an assumption because Adam did not die within 24 hours of eating from the tree.

You speak of spiritual death and quoted the verses above, not one of these verses speaks of a spiritual death, they all speak of physical death. As I said there is no mention in the Scriptures of spiritual death.

 

[Benoni]

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[Benoni]

The scripture you quoted on the day of the Lord has nothing to do with Adam's death, Adam died in years not the day of the Lord.

 

[Benoni]

Butch,

Are you not being honest here an addressing my post?

You said all the verses I posted had to do with phyical death; well prove your point?

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[Butch5]

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Romans 86 is a metaphor for walking in the flesh. Walking in the flesh is death and walking in the Spirit is life.

Ephesians 2 is also a metaphor. Dead is a metaphor for the condition of the sinner.

 

[Butch5]

The scripture you quoted on the day of the Lord has nothing to do with Adam's death, Adam died in years not the day of the Lord.

I didn't say the day of the Lord. Peter said a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. If a day is as a thousand years with God and God said in the day you eat of it you shall die, then one can conclude that if Adam died before he was 1000 years old, he died that day.

 

[Butch5]

Benoni---Butch,

Are you not being honest here an addressing my post?

You said all the verses I posted had to do with physical death; well prove your point?

Yes, I did overlook that. These two as I posted above are metaphors. In order to have spiritual death we must have the concept in Scripture. We cannot take a few verses and say, since they did not die physically this must mean spiritual death. Paul uses death as a metaphor numerous times in his writings.

So please explain physical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Yes, I overlooked these. As I posted above these are metaphors. Paul uses metaphors numerous times in his writings

 

[Benoni]

So what is your point... God's Spiritual Word is nothing but hidden metaphors that is how God's Word speaks spiritually. We are not speaking about math or science here we are speaking about the deepest most profound message of this universe, "God's Word" and there are two God's Word, the spiritual and the literal or carnal.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

The Bible is so full of signs and symbols, metaphors, types, shadows, parables, hidden manna and these realities are found and established all though the Bible.

This message is not like some fairy tale in children’s hour; it is deep and hidden for those with spiritual ears and eyes to see and hears to hear; not religious eyes and ears. That which is spiritual is beyond human/ carnal/religious understanding and is deep; the letter killeth; in other words the carnal earthy understanding killeth. God is real; substantial; but God is Spirit and so is truth; only though God’s Spirit will these spiritual symbolism be understood.

According to Webster the word revelation means : apoc•a•lypse

Middle English, revelation, Revelation, from Anglo-French apocalipse, from Late Latin apocalypsis, from Greek apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover. I prefer the Greek

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

So please explain phyical death in the following verses

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Romans 86 is a metaphor for walking in the flesh. Walking in the flesh is death and walking in the Spirit is life.

Ephesians 2 is also a metaphor. Dead is a metaphor for the condition of the sinner.

 

[Benoni]

Yes the scripture quoted he died (but he did not die physically that day because when he did die it was documented in God's Word not my opinion when he was 930 years old, but yes he died) BECAUSE we ALL know is he did die "physically when he was "930 years old in Gen. 5:5.

The scripture you quoted on the day of the Lord has nothing to do with Adam's death, Adam died in years not the day of the Lord.

I didn't say the day of the Lord. Peter said a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. If a day is as a thousand years with God and God said in the day you eat of it you shall die, then one can conclude that if Adam died before he was 1000 years old, he died that day.