Godly Sorrow.

[ScottA]

Below is a good example of anything that may be considered bad or even evil that is instead entirely different when the intentions are godly--that is to say, from God:

2 Corinthians 7:2-12​

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Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one. 3 I do not say this to condemn; for I have said before that you are in our hearts, to die together and to live together. 4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.​

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5 For indeed, when we came to Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were troubled on every side. Outside were conflicts, inside were fears. 6 Nevertheless God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus, 7 and not only by his coming, but also by the consolation with which he was comforted in you, when he told us of your earnest desire, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced even more.​

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8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. 12 Therefore, although I wrote to you, I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong, nor for the sake of him who suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear to you.​

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The same actions without being "godly" (or from God) would be considered harmful. This is also true of many things, even weapons and war. God has purpose in "all things" and...as it is written, "is working all things together for good, for those who love Him according to [His] purpose." In other words, intentions, agendas, and purpose are key, and yet may be completely opposite in affect if not [actually] "according to His purpose." It is for this reason that we should examine ourselves--that is, our intentions, our agendas, and our purpose or reason for what we are doing...in perhaps any and all areas of life, but especially in matters of the church. The point being, that if anything is "our" own intention, agenda, or purpose--it is likely against rather than for God, for we according to God are not good, and if we are it is not we but God who is good within us.

Therefore it is written, that we are to:

2 Corinthians 13:5​

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.​

 

[Jim C]

Below is a good example of anything that may be considered bad or even evil that is instead entirely different when the intentions are godly--that is to say, from God:

2 Corinthians 7:2-12​

​

Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one. 3 I do not say this to condemn; for I have said before that you are in our hearts, to die together and to live together. 4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.​

​

5 For indeed, when we came to Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were troubled on every side. Outside were conflicts, inside were fears. 6 Nevertheless God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus, 7 and not only by his coming, but also by the consolation with which he was comforted in you, when he told us of your earnest desire, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced even more.​

​

8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. 12 Therefore, although I wrote to you, I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong, nor for the sake of him who suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear to you.​

​

The same actions without being "godly" (or from God) would be considered harmful. This is also true of many things, even weapons and war. God has purpose in "all things" and...as it is written, "is working all things together for good, for those who love Him according to [His] purpose." In other words, intentions, agendas, and purpose are key, and yet may be completely opposite in affect if not [actually] "according to His purpose." It is for this reason that we should examine ourselves--that is, our intentions, our agendas, and our purpose or reason for what we are doing...in perhaps any and all areas of life, but especially in matters of the church. The point being, that if anything is "our" own intention, agenda, or purpose--it is likely against rather than for God, for we according to God are not good, and if we are it is not we but God who is good within us.

Therefore it is written, that we are to:

2 Corinthians 13:5​

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.​

The key is Godly sorrow produces repentance.
Repentance by definition, unlike regret or remorse, leads to action. That is, taking action to correct the issue to ensure it doesn't repeat.

Worldly sorrow leads to regret and remorse, neither of which necessarily lead to action. One will feel bad for their actions for a time, then basically get over it and move on. In fact, many feel remorse moreso for the fact they got caught than for what they did wrong.

 

[MatthewG]

Wisdom of God is founded in the scriptures if one had a keen eye.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.

Key to me there is “for I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while(season)” and how Paul says I repented, but now I repent not …which is it? Repented or repented not? Both? for it was for a needful season of heaviness …which “I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to” ..your being found unto the praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ. (Imo, paraphrasing)

1 Peter 1:6-7
Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations: [7] That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried by fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

To me “seasons” is important in “tried by fire”…For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a (little season)while.”
He spoke of “seasons” Matthew 16:1-3 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. [2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O you hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times?

To me godly sorrow is what is expected at the end for example when God hands those who blaspheme over to the devil that they may learn to not blaspheme God. The end result being “that they may learn to not blaspheme God” or hand them over to the devil that the flesh may be destroyed, but the spirit saved. How many times has someone cursed you “I rebuke you in the name of God”
and the end result they desire is that you go to hell? For death and not life? A curse. I think life also teaches us lessons an example being if you have an alcoholic child or an addiction ridden child …it may make you greatly sorrowful to no longer enable or support their comfort but instead you allow them the full load of it by themselves. You toss and turn feeling regretful and sorrowful wondering if this makes you unloving.(or long suffering?) Every thing weighs heaving on you and your child… But if this leads to their returning home to say I’ve been fully convinced to my own core that I am free, I am now free from the addiction…you rejoice in the fruit of freedom although the journey was greatly sorrowful. What is the desired outcome “death” or “Life” …to me that is what Paul is speaking of…why do we endure what is the end we endure for? For Destruction or…for The Life?

To me we have to examine our own hearts of the motive and end result we look for…fruit unto death? Or Fruit unto Christ? To look at those sorrowful unto death(who can not discern their right hand from their left hand)…we (if we can, if it is in us to do so) should pray for sorrowful unto Life in Christ. (I get there is a controversy in you should not pray for sin unto death. But that is the point, not praying for sin unto death.)

 

[ScottA]

Great comments!

I should think that one of the greatest stumbling blocks is not to think it necessary to actually examine ourselves, thinking..."oh but certainly there is no need to examine myself--not me!"

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He spoke of “seasons” Matthew 16:1-3 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. [2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O you hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times?

He answered them, when it is evening, you say, it will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, it will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring…
Psalm 30:5-12 For his anger endures but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. [6] And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved. [7] LORD, by your favour You have made my mountain to stand strong: you did hide thy face, and I was troubled. [8] I cried to You, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication. [9] What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise You? shall it declare Your truth? [10] Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be You my helper. [11] You have turned for me my mourning into dancing: You have put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; [12] To the end that my glory may sing praise to You, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto You for ever.

Love how much hope there is in Him! A reason to not be overcome by depression!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. 12 Therefore, although I wrote to you, I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong, nor for the sake of him who suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear to you.

Still days later considering your thread. This passage came up while I was thinking about another thread about Hitler. I wanted to post it there but felt it fits your thread better. I don’t understand it but it stands out “God regretted…” “for I am sorry that I have made them.” Do you have any insight on this verse in light of The topic “Godly sorrow”?
Genesis 6:5-8 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them." [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[ScottA]

Still days later considering your thread. This passage came up while I was thinking about another thread about Hitler. I wanted to post it there but felt it fits your thread better. I don’t understand it but it stands out “God regretted…” “for I am sorry that I have made them.” Do you have any insight on this verse in light of The topic “Godly sorrow”?
Genesis 6:5-8 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them." [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

First-- it should be noted, that this insight is yours..from God. Thank you!

As for any relative connection by likeness, yes, there is a likeness. This is the godly sorrow of a parent who is tasked to correct and discipline a child, which hurts the parent "more than" the child.

Paul then in 2 Corinthians 7, having stated elsewhere, "for to me, to live is Christ", was indeed cut to the heart in sorrow. Which is the likeness of our Father who also stated His own sorrow, as you have pointed out-- sorrow, like Father, like Son...as it should be.