What is your notion of Christian exclusivity?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,868
1,036
113
77
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I read all 8 verses. What am I looking for?
KJV ends with: 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

CS ends with 8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

There is no where in the oldest manuscript that had Mark 16:16.

SO WHERE DID IT COME FROM?????????????????
 

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,097
937
113
68
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
KJV ends with: 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

CS ends with 8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

There is no where in the oldest manuscript that had Mark 16:16.

SO WHERE DID IT COME FROM?????????????????
Who knows what those Catholic monks did with the copies. Some added others deleted. Some where probably lost. They do all kinds of stuff with the new translations. The older the better I like them. The old English is brutal to try to read. Stuff like the Geneva, Coverdale and Tyndale. I'm going to try to find the translation you mentioned.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,868
1,036
113
77
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who knows what those Catholic monks did with the copies. Some added others deleted. Some where probably lost. They do all kinds of stuff with the new translations. The older the better I like them. The old English is brutal to try to read. Stuff like the Geneva, Coverdale and Tyndale. I'm going to try to find the translation you mentioned.
Absolutely. The older the better and you are so right Geneva etc are painful to say the least

Try Codex Sinaiticus: The New Testament in English

Also: Codex Sinaiticus | H. T Anderson Translation

An interesting link "Whats missing" What’s Missing from Codex Sinaiticus, the Oldest New Testament?

This is the link I used for the KJV and CS comparison.

I think the 2nd above is the easiest.

There are others but when they get confusing they lose me.
 

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,097
937
113
68
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Absolutely. The older the better and you are so right Geneva etc are painful to say the least

Try Codex Sinaiticus: The New Testament in English

Also: Codex Sinaiticus | H. T Anderson Translation

An interesting link "Whats missing" What’s Missing from Codex Sinaiticus, the Oldest New Testament?

This is the link I used for the KJV and CS comparison.

I think the 2nd above is the easiest.

There are others but when they get confusing they lose me.
I will look at it. Thanks
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,160
2,589
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
....
This is important because we need to understand what the Bible is talking about when it uses words. If we add our own words to the text then we are re-writing the Bible. I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).
That doesn't work either, and is actually the very 'adding' to Scripture you talk about.

Apostle Paul speaking to Christians at Corinth...

1 Cor 10:9-12
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
KJV


So the Old Testament histories and events, i.e., "ensamples", were written for OUR ADMONITION, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD ARE COME?

Looks like to me ALL The Bible was written for the Christian, whether Israelite or Gentile.
 

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,097
937
113
68
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That doesn't work either, and is actually the very 'adding' to Scripture you talk about.

Apostle Paul speaking to Christians at Corinth...

1 Cor 10:9-12
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
KJV


So the Old Testament histories and events, i.e., "ensamples", were written for OUR ADMONITION, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD ARE COME?

Looks like to me ALL The Bible was written for the Christian, whether Israelite or Gentile.
I already wrote it correctly. The whole Bible is written for our learning, but not all of it is addressed to us.

It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,160
2,589
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I already wrote it correctly. The whole Bible is written for our learning, but not all of it is addressed to us.
And there you go again, contradicting yourself.

If the whole Bible was written FOR our 'admonition' like Paul said, then how is it that it is not addressed to us also? All you are trying to point to is, that past Bible events did not happen to us because we did not live back then, or were not among those it happened to. Yet those events were written FOR US also, because Paul's idea of "ensamples" means history reoccurring, a no new thing under the sun thing.

The Revelation Babylon Harlot events are upon this present generation today, and will soon model many of the Old Testament events of the time of the prophet Daniel, and the Babylon captivity. Revelation reveals this future captivity will be world-wide this final time by the Babylon Harlot. So how is it one can be ignorant of that as an "ensample" for us upon whom the ends of the world are come, like Apostle Paul was pointing to?
 

Spyder

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
482
462
63
Holt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I already wrote it correctly. The whole Bible is written for our learning, but not all of it is addressed to us.

It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.
I see that it is difficult to comprehend that passages are directly pointed to the person or group to which they are addressed. It is so common for people to claim that every passage is intended for them personally. I see this kind of interpretation all the time. I think you may be pushing a bolder uphill here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,918
5,296
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And there you go again, contradicting yourself.

If the whole Bible was written FOR our 'admonition' like Paul said, then how is it that it is not addressed to us also?
Sigh. Today people take things overly literally.

What @Peterlag wrote I feel applies to the letter MLK jr wrote from a Birmingham jail. It was literally written to other pastors of his day but every generation can benefit from reading and applying its principles. You understand the difference?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spyder

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,097
937
113
68
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see that it is difficult to comprehend that passages are directly pointed to the person or group to which they are addressed. It is so common for people to claim that every passage is intended for them personally. I see this kind of interpretation all the time. I think you may be pushing a bolder uphill here.
We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.
 

Peterlag

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2022
3,097
937
113
68
New York
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And there you go again, contradicting yourself.

If the whole Bible was written FOR our 'admonition' like Paul said, then how is it that it is not addressed to us also? All you are trying to point to is, that past Bible events did not happen to us because we did not live back then, or were not among those it happened to. Yet those events were written FOR US also, because Paul's idea of "ensamples" means history reoccurring, a no new thing under the sun thing.

The Revelation Babylon Harlot events are upon this present generation today, and will soon model many of the Old Testament events of the time of the prophet Daniel, and the Babylon captivity. Revelation reveals this future captivity will be world-wide this final time by the Babylon Harlot. So how is it one can be ignorant of that as an "ensample" for us upon whom the ends of the world are come, like Apostle Paul was pointing to?
I do not believe I ever contradicted myself. How could I since I speak the same truth every time? From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,970
4,010
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But the reality is, apart from the salvation and eternal life aspects Jesus was no more profound than many other spiritual teachers. This is what those whose Christianity exists in a biblical vacuum fail to realize. Many of Jesus' teachings had precedents in Judaism and have counterparts in other religions. If Christian metaphysics aren't ontologically true, then Jesus is just another sage. The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path of Buddhism are at least as profound as anything in Christianity.

In a mystical classic, Cosmic Consciousness (1901), Canadian psychiatrist Richard Maurice Bucke examined the lives of many individiuals who seemed to him to have the enlightened spirituality he characterized as "cosmic consciousness." He ranked Jesus high, but not as high as several others.

Which doesn't mean I "wouldn't bother with" Jesus if I knew Christian metaphysics were false, but I'd simply take Him for whatever I found His teachings to be worth. In all honesty, I would have to say that at the level of daily living many other philosophers and sages have informed my spirituality as much or more than Jesus. If Jesus isn't in a unique category, which hinges on the truth of Christian metaphysics, then He's just another sage.
I'm curious about The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path of Buddhism and The Four Noble Truths.
I still have computer search tabs open on the subject but haven't dug into it yet.

If the question assumed God existed, Jesus was the Son, yada yada, but there simply were no salvation or afterlife - well, that's pretty much what many ancient Jews did believe (sans Jesus, of course). I suppose then I'd be forced to regard Jesus as more than just another sage, but I'm not sure what difference it would make to my life.
This would make a very interesting forum topic.
Comparing wisdom from other religions that parallels Christian biblical wisdom.
Sages from the Ages.

/