God's Heavenly Government: Why Its Not A Monarchy

[Heb 13:8]

No, you cannot lose something you never had in the first place, Heb. Can you lose your Civil War musket?

If Jesus believed in the lie of OSAS, He never would have said things like:

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love ("agape" - it is foolish to think the lost can obtain "agape" while yet lost) of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure (endure what, if OSAS is true?) to the end, the same shall be saved."

"I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned."

Well, the lost remain the lost I suppose. Matt 24:12 is a different dispensation and is referring to Christians who are watching their friends be beheaded in the 70th week (5th seal). Would your love be quenched if you witnessed that?

Wickedness from nonbelievers are the result of believers love waxing cold.

Matt 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Matt 24:12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

John 15 is an allegory, same way you don't prove soul sleep through Luke 16.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The devils believe that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again...yet they are lost, aren't they?

They're lost because they don't believe Jesus is their savior. You're believing in a savior in Rom 10:9.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, the lost remain the lost I suppose. Matt 24:12 is a different dispensation and is referring to Christians who are watching their friends be beheaded in the 70th week (5th seal). Would your love be quenched if you witnessed that?

Wickedness from nonbelievers are the result of believers love waxing cold.

Matt 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Matt 24:12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

John 15 is an allegory, same way you don't prove soul sleep through Luke 16.

Oh, please. Dispensationalism is Plymouth Brethren lagniappe that was tacked on to the lie of Jesuit Futurism. There is no "last seven years of tribulation", "coming future Antichrist", or "second chance before the Second Coming".

The church is not going anywhere until Jesus comes gloriously, cacaphonically, and cataclysmically. Only then will "the dead in Christ" and "we that are alive and remain" be caught up.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No, OSAS is no security to anyone except those who love sin. The only security the Bible speaks of is the security of walking "as He walked" in obedience to God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT". Romans 8:1 (I realize that the second half of this verse has been intentionally left out of the newer versions, because it hurts the cause of Satan. Which is why I always recommend the KJV).

And believers "loving sin" is not biblical, less you be the accuser of the spirit. What is biblical is believers obtaining Godly sorrow. Those who feel condemned are those who do not believe in the death, burial and resurrection. Is why they push so hard to sell that drug

Jhn 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

"It's more of a spirit of pride. Human pride opposes salvation being a free gift. Human pride wants to deserve salvation. You would think that knowing that you can be saved without having to live up to God's standard of perfection would bring relief and hope and it does, but for some, they prefer to slog it out, trying to be good enough to deserve Heaven. Human pride wants to appeal to its own merit, and hard work as if salvation is something to win or to earn.

To human pride, there is something somewhat romantic about the spiritual quest, of seasons of fasting and self-abasement and ascetism and enlightenment, something about a journey in search of truth. That is more far more desirable to those ruled by their pride than the truth that we are nothing but worms, and miserable wretches who deserve nothing but God's contempt. Human pride doesn't take into account how offensive and repugnant our sin is to God. We have lost sight of that. We don't realize what we look like to God.

So human pride wants to, at best, make salvation a synthesis of God's grace and human effort. Human effort is either placed at the front or at the end. We either must work to get saved or we have to work to stay saved. Either way, at some point, salvation still depends on us from a pride standpoint. To those ruled by pride, salvation can never actually be "free." That is the spirit behind the anti-OSAS mentality."

- shiloh357 www(dot)worthychristianforums(dot)com

 

[Phoneman777]

They're lost because they don't believe Jesus is their savior. You're believing in a savior in Rom 10:9.

OK, now you're making it up as you go. There's not a single verse indicating the devils are lost because they rejected salvation.

They are lost because they refused to give up their rebellion.

What makes you think the fate of those who turn from serving God to serve sin will be any different? Certainly not Scripture.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Oh, please. Dispensationalism is Plymouth Brethren lagniappe that was tacked on to the lie of Jesuit Futurism. There is no "last seven years of tribulation", "coming future Antichrist", or "second chance before the Second Coming".

The church is not going anywhere until Jesus comes gloriously, cacaphonically, and cataclysmically. Only then will "the dead in Christ" and "we that are alive and remain" be caught up.

No, there's actually a seven year trib. Since Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17 believers have been on high alert to spread the Gospel with more eagerness. The word harpazo is in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. Notice Rev 12:5 comes prior to Satan falling to earth.

 

[Heb 13:8]

OK, now you're making it up as you go. There's not a single verse indicating the devils are lost because they rejected salvation.

They are lost because they refused to give up their rebellion.

What makes you think the fate of those who turn from serving God to serve sin will be any different? Certainly not Scripture.

And believers do not "serve sin", less you be the accuser of the spirit. do u not even know when you accuse?

 

[Phoneman777]

And believers "loving sin" is not biblical, less you be the accuser of the spirit.

This is a totally subjective statement which makes no sense. If "believers" love God more than they love the pleasures of sin for a season, they why are they sinning?

What is biblical is believers obtaining Godly sorrow. Those who feel condemned are those who do not believe in the death, burial and resurrection.

No, those who feel condemned are those to whom the Holy Spirit comes and "convicts the world of sin" (John 16:8-11 KJV) which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Those who claim to know Jesus but feel no condemnation for the sin they freely indulge have committed the Unpardonable Sin and are lost. (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

"It's more of a spirit of pride. Human pride opposes salvation being a free gift. Human pride wants to deserve salvation. You would think that knowing that you can be saved without having to live up to God's standard of perfection would bring relief and hope and it does, but for some, they prefer to slog it out, trying to be good enough to deserve Heaven. Human pride wants to appeal to its own merit, and hard work as if salvation is something to win or to earn."

You're confusing legalism with license, the two ditches into which the erring may fall and be eternally lost. The "License to Sin" ditch of OSAS says we may obtain by dead faith that which may be obtained only by living faith. The Legalism ditch says we may by our own efforts obtain that which only faith in Jesus' merits may obtain. The true ground of "Righteousness by Faith" says there is not justification without sanctification, by which both lead to glorification.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, there's actually a seven year trib. Since Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17 believers have been on high alert to spread the Gospel with more eagerness. The word harpazo is in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. Notice Rev 12:5 comes prior to Satan falling to earth.

How can there be a seven year period of anything if Peter says when the Lord comes as a thief in the night, the entire planet will all but blow up?

 

[Phoneman777]

And believers do not "serve sin", less you be the accuser of the spirit. do u not even know when you accuse?

I'll let the Bible do the accusing:

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:3-5 KJV

 

[Heb 13:8]

This is a totally subjective statement which makes no sense. If "believers" love God more than they love the pleasures of sin for a season, they why are they sinning?

No, those who feel condemned are those to whom the Holy Spirit comes and "convicts the world of sin" (John 16:8-11 KJV) which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Those who claim to know Jesus but feel no condemnation for the sin they freely indulge have committed the Unpardonable Sin and are lost. (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

You're confusing legalism with license, the two ditches into which the erring may fall and be eternally lost. The "License to Sin" ditch of OSAS says we may obtain by dead faith that which may be obtained only by living faith. The Legalism ditch says we may by our own efforts obtain that which only faith in Jesus' merits may obtain. The true ground of "Righteousness by Faith" says there is not justification without sanctification, by which both lead to glorification.

Why do believers sin? Because we live in a fallen world that is subjected to temptation and sin. Really Phone?

I'm not talking about those who claim to know Jesus but aren't born again. I'm talking about true believers in Christ who are born again.

The term license to sin is not biblical because discipline and sanctification and the power of God trump that.

In order to believe in the power of God one must believe in the death, burial and resurrection and become born again.

 

[Heb 13:8]

How can there be a seven year period of anything if Peter says when the Lord comes as a thief in the night, the entire planet will all but blow up?

Because the "Day of the Lord" spans all the way from rapture to the New Earth. 1 Thess 5:1-11, 2 Thess 2:8, 2 Pet 3:10.

 

[Phoneman777]

Why do believers sin? Because we live in a fallen world that is subjected to temptation and sin. Really Phone?

Why can't you distinguish between "a just man falls seven times and rises up again" and "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but whosoever confesseth AND forsaketh his sin shall have mercy"???? I've not been referring to the stumbling that often happens as we grow in grace - I'm talking of the deliberate, known sin with which the Holy Spirit confronts "believers" from which they refuse to turn. They were saved, but that refusal eventually causes them to be lost when they burn out their conscience.

I'm not talking about those who claim to know Jesus but aren't born again. I'm talking about true believers in Christ who are born again.

I'm talking about those who are born again, but decide at some point to stop growing in grace.

• Babies who stop growing end up at a tearful funeral.
• Planes that stop moving forward drop from the sky.
• Branches that drop off from the Vine whither and die and are burned in the fire.

But you somehow think that OSAS is legit.

The term license to sin is not biblical because discipline and sanctification and the power of God trump that.

The power of God will NEVER cover the deliberate, known, presumptuous sin that OSAS sanctions.

"He that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but whosover confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy."

"Keep back Thy servant also from presumptuous sins. Let them not have dominion over me. Then shall I be upright and be innocent of the GREAT TRANSGRESSION."

In order to believe in the power of God one must believe in the death, burial and resurrection and become born again.

The devils believe that God is omnipotent, but tremble.

 

[Phoneman777]

Because the "Day of the Lord" spans all the way from rapture to the New Earth. 1 Thess 5:1-11, 2 Thess 2:8, 2 Pet 3:10.

Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 1 Thess.
Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 2 Thess.
Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 2 Pet.\

No, the "day of the Lord" is the day when the Lord comes back and gathers the resurrected and abiding saints, destroys the living wicked along with everything on the Earth, and leaves nothing behind but utter darkness and silence. But, you Jesuit Futurists always have something going on down here, despite the many verses of Scripture which speak of an empty, desolate, dark, silent, lifeless planet to come.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I'll let the Bible do the accusing:

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:3-5 KJV

And that's what believers do, but they keep the commandments out of thankfulness of the cross not to keep their salvation. The rapture is the blessed hope. At this point I don't feel like you know what your doing.

Neh 6:13 They were hoping to intimidate me and make me sin. Then they would be able to accuse and discredit me.

Job 1:6 One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.

Psa 27:12 Do not let me fall into their hands. For they accuse me of things I've never done; with every breath they threaten me with violence.

Psa 31:18 Silence their lying lips— those proud and arrogant lips that accuse the godly.

Psa 35:11 Malicious witnesses testify against me. They accuse me of crimes I know nothing about.

Isa 50:8 He who vindicates me is near. Who then will bring charges against me? Let us face each other! Who is my accuser? Let him confront me!

Isa 54:17 But in that coming day no weapon turned against you will succeed. You will silence every voice raised up to accuse you. These benefits are enjoyed by the servants of the LORD; their vindication will come from me. I, the LORD, have spoken!

Jer 2:29 Why do you accuse me of doing wrong? You are the ones who have rebelled,” says the LORD.

Eze 22:9 People accuse others falsely and send them to their death. You are filled with idol worshipers and people who do obscene things.

Zec 3:1 Then the angel showed me Jeshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD. The Accuser, Satan, was there at the angel's right hand, making accusations against Jeshua.

Jhn 8:46 Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe me?

Act 24:13 These men cannot prove the things they accuse me of doing.

Act 26:7 In fact, that is why the twelve tribes of Israel zealously worship God night and day, and they share the same hope I have. Yet, Your Majesty, they accuse me for having this hope!

Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

1Pe 2:12 Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world.

Jde 1:9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses' body.)

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why can't you distinguish between "a just man falls seven times and rises up again" and "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but whosoever confesseth AND forsaketh his sin shall have mercy"????

Phone, covering sin is referring to quenching the spirit, not losing salvation. It's simply stating a fact about covering sin.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The devils believe that God is omnipotent, but tremble.

and yet, they don't believe Jesus is their Savior.

 

[Phoneman777]

And that's what believers do, but they keep the commandments out of thankfulness of the cross not to keep their salvation.

The point is OSAS makes commandment keeping optional, not obligatory - which is why OSAS appeals so much to those who claim to be "believers" but refuse to give up their iniquitous, presumptuous, deliberate, known sin. If you're truly a believer, then why didn't you "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" today? Were you in church worshiping Jesus today? Are you aware that Jesus is disappointed that so many churches were locked today when He came to meet with His "believers"? Are you aware that Sunday is just as much a "work day" as it was since Sinai? It's time to stop making it up as we go and start doing it Jesus' way.

 

[Phoneman777]

Phone, covering sin is referring to quenching the spirit, not losing salvation. It's simply stating a fact about covering sin.

If you think that quenching the Spirit is not synonymous with losing salvation, then there's nothing more than I can say.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 1 Thess.
Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 2 Thess.
Not a single intimation of "day = epoch" in 2 Pet.\

No, the "day of the Lord" is the day when the Lord comes back and gathers the resurrected and abiding saints, destroys the living wicked along with everything on the Earth, and leaves nothing behind but utter darkness and silence. But, you Jesuit Futurists always have something going on down here, despite the many verses of Scripture which speak of an empty, desolate, dark, silent, lifeless planet to come.

No, the last trump is not the great trump. The word in Matt 24:31 is episunagó, not harpazo. Jesuit Futurist? Phone, read the Greek. lol