No one on this site is worthy to read such worth while material. I've removed as much of it as it is up to me to remove.
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God's Beginningless Past
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The bible is the Holy Spirit showing us the TRUTH about God and the relationship between that which is spiritual and that which is material.
God created the spiritual realm first. God exists from everlasting to everlasting, and God Himself points to His omnipotence when He tells us that He cast our sins from as far as the East is from the West. Sins are a consequence of the material existance, yet God points to opposite infinate (spiritual) ends when erradicating the curse of the law of sin, which is death. How far is east from west if it were calculated as a straight line? Stretch this calculation inside space, above the ionisphere. Does science even have a clue how to measure that distance? Don't even attempt to guess, its a no brainer...NO!
Also, the Holy Spirit shows us from Gods word that God is both spiritual and physical and is the God of heaven and earth. When Genesis speaks of "THE" begining. The Holy Spirit is showing us the begining of "TIME". This is something that didn't occur before the material existance. God could always see clearly and didn't need to create spiritual light. God created physical light against a world that was formless, void, and filled with darkness upon the surface of the deep. In this way, this world, in this realm, could see and experience the wonders of Gods love and the gift of creating us with dominion over our own existance in our own realm, and yet in His likeness in order that we could be made Holy and ONE with Him through a relationsip inspired by His Holy Spirit. We were made naked so that we might be clothed by His favor and our word would have the power to name all the animals, and all the things in nature, to create laws, through the spoken word that would unite us in marriage and use the power of our faith in His word to rebuke evil if it presented itself to us. Unfortunately, Adam didn't reach for His faith in Gods word to rebuke the enemy, rather, he reached for Ev's word and stumbled over Gods grace and trampled it under foot. It was then we learned about a spiritual law called consequence or curse applied also to the physical/material realm. Lucifer to Satan, the fall of angels first.
God, by the power of His omnipotance to create within and without the spiritual, created the Nation of Israel and the Jewish people through His word to Jacob, and the Holy Spirit planted a seed in Jacobs bosom when called to Him and told Jacob his name from that day forward would be called Israel, the name itself discribes a relationship, built on faith, inspite of the fall, that would eventually save all men from eternal condemnation through Gods "WORD" becoming flesh and taking the curse upon Himself and setting the captives of that curse free. Again, God demonstrating His omnipotence from the Spiritual to physical.
Attempting to use the limited limitless mind of man to argue God is only one or the other, spiritual or material, is as futile as saying we can calculate the distance between both ends of the universe with absolute accuracy and prove there is a begining and an end. You'll die trying...but if you like futility, go for it.
God created the spiritual realm first. God exists from everlasting to everlasting, and God Himself points to His omnipotence when He tells us that He cast our sins from as far as the East is from the West. Sins are a consequence of the material existance, yet God points to opposite infinate (spiritual) ends when erradicating the curse of the law of sin, which is death. How far is east from west if it were calculated as a straight line? Stretch this calculation inside space, above the ionisphere. Does science even have a clue how to measure that distance? Don't even attempt to guess, its a no brainer...NO!
Also, the Holy Spirit shows us from Gods word that God is both spiritual and physical and is the God of heaven and earth. When Genesis speaks of "THE" begining. The Holy Spirit is showing us the begining of "TIME". This is something that didn't occur before the material existance. God could always see clearly and didn't need to create spiritual light. God created physical light against a world that was formless, void, and filled with darkness upon the surface of the deep. In this way, this world, in this realm, could see and experience the wonders of Gods love and the gift of creating us with dominion over our own existance in our own realm, and yet in His likeness in order that we could be made Holy and ONE with Him through a relationsip inspired by His Holy Spirit. We were made naked so that we might be clothed by His favor and our word would have the power to name all the animals, and all the things in nature, to create laws, through the spoken word that would unite us in marriage and use the power of our faith in His word to rebuke evil if it presented itself to us. Unfortunately, Adam didn't reach for His faith in Gods word to rebuke the enemy, rather, he reached for Ev's word and stumbled over Gods grace and trampled it under foot. It was then we learned about a spiritual law called consequence or curse applied also to the physical/material realm. Lucifer to Satan, the fall of angels first.
God, by the power of His omnipotance to create within and without the spiritual, created the Nation of Israel and the Jewish people through His word to Jacob, and the Holy Spirit planted a seed in Jacobs bosom when called to Him and told Jacob his name from that day forward would be called Israel, the name itself discribes a relationship, built on faith, inspite of the fall, that would eventually save all men from eternal condemnation through Gods "WORD" becoming flesh and taking the curse upon Himself and setting the captives of that curse free. Again, God demonstrating His omnipotence from the Spiritual to physical.
Attempting to use the limited limitless mind of man to argue God is only one or the other, spiritual or material, is as futile as saying we can calculate the distance between both ends of the universe with absolute accuracy and prove there is a begining and an end. You'll die trying...but if you like futility, go for it.
Why do people do this?
I just posted an extremely well thought out argument and you show up here to state your personal opinions, with NOTHING but conjecture to back it up as though the opening post doesn't exist.
There is nothing - NOTHING - in the text nor anything rational that would support the contention that Genesis is talking about the beginning of time. That's just you reading your doctrine into the text. A tactic that David Koresh liked to use in order to talk his followers into sending their fourteen year old daughters to his bedroom.
Let's count how many times you use terms that one make sense from within time. (i.e. how many time you contradict your own doctrine.)
1
2
Oh! I expected there to be more but that gave you too much credit for having any ability to stay on topic!
None of the is either relevant or in dispute.
Unsupported irrelevant nonsense.
Irrelevant.
Laughably ridiculous universalist nonsense.
You mean like you've just been doing?
You didn't even read the opening post, did you?
I wish I could delete this entire waste of time post of yours!
If you do not wish to discuss the opening post then get off the thread.
You are a fool to believe the opinions and statements supported by well intentioned humanoids writing their well intended opinions are not conjecture based on limited thinking. God indeed is everlasting to everlasting, say what you may, it's your opinion.
I quoted the word of God, not the well intents of those that line the gates of hell.
What sort of writing are you doing if not "humanoid"?
How is it that your thinking isn't as limited as mine (or the author of the opening posts)?
You cited isolated verses into which your read your doctrine. Bob cited several scriptures some of which you cite yourself and agree that they mean what Bob claims and, in addition to that he makes several cogent arguments that you don't even have the first clue how to deal with at all much less refute.
Your isolated verses based on your black church doctrines are what you need to read. I don't write doctrines, You do, because you two belong to the same cult, and put your faith in doctrines of men.
Black church doctrines?
Well, your post was full of all kinds of doctrines, Writer! The post is still right there for the whole world to read!!
If the doctrines that I present are so obviously false then why don't you demonstrate that by proving them wrong?
Because you can't do it! That's why! If you could, a whole herd of wild horses couldn't pull you away from your computer until you had the argument posted. Instead, you post totally unsupported opinions and universalist nonsense that has nothing to do with the opening post and pretend as though the argument presented in the opening post don't exist.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Although I typically enjoy considering problems like this, I won't take the time. The argument rests on the absurd notion that we can measure what an infinite Being can do! Obviously, we measure things, but an infinite Being doesn't have to!
My faith is not in religious doctrines. My faith is in the person of Jesus. The bible was not writen to worship doctrines, or by men inspired by doctrines but by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. You on the other hand are inspired by your own self interests in deception.Black church doctrines?
Well, your post was full of all kinds of doctrines, Writer! The post is still right there for the whole world to read!!
If the doctrines that I present are so obviously false then why don't you demonstrate that by proving them wrong?
Because you can't do it! That's why! If you could, a whole herd of wild horses couldn't pull you away from your computer until you had the argument posted. Instead, you post totally unsupported opinions and universalist nonsense that has nothing to do with the opening post and pretend as though the argument presented in the opening post don't exist.
Is that the doctrine that all white people are born evil?
There's a lot of that going around these days ya know.
It rests on no such notion. Maybe try reading it again, if you read it to begin with.
Of course they are.
Define the term "religious doctrines". I dare you.
Why?
That's a doctrine that you just stated.
Prove it or admit that this was a lie.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, I read most of it. I stopped for the reason given. I've heard these kinds of arguments before. And they are predicated on an absurdity, that those who must measure things, ie us, can judge what a Being can do who is infinite. God must tell us what He can do. We cannot tell Him what He can or cannot do.
I'm not even saying I disagree with you. I'm saying I've heard these arguments before, and they're groundless. So I don't give them much thought anymore.
By all means, state your case. It may help others. I've tried to do the same. I'm not criticizing your arguments--I'm delegitimizing theirs, which is what I think you're also trying to do.
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Black as witch coven black masses. Not related to black people anymore than God calling the earth being coverd in darkness as though referring to Dark people.
Check this out from the article:
"Is There Time in Heaven? Yes. When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about HALF AN HOUR (Rev. 8:1)."
John perceived it was a half an hour--John is human. This argument is p poor.
God created time. In the beginning, (Time) God created the Heavens (space) and the earth (matter)
"Is There Time in Heaven? Yes. When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about HALF AN HOUR (Rev. 8:1)."
John perceived it was a half an hour--John is human. This argument is p poor.
God created time. In the beginning, (Time) God created the Heavens (space) and the earth (matter)
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Infinite Velocity is synonymous with Omnipresence, being everywhere and anywhere in no time at all.
Okay, so you've made this claim now twice. Guess what - saying it doesn't make it so.
If it happens to be the case then it would indeed falsify the argument, right? So do make the argument then! You showing up to proclaim something to be invalid doesn't do anyone any good. Make the argument!
How are they groundless? Make the argument!
The opening post is my case and your boldly stated personal opinion does not delegitimize anything. If it's wrong then I want to know it but you simply showing up to tell me that its wrong isn't going to convince me. You've got to show me where the error is.
I've actually done quite a lot of study in this area over the years and I can tell you that it very simply is not predicated on the premise you are claiming. It's not as if philosophical discussions about there being an uncaused cause is something new. It's one of the oldest topics in all of philosophy. In fact, I'm confident enough about that to say that if you were to actually spend the time it took to formulate an actual argument that attempted to establish the claim you're making, that you'd discover that not only can you not formulate that argument but that the premises that actually exist in the opening posts along with their subsequent conclusions are quite inescapable. A major point of which isn't merely to have an interesting discussion about God and His relation to time but, more fundamentally, to say that Christianity is the only rationally consistent worldview that exists.
Because you say so?!Check this out from the article:
"Is There Time in Heaven? Yes. When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about HALF AN HOUR (Rev. 8:1)."
John perceived it was a half an hour--John is human. This argument is p poor.
Reading your doctrine into the text is the sort of thing that folks like David Koresh did in order to convince his followers to send their fourteen year old girls to his bedroom.
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Agreed. And, that time is a part of the material creation, from which God remains outside. He is not subject to His own created laws of physics. God is no more bound by time than He is by gravity.
Much love!
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