God does not drag all....

[Deadwheat1224]

I'm thinking its probably my religious upbringing... but I'm having trouble with this idea that God does not call/drag/draw everyone to him. My thought has always been that since God wants to be united with all of his children, that he calls (or drags) everyone to himself.Can someone help me understand where this comes from and how it fits into the nature of God as being all-good and perfectly loving?

 

[Jordan]

I think you are looking at flesh only. He may not do it in this time of age, but we also have the Millennium Reign as well.However that to draw one to God doesn't necessarily mean that person is saved... All woman and man has to make a decision to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour or not.Again we also have the Millennium Reign, so don't worry about this age of time we are in, but rather try to make a difference in one's life to see if they chose God or not...Blessings

 

[Brother Mike]

Jordan

All woman and man has to make a decision to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour or not.

Preach it Brother !!!! preach it!!!!Deadwheat1224

Can someone help me understand where this comes from and how it fits into the nature of God as being all-good and perfectly loving?

That is God's nature, those that believe in some Election Doctrine do not have a relationship with God, He is "Father" to them only by term and not relationship. Jesus Is Lord

 

[Jordan]

[quote name='Brother Mike;72434]Jordan[QUOTE=Jordan]All woman and man has to make a decision to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour or not.[/QUOTE]Preach it Brother !!!! preach it!!!!Deadwheat1224[QUOTE]Can someone help me understand where this comes from and how it fits into the nature of God as being all-good and perfectly loving?[/QUOTE]That is God's nature' date=' those that believe in some Election Doctrine do not have a relationship with God, He is "Father" to them only by term and not relationship. Jesus Is Lord[/QUOTE']Well, I wouldn't say that if I were you... it just depends on HOW people speak about the "Elect doctrine" ... like savedbygrace57... oh brother. *sigh*God did choose some people as Elects whether they know it or not... Just because He chose some to be Elects doesn't mean He will ignore His other children... in fact God / Christ clearly says that He desires ALL children saved. (John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10, II Peter 3:9) He wants ALL (Yes everybody) to repent and come to know Him with a relationship.Again, be careful on what you say Mike. Again Elects and Overcomers are 2 different things and Elect doctrine (if taught correctly) doesn't deny and ignore Free Will. (John 14:15)Blessings

 

[Christina]

I will add to Jordans post the Elect and over-comers are only different in this flesh age during the millenium they are the same they get the same reward ...that is to reign and rule with Christ, and they are not subject to the second death..... Anyone can become and overcomer to the End ...The Elect are only those that have been chosen to do a certain task/Job for God to bring about his plan many times they are the leaders that God gives us, Moses, Paul, aspotels are good examples ..They are not any better than the overcomers they just have a destiny .... There are only two in the end those that stay faithful overcame (they include Elect) and those who did not and follow the AC. There is wheat and chaff which you become is your choice

 

[Brother Mike]

Preach it anyway Jordan. I don't have to agree!!!!Sister Christina, there you present the problem. There is a Election Doctrine here. Those like me have to wade though savedbygrace57's Election doctrine and the one You and Jordan believe. All have a right to Hear the Word of God and choose to believe, Being overcomer's. Some get picked by God to do special task. Like preach all over the World. Elect.God is fair though, and those that will believe the truth can be overcomer's, as he wishes ALL men to come to the knowledge of the truth, A lot don't though.This is where I got confused with epistemaniac, Savedbygrace57 and a few others Doctrine and mixed things up some.Not everyone is called to be a Apostle, Pastor, teacher, ETC...........Even the Disciples had been given different directions yet elected (Peter and John for example.)My position is that even though you were not elected a "High" Position, your still part of the Body (Be it a pinky toe) and are important to the plan. God is the one that calls you, and planed it before you were born. Once Jesus Is Lord, you have a job to do. The term overcomer makes it sound to me as if you just do bare minimum to get by, when All have been elected to get in the plan and will of God for their life. Just being a overcomer, (Whew!!! I made it!!) should not exempt you from God's plan and purpose. (Would you like fries with your order?)Thats the way I am looking at it.Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Jordan]

You are misunderstanding what God speaks of Elect. True, you don't have to agree, however, to say there are no Elect doctrine, then tell me, who are going to commit the ONLY unforgivable sin then? (If possible) Do you think God will place the whole world to commit the unforgivable sin? God forbid!And lastly from parts of your posts, you are saying the same exact thing Christina and I are saying... All have a right to believe in God's Words...Have you ever heard of a two way promise? I hope so... Cause God has his side of the contract (in which He can't break his side of the contract / promise) But we also have our side of the contract in which we can break OUR promise to God. A promise is an action, not just believing... Promise requires action.And Christ spake of both Elects and overcomers (2 different things)If we break our side of the contract, then we can't be overcomers.To be honest, I just think, you aren't understanding Christina and I posts... that's my opinion...

 

[Christina]

Where you are making a wrong conclusion here is the meanings you have applied to these Words .... Elect are not as you put higher than anyone .. The predestined Elect are just those who God chooses to do a thing ... If you were going to say build a house you might hire 4 workers they all have knowledge but only one will be chosen as the boss/leader of the crew not because he necessarily knows more not because he's your favorite... But you know his prior work experience gave him the experience to lead. So it is with God some souls he knows will stand up to task better than others not because they are higher or better ,,,, because he knows they can accomplish this particular task ...over comers are called so because they overcome AC unto the END they stay faithful over comers include the predestined Elect .. Over-comers is what we all strive to be they are the ones that know Gods words they overcome Satans temptation ... Predestined Elect are but a part of the overcomers .... anyone can become an over-comers ...the over comers are the true body of Christ .... But only a few were predestined Just because some were predestined to do a thing doesn't make them better it was something they earned ...Were the apostle's better than the people they lead to Christ ?? No they just had the right stuff to lead to do the Job... And No God planted nothing before you were born.... he foreknew us before we born ...because he knows us some he forchoose ...... to a destiny ..... This is what he says ... Those who claim all are predestined are wrong God never says it, they take verses only written about the Elect and try to apply to all then ignore verse's saying otherwise reading half the scripture while ignoring the other half .....Thus they get a false understanding ... others say tares can not be saved wrong ...this is the time of grace anyone who choose can be saved.

 

[Brother Mike]

If you were going to say build a house you might hire 4 workers they all have knowledge but only one will be chosen as the boss/leader of the crew not because he nessarily knows more not because he's your favorite... But perhaps you know his prior work experience gave him the experience to lead.

Well, then........... I have to admit to being a believer of the election doctrine.If thats the way your gonna put it.He that is faithful in little more shall be given. I started following people in prison. 2 years latter I was in charge of the whole group. We were given an order (Thanks to the Muslims) that we were not allowed to pray in a circle out in the open in front of other inmates. The choice was mine to make. Obey authority or pray.I still believe God would call you to Help someone he has chosen to be in charge though. I also believe promotion is from the Lord. I believe that those called to lead would only have those God sends to help. (Bad helpers are not good.) Do we believe the same thing, messed up by a word called "Election" ?God bless.Jesus Is Lord

 

[Christina]

Yep I think we are pretty much on the same page Mike ...I sometimes think of Elect as the generals God may have given them the orders ... but without their troops to carry them through a general is nothing but a guy yelling orders at the wind.

 

[savedbygrace57]

jordon says:

God did choose some people as Elects whether they know it or not... Just because He chose some to be Elects doesn't mean He will ignore His other children

The ones not elected are not His children, but the children of the devil..jn 8: 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. God hates them along with their Father and created them for destruction, everlastingly for their sins..

 

[Jordan]

Figured... you would say something contradicting... No where in the bible says that He is all Hating and Torturous God. Your Elect doctrine is not God's Elect Doctrine... I hate Calvinism with a passion.And learn how to spell my name right.

 

[Christina]

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.[/B] He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. God hates them along with their Father and created them for destruction, everlastingly for their sins..

What a twist of scripture this verse hasnt a thing to do with the Elect its Jesus talking with Sadducees and Pharisees who were of their father the devil ....They were the fake priests that king Herod put into power when he kicked all the true Levite priest out ....God created even the Devil/Lucifer perfect or havent you read ?? Is says nothing of only the Elect and it doesnt say these Saducess and Pharisees couldnt be saved if they had changed their hearts and followed Christ you quote a verse then just make a statement of what ever you think sounds good you know half a doctrine and think you got it all down. If your going to quote scripture as proof of something at least try picking one that has something to do with the claim you are going to make ......

 

[savedbygrace57]

christina says:

What a twist of scripture this verse hasnt a thing to do with the Elect

where in the verse does it say it has nothing to do with the elect ?

 

[Benoni]

I totally disagree, man has no freewill or choice, if God does not draw you you have no ability of choice to be saved. God is not drawing/dragging all people now only His firstfruits (note plural) and then the remainder of all man kinds. In Adam all die. In Christ all will be made alive but each in his own order; firstfruits etc.Acts 15;16-18. I will be back in a few days.

 

[Brother Mike]

Benoni

I will be back in a few days.

Please do take your time and don't rush. I want you to feel refreshed when you come back. Heck, take several months if you have to. It would also be a nice gesture if you invited savedbygrace57 to go with you. I am sure you two would have a wonderful time.be blessed.Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christina]

christina says: where in the verse does it say it has nothing to do with the elect ?

LOL............... That is just about the most absurd statement I ever heard ....because a verse doesnt say something you can just decide it is a doctrine?? The verse doesnt say cockroaches have souls either therefore it must also be true ..... I think you should take Mike's suggestion in the above post

 

[savedbygrace57]

LOL............... That is just about the most absurd statement I ever heard ....

You should laugh at your self then..

 

[Christina]

You should laugh at your self then..

I would be laughing at myself if I was the one claiming what scripture doesnt say is what we should accept as truth and say its Gods words

 

[Jordan]

Man has no Free Will? LOL! Do you have children? If so, did you take your kids to school or did you chose not to? Did you play with them, or did you chose not to? Did you feed them or did you choose not to?How about this? On this very forum on Christianity Board. Did you decide to read this post, or did you chose not to read this post?