God's Will vs God's Desire

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But isnt it the "invisible things of God" that are seen: His power, love, attributes, are seen in the things that are made - not nature itself? He is outside the physical realm, He is spirit and His power holds the physical realm together.
Really like your comments here. I see it that His attributes are things that are known of Him and are confirmed by the eye (nature), similar to Heb 11:3.

"For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." (NLT). I usually don't use the NLT but sometimes it does help a bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi, and thanks for the reply and comments! I like this point you make. I think if God coerced anyone He would be "trespassing." If the light of nature doesn't cause one to seek God, nothing will. I do not think there are any true atheists:

Paul wrote that all men unavoidably (when matured) come to "know" there is a God "because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them" (Rom 1:19, 21). This inner learning for all is "because the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Rom 1:20).

All that live to a mature age are made accountable for their choices, as God insures that nature itself confirms within that He is real. Of course there is and eternal difference (pun intended) between just knowing about God (Jas 2:19), and knowing God.

Hope I didn't rattle on too much.
I remember the first time I knew God existed. I was about 10 or 11, one night looking into the sky. And it just seemed obvious.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Renniks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
16Rejoice always, 17pray continually, 18give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
Do we always do this? No? Then God's will doesn't always happen.

3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable,

Do all believers follow this? No? Then God's will isn't being done all the time.
The terms I've learned are God's decretive will, and God's prescriptive will. There is what God makes happen and what God wants us to do but does not make us do.

I'd say that God's decretive will - what He decrees - is always fulfilled, but His prescriptive will is just that, He tells us what He wants of us, but we choose whether to submit or not.

Much love!
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The terms I've learned are God's decretive will, and God's prescriptive will. There is what God makes happen and what God wants us to do but does not make us do.

I'd say that God's decretive will - what He decrees - is always fulfilled, but His prescriptive will is just that, He tells us what He wants of us, but we choose whether to submit or not.

Much love!
HI and thanks for the input! The point the article makes concerns God's will relating to that all have are subjected to His will concerning the final outcome of each, i.e. what we receive concerning His will if we reject Him, and for receiving Him (hard to explain clearly).
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
HI and thanks for the input! The point the article makes concerns God's will relating to that all have are subjected to His will concerning the final outcome of each, i.e. what we receive concerning His will if we reject Him, and for receiving Him (hard to explain clearly).
Ok, I think maybe I'm understanding what you are saying.

God's will is that each choose, and having chosen, it will happen to them according to God's will concerning the result of the choice.

God's will being that all men choose whether to submit to Him or not, and God's will being that all who submit will live, and all who do not will not. And God's desire is that all men choose Him.

Is this better?

Much love!
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,476
17,040
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everything that transpires in life is supposed to occur, otherwise it wouldn't happen, because nothing happens without God's foreknowledge and Him allowing it to come to pass!

Everyone does God's will, but most do not to do His desires! Even though it has always been that God “desires all men to be saved” (1Ti 2:4; 2Pe 3:9), His will—or way—is that only those who “choose life . . . “will live” (Deu 30:19). Thus, everyone does God's will, but most choose not to do His desires!

We know that our loving God does everything “according to His good pleasure” (Eph 1:9), and that prior to creation, He knew “many” (that is, most) of mankind would choose “the way that leads to destruction,” and that “few” (in comparison to the many) would choose “the way which leads unto life” (Mat 7:13, 14 – becoming more obvious all the time).

I would think it doubtless to conceive that He knew there would be great worth in gaining the “few,” as evidenced by the “joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents” (Luk 15:10).

Satan has a will which he forces on people to do at times which is evil and sometimes people just choose to do evil. So with your idea God's will includes evil of will. That idea seems to flow into blasphemy so I'll steer clear of it.

The devil is evil continually and God is good continually, they are opposites and you can observe people following either. The devil and his angels will be cast in the lake of fire in the end. God has eternal life in heaven.

Psalm 34:8 "O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him."
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok, I think maybe I'm understanding what you are saying.

God's will is that each choose, and having chosen, it will happen to them according to God's will concerning the result of the choice.

God's will being that all men choose whether to submit to Him or not, and God's will being that all who submit will live, and all who do not will not. And God's desire is that all men choose Him.

Is this better?

Much love!
Well put! Thanks and God bless!
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Satan has a will which he forces on people to do at times which is evil and sometimes people just choose to do evil
Thanks for the input, but I don't see your comment resembling the main subject that it's His will (not His desire) for unbelievers to perish and believers to live. I'll try to think if I can further explain, but doubtful that I can. God bless!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,476
17,040
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks for the input, but I don't see your comment resembling the main subject that it's His will (not His desire) for unbelievers to perish and believers to live. I'll try to think if I can further explain, but doubtful that I can. God bless!

Thanks for your patience with me, I'm a little confused, doesn't your OP say that everything that happens in life is Gods will but not his desire?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Renniks

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,807
1,855
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Really like your comments here. I see it that His attributes are things that are known of Him and are confirmed by the eye (nature), similar to Heb 11:3.

"For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." (NLT). I usually don't use the NLT but sometimes it does help a bit.
I do agree, man is without excuse except I suppose if you were physically blind ... but then there is music. Stevie Wonder was always my favorite - what a gifted talent ... He must know that it was from God.
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks for the input, but I don't see your comment resembling the main subject that it's His will (not His desire) for unbelievers to perish and believers to live. I'll try to think if I can further explain, but doubtful that I can. God bless!
I do not see evidence that God's will and God's desire are separate things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do agree, man is without excuse except I suppose if you were physically blind ... but then there is music. Stevie Wonder was always my favorite - what a gifted talent ... He must know that it was from God.
Someone said that Jimi Hendrix may not be in heaven ,but his music is. Everything good in this world comes from God.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks for your patience with me, I'm a little confused, doesn't your OP say that everything that happens in life is Gods will but not his desire?
I appreciate you asking, and I've realized that the way I worded some of the material can easily be misunderstood. I think I'll have to post another explanation because there are many on the site I share misunderstanding me. We could say that God has willed to allow everything that occurs, but the intent of the OP is that all are subject to the fact that it's His will (but not His desire) that unbelievers perish, etc. .
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,240
846
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do not see evidence that God's will and God's desire are separate things.
It depends on the usage. His will is that unbelievers perish, but it has never been His desire! Thanks for the comment.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I was thinking more about his guitar playing, than lyrics.

If he is not going to be in heaven, how is he going to play his guitar?

I, for one, do not believe that we will be worshipping the Lord in heaven with recordings. Everything will be live there.
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If he is not going to be in heaven, how is he going to play his guitar?

I, for one, do not believe that we will be worshipping the Lord in heaven with recordings. Everything will be live there.
Maybe you misunderstood. If all talent comes from God, then it seems logical to me that there's going to be music in heaven that matches and exceeds the most talented instrumentalists and singers here on earth. So, it might be an oversimplification to say that Jimi Hendrix's guitar playing will be there. Perhaps there will be similar music, though.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Maybe you misunderstood. If all talent comes from God, then it seems logical to me that there's going to be music in heaven that matches and exceeds the most talented instrumentalists and singers here on earth. So, it might be an oversimplification to say that Jimi Hendrix's guitar playing will be there. Perhaps there will be similar music, though.
Phil Keaggy is known as the Jimi Hendrix of the Christian faith.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Renniks

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Phil Keaggy is known as the Jimi Hendrix of the Christian faith.
I like Phil, but every good guitar player has his own unique style. I've never seen anyone else that could play like Stevie Ray Vaughn for example. I don't know if Stevie made it to heaven either. He died in a helicopter crash.