God's Heavenly Government: Why Its Not A Monarchy

[brakelite]

God's Kingdom is not a republic, even in an extremely limited sense, for Jehovah will not allow any trace of human governmental thinking to be implemented in his perfect governmental system. For example, in making an altar to use in worship of Jehovah, Exodus 20 states that "if you make an altar of stones for me, you must not build it using stones cut with tools (or through human means). For if you do use your chisel on it, you will profane it (or make it worthless in God's eyes)".(Ex 20:25)

Hence, at Daniel 2:34, it says that "a stone was cut out, not by hands (or through human means or politics, see Exodus 20:25), and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them". Then at Daniel 2:44, it states that "in the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed......It will crush and put to all these kingdoms (with the "feet and toes of iron and clay" being the dual world power of Britain/America), and it alone will stand forever".

Next, it says that "just as you saw that out of the mountain (or Jehovah's universal sovereignty) a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold". Thus, God's Kingdom has not one trace of human governmental structure in it, but is pure in it being a theocracy or God ruled, with all judicial, legislative, and executive authority resting with Jehovah, whereby Isaiah 33:22 states: "For Jehovah is our Judge, Jehovah is our Lawgiver, Jehovah is our King".

Jesus pointed out this "stone" as God's Kingdom, telling the wicked Jewish religious leaders: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Ps 118:22), ' The stone that the builders (or Jewish religious leaders who were supposed to build or fortify the nation by teaching Jehovah's laws and guidelines) rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone (with Jesus as the"chief cornerstone" or central one of God's Kingdom, see 2 Cor 1:20). This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes. This is why I say to you (the Jewish religious leaders who were to take the lead in teaching the nation of Israel about Jehovah), the Kingdom of God will be taken from you (having this privilege given to them at Exodus 19:5, 6 some 1,500 years before at Mt Sinai) and be given to nation (see Isa 66:7, 8) producing its fruits (or conduct that dignifies and honors the Kingdom, imitating Jehovah God, see Col 3:9, 10). Also, the person falling on this stone (or God's Kingdom) will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him".(Matt 21:42-44)

Thus, God's Kingdom is a pure theocracy, having not one trace of political or human ideology within it.

Please explain then how it is men are appointed as Kings and priests, ruling with Christ on His throne and judging even angels? This tells me that humans are very heavily involved in administrating God's government.

 

[brakelite]

If you're trying to keep yourself out of hell by following the 10 commandments, or your laundry list of righteous things to do then it's works.

Do you believe the only purpose of faith based grace salvation was to get you to heaven?

 

[Phoneman777]

No, believers don't think that. Believers pretty much think the opposite of whatever you're peddling. Mainly because they already know they're continually saved by grace and not works in their walk. You have to obtain grace first in order to be thankful for it. God bless.

The KJV says Satan "trafficked" (peddled) lies. Why traffick this falsehood that I believe salvation starts with grace and ends with works? I believe the Bible: that it's only by grace through faith which produces works. Likewise, the absence of works evidences the absence of grace.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman, A worthy topic. May I call attention to these verses as to where our walk with the Lord is heading for us. It is clear in Scripture that as we abide in Christ so we also share in His sovereignty and administration as kings and priests.
Rev 1:5-6
(5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:9-10
(9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
(10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:6
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Dan 7:27
(27) And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Thank you. Those who choose to focus on human weakness - and thus invent reasons for why their religious experience is fraught with continuous failure while presumptuously calling themselves "more than conquerors" - instead of focusing on the noble, royal, empowered character that Christ imparts to the helpless, surrendered Christian - should redirect their attention to the verses you've shared.

 

[Phoneman777]

Evening here dear Brother Phoneman777.

There is probably more that we agree on than of that we don't. There is profit in obedience to God, but to me the law absolutely shows us our very lack of ability to keep it.

Friend, I used to believe that until someone asked me if "I can do all things through Christ Which strengthens me" applies to everything or everything except obedience to the law. I realized I was trying to keep it in my own strength.

Satan has never forced anyone to sin - it has always been by our own choice, right or wrong? "We can't keep the law" is really a cowardly attempt to excuse what is really at the heart of the matter: "We can't consistently choose to keep the law".

We can't get help unless we recognize the problem: that we love sin too much to stop. But, if we humble ourselves and beg God for a love for the Savior and hatred for the sin which crucified Him, He can then take us by the hand and begin to help us learn to walk with Him, knowing that if we stumble, He's got us by the hand. Therefore, it's not a matter of skill or lack thereof (can/can't), but a matter of the will (choice). Always has been, always will be.

 

[larry2]

Satan has never forced anyone to sin - it has always been by our own choice, right or wrong? "We can't keep the law" is really a cowardly attempt to excuse what is really at the heart of the matter: "We can't consistently choose to keep the law".

Have you sinned since coming to Christ?
Do you feel that you were lost at that moment?
What of sin no more?
Were you no longer born of God? because 1 Jn 5:18 says "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not . .

How do you interpret the following scripture?
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If you lost your salvation due to sin after having received the gift of God which is eternal life, should we really have read it as having only conditional life?
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. What rest is this?

I'd like to ask one more thing for the moment, and 1Jn 5:17 says, All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
In your opinion what is this, and what is the eternal consequence? Are there examples you're aware of? Thanks.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Do you believe the only purpose of faith based grace salvation was to get you to heaven?

no, especially if u live long enough unlike the thief

 

[Heb 13:8]

The KJV says Satan "trafficked" (peddled) lies. Why traffick this falsehood that I believe salvation starts with grace and ends with works? I believe the Bible: that it's only by grace through faith which produces works. Likewise, the absence of works evidences the absence of grace.

Right, and James 2 is referring to Godly righteousness being the result of those works, not losing salvation. Believing you can lose salvation because of lack of works or lack of Godly righteousness is peddling that lie.

 

[Phoneman777]

Have you sinned since coming to Christ?

Has anyone ever forced you to sin?

Do you feel that you were lost at that moment?

Should a person feel good about crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame?

What of sin no more?

Do you believe all of Jesus' biddings are enablings?

Were you no longer born of God? because 1 Jn 5:18 says "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not . .

Do you understand that their is a Biblical distinction between stumbling into sin and deliberately sitting down in it with no intention to get up?

How do you interpret the following scripture?
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The schoolmaster was the Mosaic Law designed to teach the severity of sin, that it caused the death of the innocent victim, that it was to inspire repentance and conversion, and to prepare the people to receive Jesus when He came.

If you lost your salvation due to sin after having received the gift of God which is eternal life, should we really have read it as having only conditional life?

God's love is unconditional - His salvation is very much conditional - on repentance. Does the concept of Repentance include continuing to do the things that made necessary the death of Jesus on the Cross in the first place?

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. What rest is this?

"For he (the Christian) that is entered into His rest (Jesus' spiritual rest), he (the Christian) hast ceased from his own works (literal work, toil, labor, etc.) as God did from His (as God rested from His literal work, toil, labor on the seventh day Sabbath)." IOW, "he that spiritually rests inwardly in Jesus will rest literally outwardly from his work on the seventh day Sabbath". There's simply no other way to interpret this verse.

I'd like to ask one more thing for the moment, and 1Jn 5:17 says, All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
In your opinion what is this, and what is the eternal consequence? Are there examples you're aware of? Thanks. [/QUOTE] The "sin unto death" is the Unpardonable Sin - when one has "seared their conscience with a hot iron" so that one no longer feels the impress of the Holy Spirit leading to repentance...whereas "sin that is not unto death" is a sin of which one is still capable of repentance.

The Hidden Line (The Destiny of Men)

by Joseph Addison Alexander (1809-1860)

There is a time, we know not when,
A point we know not where,
That marks the destiny of men
To glory or despair.

There is a line by us unseen,
That crosses every path;
The hidden boundary between
God’s patience and his wrath.

To pass that limit is to die–
To die as if by stealth;
It does not quench the beaming eye
Or pale the glow of health.

The conscience may be still at ease,
The spirit lithe and gay;
That which pleases still may please,
And care be thrust away

But on that forehead God has set,
Indelibly a mark
Unseen by men, for men as yet
Are blind and in the dark

And yet doomed man’s path below
May bloom as Eden bloomed;
He did not, does not, will not know,
Or feel that he is doomed

He knows, he feels that all is well,
And every fear is calmed;
He lives, he dies, he wakes in hell,
Not only doomed, but damned.

Oh, where is this mysterious bourn
By which our path is crossed;
Beyond which God himself hath sworn,
That he who goes is lost.

How far may we go on in sin?
How long will God forbear?
Where does hope end, and where begin
The confines of despair?

An answer from the skies is sent,
"Ye that from God depart,
While it is called today, repent,
And harden not your heart."

- Joseph Addison Alexander -

 

[Heb 13:8]

The "sin unto death" is the Unpardonable Sin - when one has "seared their conscience with a hot iron" so that one no longer feels the impress of the Holy Spirit leading to repentance...whereas "sin that is not unto death" is a sin of which one is still capable of repentance.

No, the unpardonable sin is dying in unbelief of the death, burial and resurrection.

Is there really a difference in Saul persecuting Christians vs accusing them of sin.

Looks like Saul might have a laptop

 

[Phoneman777]

Right, and James 2 is referring to Godly righteousness being the result of those works, not losing salvation. Believing you can lose salvation because of lack of works or lack of Godly righteousness is peddling that lie.

You lose your salvation when sin replaces God on the throne of your heart. The belief in OSAS - that both sin and salvation simultaneously occupy the throne of a man's heart - is a lie straight from the pits of hell.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, the unpardonable sin is dying in unbelief of the death, burial and resurrection.

Is there really a difference in Saul persecuting Christians vs accusing them of sin.

Looks like Saul might have a laptop

No, as I previously stated, the Unpardonable Sin is a sin for which pardon is not possible because pardon is not sought - the conscience has burned out and feels no impress of the Holy Spirit to seek it. Dying in unbelief is the consequence of committing the Unpardonable Sin, not the Unpardonable Sin itself.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The Hidden Line (The Destiny of Men)

by Joseph Addison Alexander (1809-1860)

There is a line by us unseen,
That crosses every path;
The hidden boundary between
God’s patience and his wrath.

Feeling condemned by the law are we?

Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Rom 4:15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

 

[Phoneman777]

Feeling condemned by the law are we?

Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Rom 4:15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Feeling that false security of OSAS, are we? Why comfort oneself with a lie?

OSAS is the belief which claims that which may be obtained only by living faith - eternal life - may be obtained by the dead faith. James makes it so clear about the difference between living faith which produces works and dead faith which will make the Lake of Fire burn more brightly.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You lose your salvation when sin replaces God on the throne of your heart. The belief in OSAS - that both sin and salvation simultaneously occupy the throne of a man's heart - is a lie straight from the pits of hell.

No Phone, you lose your salvation when you never had it in the first place. Repentance is not a work to keep salvation, it's a gift through God by the sanctification process. Pits of hell is found here.. Matt 7:22-23.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No, as I previously stated, the Unpardonable Sin is a sin for which pardon is not possible because pardon is not sought - the conscience has burned out and feels no impress of the Holy Spirit to seek it. Dying in unbelief is the consequence of committing the Unpardonable Sin, not the Unpardonable Sin itself.

No, you must be born again to see the kingdom of God, and to be born again you must believe in the death, burial and resurrection. The lake of fire is for those that have died in unbelief, those who's names are not written in the book of life.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Feeling that false security of OSAS, are we? Why comfort oneself with a lie?

OSAS is the belief which claims that which may be obtained only by living faith - eternal life - may be obtained by the dead faith. James makes it so clear about the difference between living faith which produces works and dead faith which will make the Lake of Fire burn more brightly.

No, OSAS actually is secure in Christ. Does Phone lie or does God lie? Time is short to come to Christ, via the urgency.

Heb 6:17-20 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Phoneman777]

No Phone, you lose your salvation when you never had it in the first place. Repentance is not a work to keep salvation, it's a gift through God by the sanctification process. Pits of hell is found here.. Matt 7:22-23.

No, you cannot lose something you never had in the first place, Heb. Can you lose your Civil War musket?

If Jesus believed in the lie of OSAS, He never would have said things like:

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love ("agape" - it is foolish to think the lost can obtain "agape" while yet lost) of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure (endure what, if OSAS is true?) to the end, the same shall be saved."

"I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned."

 

[Phoneman777]

No, you must be born again to see the kingdom of God, and to be born again you must believe in the death, burial and resurrection. The lake of fire is for those that have died in unbelief, those who's names are not written in the book of life.

The devils believe that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again...yet they are lost, aren't they?

 

[Phoneman777]

No, OSAS actually is secure in Christ. Does Phone lie or does God lie? Time is short to come to Christ, via the urgency.

Heb 6:17-20 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

No, OSAS is no security to anyone except those who love sin. The only security the Bible speaks of is the security of walking "as He walked" in obedience to God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT". Romans 8:1 (I realize that the second half of this verse has been intentionally left out of the newer versions, because it hurts the cause of Satan. Which is why I always recommend the KJV).