God or the Devil , Life and death.

[Helen]

A family member died 24 hours ago..suddenly. A bad headache, wife took him to the Emerg. He walked in with her, answered questions clearly, they put him onto the bed, he fell asleep, and never woke up again. 63.
They found he had a bad brain bleed, from a stoke...when they couldn't wake him up, they did another CT scan, and pronounce him brain dead. He stopped breathing 30 mins later. GONE!
Wonderful for him...I am sure we'd all like our departure from this old world to be that quickly. ( after our three score years and ten! )
Instantly with the Lord. But a very big shock for the rest of the family.
He was such a gracious, loving, and humble soul..much loved by all.
He has beaten us to the other side....he lives on!! Now free and and dancing in Glory. :)

So my question is...who took him..God or the Devil?
I am a strong believer in healing...I believe that all Jesus did for us, He did to the very fullness of victory.
Yet I know the obscure scripture in Isaiah 57 which says:-
"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, Ezekiel 18:4

 

[mjrhealth]

We all die, its a part of living. We die because death came into teh world through the sins of men. Not Gods doing nor teh devils, We allowed it now we are paying for it, but Christ came to redeem us from death. Cool.

 

[Job]

If the devil had a hand in any of this, it's only because he had permission. He doesn't have the authority to take a life on his own. He needs permission. If he didn't, I doubt there'd be a living christian left.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Helen]

That is a good point Job..never quite thought of it like that! True..if God took all protective 'walls' away from around us , we'd all be soon vaporized. :)
I guess it was because he had not reached his 'three score years and ten'..that I had pause to wonder why he 'went early'. But, re your post...it maybe "right on time" for him, and not early at all! :)

 

[lforrest]

I agree the devil can't take a life without permission.

I believe God takes into consideration everyone involved for a decision of how and when. Will the Kingdom benefit in the long term from temporary suffering?

 

[Helen]

I agree the devil can't take a life without permission.

I believe God takes into consideration everyone involved for a decision of how and when. Will the Kingdom benefit in the long term from temporary suffering?

Thank you for your reply..
I doubt any of us enjoy suffering...but we do know it is good 'for' us!
We know that it says that Jesus was made perfect ( complete) through suffering.
Heb 2 "For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the Captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."
And we are called to " follow His steps" !! ( though I never have much understood why He needed perfecting...He Himself said "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father." )
Maybe the perfecting/completing was all to do with His human side..becoming completed man in all things?

Who knows what our final test of death will be like... I think we are called to die "by faith" , just as we called to live by faith.
I don't 'think' I mind the dying bit...I have had two very close encounters and almost gone. So the end is not as fearful for me...but I do dread a long "dying by inches" experience!!
The longer it lasts maybe the greater the chance of failing in the 'faith test'.

As I have thought about our Steve's passing so recently, I see more and more that I must just trust God for whatever the 'end bit' may be like!! I don't feel very brave ...but then again, I guess that is where grace comes in. ( Grace = God ability in you to do what you cannot do)

Helen.

 

[Helen]

I'm still musing on all this above...food for thought...

Back a number of years now...we had an old friend. Emma Lou from Arkansas..so think "Beverly Hillbillies" for how she talked and expressed herself.

She is what people call "a real character".
I hadn't seen her for a while , so when I did , she grabbed my arm and said-
"Girl,here I am having to live through this horrible cold winter and it all John fault. I was in The Beautiful Garden..I had the pneumonia, was sick, and obviously died...
It was lovely , the Garden is lovely...I saw my sister and was so excited...I ran toward her..she turn as she heard my voice....we were just about to hug each other when I heard- " Emma Lou, in the name of Jesus I command to to live, be healed in Jesus name." I did NOT want to open my eyes..but in the end I had to...and there was John and the others around my bed commanding sickness to leave.And for me to wake up.
Now here I am, stuck back here in -30 below temps, and miserable, because I would much rather have stayed in Paradise, warm and happy with my family and Jesus."

Well Emma's daughter moved back to Arkansas, then later her grand daughter also did...
Poor Emma Lou live for four more years....she 'lost her marbles', and ended up in a Care Home,( and not a nice one) ..there she was not knowing who she was or who anyone else was! What an end.

So folks...should she have "gone home" when she died of pneumonia , or was it right to challenge death and take authority over it. Obviously we ( Church, the believing believers) do have the power over sickness and death. Jesus said so in Mark.
If not it would not have happened as many times as it has happened in the bible ,and in life since, for the last 2000 years.
I for one don't have all the answers. ( sometimes I don't even feel that I even have half of the answers! ;) LOL )

 

[JPPT1974]

We may never have all the answers. But God does and that they as well as he have their reasons. Even if we may not understand. But God does. Either having power over health on earth or with Christ and eternity. Sorry that happened By Grace!

 

[DPMartin]

one must leave it with the Lord, He is the Judge on all matters. one must trust that God knows what is good for all of His creation.
but in this life you will loss everything all at once like Job did, or a little at a time eventually one will be forced to let go of all, even your life in the world.

therefore if you are seeking who's fault, or who to blame because it hurts, its only because you haven't let go of it. nothing in creation is required to meet our expectations wants or desires, we are not do anything. it just sucks losing something valued and or loved, and the pain can make one angry, and anger is do to one's own expectations not being met or fulfilled.

 

[Helen]

one must leave it with the Lord, He is the Judge on all matters. one must trust that God knows what is good for all of His creation.
but in this life you will loss everything all at once like Job did, or a little at a time eventually one will be forced to let go of all, even your life in the world.

therefore if you are seeking who's fault, or who to blame because it hurts, its only because you haven't let go of it. nothing in creation is required to meet our expectations wants or desires, we are not do anything. it just sucks losing something valued and or loved, and the pain can make one angry, and anger is do to one's own expectations not being met or fulfilled.

No, Maybe I didn't write it clearly...I was not looking for someone to blame at all.
I am still somewhat confused in the case of old Emma Lou. Then she was sick with the pneumonia ( died) she was already in her eighties, therefore she had already passed her " three score years and ten".
Her own wish was to remain in Paradise...yet the brethren called her back ...I was just wondering if they were "hearing" from the Lord to do that , or just doing it because they could, and had the authority in the Spirit to do so. Her sad, confused and lonely ending , leads me to believe that in the love of God...when she first died was the plan He had designed for her...but, He still honoured the authority that He had previously given to His Church to overcome sin, sickness and disease.

Matt 10. "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."

 

[DPMartin]

Well bygrace confusion is not of the Lord, so what you believe to be true, or events to be true, just might not be true.


The Lord Jesus was specific about the raising of Lazarus and made it clear that the works are to glorify God His Father and it was a witness of the Father that Jesus was of the Father. He said more than once if you don’t believe Him believe the works.


That said, is what is confusing you, is it of God or not?

 

[ScottA]

No, Maybe I didn't write it clearly...I was not looking for someone to blame at all.
I am still somewhat confused in the case of old Emma Lou. Then she was sick with the pneumonia ( died) she was already in her eighties, therefore she had already passed her " three score years and ten".
Her own wish was to remain in Paradise...yet the brethren called her back ...I was just wondering if they were "hearing" from the Lord to do that , or just doing it because they could, and had the authority in the Spirit to do so. Her sad, confused and lonely ending , leads me to believe that in the love of God...when she first died was the plan He had designed for her...but, He still honoured the authority that He had previously given to His Church to overcome sin, sickness and disease.

Matt 10. "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."

The confusion is a component of our language (all confounded at the tower of Babel). That confusion is due to a timeline perspective...which does not actually exist as such, but is rather, a form of media: History is His story. Those things that we experience in life as we know it were not, nor will be...but rather "are", and occurred in the twinkling of an eye. God is timeless. This is all a creation...meaning it is real, but not in the form of time...that's just how we experience it. Like the telling of a story that is written, what is complete before it begins, simply unfolds in the telling.

To answer the question then: Each of our parts in His (God's) story has all the components of God's creation, salvation, and judgement. Your family member's part of the story, simply (and graciously) came to an end. Threescore and ten [years] is only relative to time and death, but not to life. God is the god of life, and timeless.

 

[Helen]

Well bygrace confusion is not of the Lord, so what you believe to be true, or events to be true, just might not be true.

The Lord Jesus was specific about the raising of Lazarus and made it clear that the works are to glorify God His Father and it was a witness of the Father that Jesus was of the Father. He said more than once if you don’t believe Him believe the works.

That said, is what is confusing you, is it of God or not?

Thanks for your response.
I guess that (in bold) was my problem...how did old Emma having to live five more years miserable and now senile , alone in a Care Home..glorify GOD!!
I have made peace with the issue now...by believing that we are "but human" and John was not hearing clearly when he commanded her to come back! What good did the next five years do anyone...not Emma, for sure not John...and even less so God!!
It has taught me as I have mused upon it...that just because we have the ability to do a thing, does not mean than what 'we' think, is the right choice! HEARING from the Lord what to do and when to do it is of vital importance ...and becoming so more and more ...as this ugly world around us changes.

I have lost touch with John over the years...but, I would like to ask him now if he himself believes that he was hearing from God at that time when he commanded Emma to "come back" when she was already old and frail.

( *I sure hope that none of my family " bless me" by calling me back once I have gone...as especially when I get to my 80's!!! UNLESS God has spoken VERY CLEARLY to more than ONE of them!! If I go, I will be very glad to go...LOL )

 

[Sword]

A family member died 24 hours ago..suddenly. A bad headache, wife took him to the Emerg. He walked in with her, answered questions clearly, they put him onto the bed, he fell asleep, and never woke up again. 63.
They found he had a bad brain bleed, from a stoke...when they couldn't wake him up, they did another CT scan, and pronounce him brain dead. He stopped breathing 30 mins later. GONE!
Wonderful for him...I am sure we'd all like our departure from this old world to be that quickly. ( after our three score years and ten! )
Instantly with the Lord. But a very big shock for the rest of the family.
He was such a gracious, loving, and humble soul..much loved by all.
He has beaten us to the other side....he lives on!! Now free and and dancing in Glory. :)

So my question is...who took him..God or the Devil?
I am a strong believer in healing...I believe that all Jesus did for us, He did to the very fullness of victory.
Yet I know the obscure scripture in Isaiah 57 which says:-
"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."

Exact thing happened to mt Father in law. eight hours from sore head to dead. I found out about three hours before he died. by which time he was flown to hospital in the helicoptor. SO i went to the secret place and begged God to spare him. Like I never begged before. I loved my father in law more than my Father. So I prayed this prayer in total ignorance like I did 20 years of ignorant prayer, I belived wrongly that God gave and God took away. Not understanding that , that is an old covanant mind set.

Jesus came to bring life and life more abundant. Being the author of life that should be hardly surprising.
satan the weasel came to steal kill and destroy. Who or what is he killing? Well its us and everything he can. he steal the word of truth from you and destroys our relationship with God through misunderstanding. God never gave this man or any man an anurisim. His life was cut short by satan. who opperates ilegally here on earth. he also uses our ignorance to speak death unto our selves and other. we are actully partly respocible for killing our own. By this I men you have the power of life and death in your tounge. We are constantly saying oh doctor says I have cancer. oh my cancer I am sick I have a sore head, Well hes only got two months to lve. There gonna die soon you know, continually talking death into people. If God did not want you to raise the dead and heal the sick . Why do you have the power of life and death in YOUR tounge?
God never killed anyone. satan killed them all. curry Blake has been in healing minitry over 30 years. He record every single detail fully. He has noticed satan uses strong cancers against strong people. John Wayne type speakers. and weak cancers agaisnt weak people. children woman and weak men. There are 200 types of cancer. Curry has seen every type bend the knee. because we are rightchous dosent mean we have all the knowledge and walk in it. worder if he mercyfull men are taken away from the truth? We are in a wicked world that satan works in and hates you. It could nt be simpiler stan hates you God loves you. God gave you all you need . But we are not walking in much of what we have been given. there for we suffer losse continually. because of the twisted way we think mostly.

 

[Helen]

SWORD

Yes, totally agree.
It does get a bit messy though when other family member closer than ourselves, have different levels of faith. I remember the story of Jairus daughter Mark 5 ...and He had to tell the all to leave the room..as they were crying and "seeing" her dead...whereas He always saw and was LIFE!!
With Steve.. we were not the 'front runners' , many family members closer than us!!
It is a message not easily heard by some.
And even for us that do...it is still very 'hit and miss'. But, we hold fast to the truth. Jesus died for the whole man.
God bless...

 

[Sword]

I agree the devil can't take a life without permission.

I believe God takes into consideration everyone involved for a decision of how and when. Will the Kingdom benefit in the long term from temporary suffering?

You dont read that in scripture. If satan has to ask God to take someone life and God said yes Gods an accessory to murder. satan came to steal kill and destroy its all he knows. He tried to kill Christ many times through men. Herod etc. He does not ask God for permission. He kills illegally continuously. Now where do you read God gave permission to kill. There is a reaping what you sow. Smoke and you will get cancer. satan does not ask God in scripture can I kill this one? We take one scripture from job and made it into what it is not. God stopped satan from killing Job because God knew he would kill him. God never made a deal with satan. God said all he has is in your hands. satan was the ruler of the earth then. And had dominion over all the earth. he took it off Adam and had it legally. he offerd it to Jesus all off this I will give unto you if you bow down and worship me.

 

[lforrest]

You dont read that in scripture. If satan has to ask God to take someone life and God said yes Gods an accessory to murder. satan came to steal kill and destroy its all he knows. He tried to kill Christ many times through men. Herod etc. He does not ask God for permission. He kills illegally continuously. Now where do you read God gave permission to kill. There is a reaping what you sow. Smoke and you will get cancer. satan does not ask God in scripture can I kill this one? We take one scripture from job and made it into what it is not. God stopped stand from killing Job because God knew he would kill him. God never made a deal with satan. God said all he has is in your hands. satan was the ruler of the earth then. And had dominion over all the earth. he took it off Adam and had it legally. he offerd it to Jesus all off this I will give unto you if you bow down and worship me.

If God lifts a protection from someone it is a passive permission for Satan to take advantage of the situation. But Satan is responsible for what evil he does and God has no part in it.

 

[Job]

Now where do you read God gave permission to kill.

What do you call this?

Revelation 13
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

 

[Sword]

But where in the NC does God do that?