And all this time I thought Jesus was the Son of God. Still do.
-- He is the Son of God.....regardless of the fact that Eccl thinks there was a surrogate.
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And all this time I thought Jesus was the Son of God. Still do.
I would say it's "lazy" or even deceptive to not give chapter, verse and translation.
Why are you refusing now?
Do you give your kids money whenever they ask or should we make them do some work for it?
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Did not God give us intructions concerning His word?
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
"... make full proof of thy ministry."
No.....Ducky. It's there.....all you have to do is find it.
Bet you think that when Jesus was baptized, that was an angel that came down upon him and not the Holy Spirit.
Or that it was angels in Acts 2 that came upon the disciples.
I bet you can talk yourself into just about anything.
Please direct me to the book, chapter and verse that says the Holy spirit is a God.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
Angel........and.......
"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Angels!
Yep. In both cases they were Holy Spirits/Holy Angels!
Of course, what you say goes against what people with common sense here know (notice the only ones who have spoken up do not agree with you, and for good cause.)
You will of course be able to provide no author, preacher, pastor, minister, evangelist, etc. who agrees with you either.
Or if you can, a short bit of research will show that their other ideas are just as non-Christian.
This was the 2nd line of your original post.
Please direct me to the book, chapter and verse that says the Holy spirit is a God.
Do you really think that I think what I post will be popular or accepted?
And yet.....although you do not agree.....you keep coming back.
I already know where the scripture is he seeks.
What light would that be? That you choose THE LAW of Moses over Grace and Truth? Go ahead and choose THE LAW. I'll take Grace and Truth of the New Covenant. We'll see who gets there.
You guys are like a moth drawn to the light.....you can't help it!
-- So, you're not interested in educating him, just jerking his chain.
Should we believe you or God?If you are truly led by the spirit of God you are doing your best to keep His laws!
And why shouldn't they? They are sent by God to do His will. His Holy Spirits SHOULD have the same characteristics. But you will NEVER find anywhere in the bible that they are GOD's.
God and angels are 'spirit' beings! If you took the time to fully read the lesson you will see that angels, at times, and with the authority of God, sometimes speak and act as if they were God Himself, but they are yet ministering spirit beings, made by God to do His will.
Just as evil spirits. They too do the will of God.
Now.....what of the questions presented to you?
Care to answer, or 'dodge'?
Are you saying there is only ONE Holy Spirit?
God's word speaks of (7) Spirits of God that are before His throne. If they are at God's throne they surly cannot be evil Spirits. So what of these (7) Spirits of God. Do you not know of them?
And what of the Evil Spirit from God?
Within the Trinity there is perfect love, harmony and fellowship.
Fellowship? Really now!
If they are ONE, how can the Son judge WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
If they are ONE, how can the Father know the time and the hour, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son?
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
If they are ONE, how can you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son?
"And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."
If they are ONE, who is it that Jesus prays to in the garden before His death?
"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
If they are ONE, who was God while Jesus was dead for 3 days and 3 nights?
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
If they are ONE, who raised Jesus from the dead?
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."
Oh yeah.....they are just oooozzzzzing with fellowship!
Got a lot of communication going on too!
What of when He said that He and the Father were one?
Let me ask for a straight answer, if you are capable of giving one: what is your exact view on God the Father and Jesus Christ? I'm not interested in your misquoted verses here...I simply want to know, in your own words, how you see these two, in relation to one another.
I can only see God the Father and God the Son the way Jesus tells us they are one. Jesus Himself tells us in John 17;
Here’s how Jesus tells us the (3) are ONE!!
1 John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us;
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Already we see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. No mention of any other God; just God the Father AND God the Son; two beings. Let's continue;
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Well there you have it from Jesus Himself. But let's continue......
So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! So we too are ONE with God! But how? Let's read more. Let's see at what point does Jesus mentions God the Holy Ghost
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
How many times must Jesus tell us how He and the Father are one? So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE! All on one accord.
Now let's read who brings the message of God;
John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
What will the Holy Ghost say? ONLY what was given to him by Jesus. And where did Jesus get His message from? God the Father.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.
Let's read an example of this from the scriptures;
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So we have God the Father giving a revelation to God the Son; Jesus Christ.
This revelation was to be given to their servant; John, by an Holy angel or Spirit!. Let's continue....
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So what we have in the Book of Revelation is the word of God the Father, given to His son; Jesus Christ, who in turn gave it to the Holy Spirit, who then gave it to John, who wrote it all down.
So ALL of them are ONE; God the Father, God the Son, the Holy Spirit that gave the message to John AND John himself for writing down ALL that the Holy Spirit revealed to him!
So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.
This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is from one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit from another. Nor does it mention anything about them being of the same substance or any nonsense like that. Nor is it a "Mystery" of faith!
The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3) separate entities, have and bring the SAME message.
There is no ‘mystery’! This makes sense!
You are of course correct, Rach.
You are also wasting your breath.
As I said to him:
You will of course be able to provide no author, preacher, pastor, minister, evangelist, etc. who agrees with you either.
Or if you can, a short bit of research will show that their other ideas are just as non-Christian."
A person here with an opinion that not a single person here agrees with and that has no support from a specific author, pastor, preacher, minister, evangelist...
...yet the person feels he alone is correct and all other learned Christians (well beyond those on this board) are wrong.
This is a person who has deeper issues. One that should be raising red flags for him left and right...
Agreed Foreigner. I don't answer him in any kind of hope of reasoning or persuading him. It's more in lines with my hope that seeing truth against these ideas may help any non-Christian or struggling Christian not be swayed by his ideas.
Wrong.