What is your notion of Christian exclusivity?

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

At the risk of becoming trounced upon here...

We have the Holy Bible that we read, and study, and debate (ad nauseum) that was written , I believe , mostly at Gods direction. I have always called it our "handbook"

First for God "chosen" then after Jesus came, for us.

I cannot count the number of debates and discussions from those who will say the OT is not for us.... we have been given a new covenant... and how many times I have countered with...Yes, that is so ... but even Jesus said
in Mathew 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
And I thought if Jesus was sent to them.... and likely so as to his bloodline from Mary and the lineage from Joseph back to David.... if they had been a wee bit more observing and obedient.... WE WOULD NOT be in the position we are.

Argue that all you want. Jesus came only for them... and had it not been for the faith of one woman who needed a child healed I am not at all certain where we might be headed.

And then I am reminded that when Abraham was given the son Ishmael and God made of him a great nation also.. so there was a divide, and I wonder if God would deliberately make a soul.. a great nation stemming from that soul ... one at odds with "Christianity" only to eventually have them be destroyed in the end...

Or did God make a second nations with differing guidances from us who will ultimately make it to heaven... as they believe?

We are taught we are the only ones that will make it to the heavenly Kingdom... with Jesus. Thank you God....

But could not others makke it to another part of heaven in God's plan?

IDK

 

[Cassandra]

The reason for a Saved life is not just to "get to Heaven." It is to bring glory to God, representing in our Saved lives what Christian Salvation means for mankind.

Randy, sorry I missed this!! It is wonderful.

So I think the question is: If your only time with Jesus was here, would you still love Him?

 

[Lambano]

The reason for a Saved life is not just to "get to Heaven."

Randy, sorry I missed this!! It is wonderful.

So I think the question is: If your only time with Jesus was here, would you still love Him?

What a great question!

 

[St. SteVen]

I cannot count the number of debates and discussions from those who will say the OT is not for us.... we have been given a new covenant... and how many times I have countered with...Yes, that is so ... but even Jesus said
in Mathew 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
And I thought if Jesus was sent to them.... and likely so as to his bloodline from Mary and the lineage from Joseph back to David.... if they had been a wee bit more observing and obedient.... WE WOULD NOT be in the position we are.

What do you make of this?

John 10:16 NIV
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.
They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

/

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy, sorry I missed this!! It is wonderful.

So I think the question is: If your only time with Jesus was here, would you still love Him?

I would probably be too bitter that He's relegated me to a temporary friend.

 

[Cassandra]

I would probably be too bitter that He's relegated me to a temporary friend.

Then I have to ask, Is your love contingent on eternal life? Think I'm gonna make this a topic

 

[Randy Kluth]

Then I have to ask, Is your love contingent on eternal life? Think I'm gonna make this a topic

Yes, the God I serve has to be true to His promises. If not, then He isn't God. You see, it's a hypothetical, and you can look at it in two ways. The animals do not thank God for their temporary lives. The fallen angels do not regard eternity with God of central importance. I do.

 

[St. SteVen]

Then I have to ask, Is your love contingent on eternal life? Think I'm gonna make this a topic

That's a great idea.
I saw a similar topic on another forum and I was amazed at the disconnect that exists about this subject.

The horrifying bottom line was the poll responses and posts that declared that
if the afterlife was not part of the equation, they wouldn't bother with Jesus. ???
They saw zero benefit in the here and now. I was floored by the response.

/

 

[O'Darby]

That's a great idea.
I saw a similar topic on another forum and I was amazed at the disconnect that exists about this subject.

The horrifying bottom line was the poll responses and posts that declared that
if the afterlife was not part of the equation, they wouldn't bother with Jesus. ???
They saw zero benefit in the here and now. I was floored by the response.

/

But the reality is, apart from the salvation and eternal life aspects Jesus was no more profound than many other spiritual teachers. This is what those whose Christianity exists in a biblical vacuum fail to realize. Many of Jesus' teachings had precedents in Judaism and have counterparts in other religions. If Christian metaphysics aren't ontologically true, then Jesus is just another sage. The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path of Buddhism are at least as profound as anything in Christianity.

In a mystical classic, Cosmic Consciousness (1901), Canadian psychiatrist Richard Maurice Bucke examined the lives of many individiuals who seemed to him to have the enlightened spirituality he characterized as "cosmic consciousness." He ranked Jesus high, but not as high as several others.

Which doesn't mean I "wouldn't bother with" Jesus if I knew Christian metaphysics were false, but I'd simply take Him for whatever I found His teachings to be worth. In all honesty, I would have to say that at the level of daily living many other philosophers and sages have informed my spirituality as much or more than Jesus. If Jesus isn't in a unique category, which hinges on the truth of Christian metaphysics, then He's just another sage.

If the question assumed God existed, Jesus was the Son, yada yada, but there simply were no salvation or afterlife - well, that's pretty much what many ancient Jews did believe (sans Jesus, of course). I suppose then I'd be forced to regard Jesus as more than just another sage, but I'm not sure what difference it would make to my life.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

What do you make of this?

John 10:16 NIV
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.
They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

/

I believe it was the truth WHEN Jesus said he came for only the lost sheep of Israel and
it was not yet approaching the time of the Gentiles.

Then, eventually,
"Other sheep I have which are not of this fold"These other sheep are Gentile believers, not of the fold of Israel. Jesus said that He must bring these sheep also, who would also hear His voice.

There may be a tie between Matthew and Jesus being sent for the lost sheep and then John
when Jesus said he must bring the sheep not of the fold also... and when Paul
talks of The grafted in in Romans.... perhaps... I am only tossinng this out there... that Jesus wanted to be sure those of his flock were true to him or He missed noone and then He would go after those from a different flock?

If that makes no sense just ignore me

 

[Wrangler]

@Rella ~ I am a woman, I noticed the new suffix to your screen name. Hilarious!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

@Rella ~ I am a woman, I noticed the new suffix to your screen name. Hilarious!

WEll, if they insist I am a man after that.... I give up. LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

Which doesn't mean I "wouldn't bother with" Jesus if I knew Christian metaphysics were false, but I'd simply take Him for whatever I found His teachings to be worth. In all honesty, I would have to say that at the level of daily living many other philosophers and sages have informed my spirituality as much or more than Jesus. If Jesus isn't in a unique category, which hinges on the truth of Christian metaphysics, then He's just another sage.

Thanks for your post.
How is it that you arrived at Christianity in the first place?
Do you have a conversion story?

I understand that you are moving away, or at least leaning in that direction.
But how did you get here in the first place?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

If that makes no sense just ignore me

LOL

Do you remember the end of the story after Jesus said,
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." ?

Matthew 15:22-28 NIV
A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out,
“Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me!
My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him,
“Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.”
And her daughter was healed at that moment.

'

 

[O'Darby]

Thanks for your post.
How is it that you arrived at Christianity in the first place?
Do you have a conversion story?

I understand that you are moving away, or at least leaning in that direction.
But how did you get here in the first place?

/

O'Darby's Slightly Odd Testimony

My long and winding journey from being born again to actually believing.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

O'Darby's Slightly Odd Testimony

My long and winding journey from being born again to actually believing.

www.christianityboard.com

Thanks.
I wonder if you need to re-read your own testimony to help you sort our where you are at. ???

/

 

[Cassandra]

Yes, the God I serve has to be true to His promises. If not, then He isn't God. You see, it's a hypothetical, and you can look at it in two ways. The animals do not thank God for their temporary lives. The fallen angels do not regard eternity with God of central importance. I do.

It was you who wrote "The reason for a Saved life is not just to "get to Heaven." " I was asking you if you think if there were no heavenly reward, would you still love Him ( which is why I quoted you.) I thought that is what you meant. Not talking about whether a promise is true. I want to know if you love Him just because He is.

 

[O'Darby]

Thanks.
I wonder if you need to re-read your own testimony to help you sort our where you are at. ???

/

No, I have that well in hand.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It was you who wrote "The reason for a Saved life is not just to "get to Heaven." " I was asking you if you think if there were no heavenly reward, would you still love Him ( which is why I quoted you.) I thought that is what you meant. Not talking about whether a promise is true. I want to know if you love Him just because He is.

Paul himself said, "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." (1 Cor 15.19).

It makes no sense to suffer for obeying Christ and witnessing for him, suffering rejection and persecution, if we are only living for the present life. Obviously, God is always worthy of praise, whether we live for eternity or not.

You asked the question, and I answered it as honestly as I could. It is an hypothetical--it isn't real. If God only gave us this present life, it's a false God. He's not like that.

But if He was like that, He would be a different God, and I likely would not serve Him, incurring needless suffering for what?

You misrepresent me. When I said that Salvation was for more than just getting us saved my implication was that God wants more from us than just qualifying for heaven. He wants us to do a work while we're here on earth, testifying to the truth of God in this sinful world. He wants to show the world what He's like through us.

 

[Cassandra]

Paul himself said, "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." (1 Cor 15.19).

It makes no sense to suffer for obeying Christ and witnessing for him, suffering rejection and persecution, if we are only living for the present life. Obviously, God is always worthy of praise, whether we live for eternity or not.

You asked the question, and I answered it as honestly as I could. It is an hypothetical--it isn't real. If God only gave us this present life, it's a false God. He's not like that.

But if He was like that, He would be a different God, and I likely would not serve Him, incurring needless suffering for what?

You misrepresent me. When I said that Salvation was for more than just getting us saved my implication was that God wants more from us than just qualifying for heaven. He wants us to do a work while we're here on earth, testifying to the truth of God in this sinful world. He wants to show the world what He's like through us.

II just posted what you said. I'm sorry if that is not what you meant. I was just happy that someone loves Him without tit for tat.