Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[PinSeeker]

Yes, we must DO something. Not a work... Don't be afraid of the word 'work'. Unholy grace worshippers have demonized any and all 'works' for their own sinful benefit.

LOL! "Doing something" is the very definition of a work. My goodness. So, not true at all, and frankly just a ridiculous thing to say. "Grace worshippers," as you call them (which is just laughable), actually know, correctly understand, and accept the following (among others):

"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
(Romans 11:6)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
(James 2:14-18)

Being saved by grace is committing all our works to God, and establishing our thoughts only for Him.

This is synonymous with sanctification, which is the work of the Holy Spirit within us throughout our lives after having been born again of the Spirit. And this is Philippians 2:12-13... "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." *

So back to Philippians 1:6 (among the many others cited before), "...I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." * He WILL bring it to completion. Not 'might,' but 'will.'

As for God's grace, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved." * (Ephesians 1:3-6)

NOTE: if once having been born again one can be unborn, then the predestination spoken of in the Bible is not predestination at all, but something entirely else from predestination, which would be entirely antithetical to God's Word.)

* emphasis added

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

All denominations quote scriptures...
A lot of different denominations.....

Clearly, you belong to NO denomination then ...

Oh, he (or she?) does... To the non-denominational denomination. Which is essentially Baptist.

Grace and peace to you guys.

 

[robert derrick]

then the predestination spoken of in the Bible is not predestination at all.

The predestination of the Bible is Biblic. The predestination of OSAS is not.

Predestination of OSAS is predetermined life of sin from time to time, without any obedience necessary for eternal salvation.

OSAS is for Christians not being saved by Christ, but being saved by grace without works of faith, which is a grace that does not work at all to save the soul.

 

[robert derrick]

We are only justified by works of faith of God.

If we are not justified, we are not saved.

OSAS is salvation without works of faith, which is unjustified with God.

There are no works of faith justified with God alongside works of unrighteousness from time to time.

 

[robert derrick]

Sinners that continue to sin from time to time are not saved sinners, but unjustified and unsaved Christians.

The true God Jesus Christ is not the God of both good and evil doers, but only the God of them that do good, and eschew evil.

All sin is unrighteousness and evil and of the devil. There are no good sins to commit.

There are no good sinners, but only unsaved sinners and unsaved Christians continuing in their sins from time to time.

 

[PinSeeker]

Both from 1 John, and in order:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:1-4)

It would be a good thing to remember that this is a personal letter, and these sentences are really all one passage (there is only one sentence in between), and certainly not disconnected as if chapter 1 and 2 John is talking about different things. In particular, 1 John 2:4 renders any dispute null and void; our keeping His commandments is the natural result of our having been saved, or having come to know Him.

Grace and peace.

 

[robert derrick]

Both from 1 John, and in order:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:1-4)

It would be a good thing to remember that this is a personal letter, and these sentences are really all one passage (there is only one sentence in between), and certainly not disconnected as if chapter 1 and 2 John is talking about different things. In particular, 1 John 2:4 renders any dispute null and void; our keeping His commandments is the natural result of our having been saved, or having come to know Him.

Grace and peace.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8-9)

This is the favorite Scripture for twisting by OSAS, as some sort of unholy commandment of God to call ourselves sinners and to continue in sin from time to time.

The Scripture is only confirming that we still have sin in the flesh. We are still in sinful flesh.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing.

Scripture does not say there is no good thing dwelling in the Christian, wherein dwells the Spirit and law of Christ, but sin continues to dwell in the flesh.

The OSAS error of trying to say there is no good thing in the Christian, and so we are just as 'depraved' as the lost, which makes us just as lost as the depraved, and that Paul called himself the chiefest of sinners, is an obvious lie against Scripture in order to justify continuing in our sins from time to time.

The Scripture in 1 John is rebuking them that claim to have already arrived while yet in sinful flesh. They say they have no need for fighting temptation of sin, because they have no sin anymore to fight. They preached the resurrection was past, which overthrew the faith of many. It was a boast of being perfect in body, which will not occur until the resurrection.

In particular, 1 John 2:4 renders any dispute null and void; our keeping His commandments is the natural result of our having been saved, or having come to know Him.

1. If we are not keeping all His commandments all the time, we are not loving Him at any time with all our heart. Those never learning to love God with all their heart, and so never learn to obey Him in all things, are not saved Christians, but only unsaved Christians who have yet to purify all their heart.

Sinning from time to time is disobeying all His commandants from time to time, since disobeying one commandment disobeys all.

2. Keeping His commandments only comes natural to them who have purified all their heart and cleansed all their mind of all lust and sins of the flesh, so as not to do them with the body at all today.

There's nothing 'natural' about keeping the commandments of God for them that do sin and break His commandments from time to time.

The only thing 'natural' to such double minded Christians, as with sinners, is to do what they want to do, or are forced to do, whether it be good or evil. They have not yet lost their lives and will to find the life and will of Jesus in their mortal bodies.

We have still in the flesh, but we let no sin reign over us.

The dispute made null and void, therefore, is OSAS who preaches continuing in sins and breaking all His commandments from time to time.

You know these things are truth of Scripture, except you be a reprobate, which I don't believe about you, because you keep coming back for more and more of it.

Why don't you at least be willing to believe it is at least possible to not do that 'time to time sin' today? Go ahead and just repent of them and get it over with. Then you won't need self-justification for them, nor need call yourself a sinner, but an elect saint in Christ Jesus.

You won't even have to think about sinning from time to time, much less 'hating' doing it, but know of a surety in Christ by the whole washing of His blood, that you are overcoming all temptation today, and you will let the evil for tomorrow take care of itself.

Repentance and having repented is not some promise to ourselves and God not to do that sin anymore ever again. That is folly, and a sure setup for failure. Repentance is simply being steadfast in the faith and upright of heart today.

We firm our minds to it the evening before, and do it the morning after:

And the evening and the morning was the day with the Lord, that need never end.

 

[PinSeeker]

The OSAS error of trying to say there is no good thing in the Christian…

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.

…that Paul called himself the chiefest of sinners, is an obvious lie against Scripture…

This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.

The Scripture in 1 John is rebuking them that claim to have already arrived while yet in sinful flesh. They say they have no need for fighting temptation of sin, because they have no sin anymore to fight.

of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we are not keeping all His commandments all the time, we are not loving Him at any time with all our heart.

absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.

Sinning from time to time is disobeying all His commandants from time to time, since disobeying one commandment disobeys all.

Yes! See above.

Keeping His commandments only comes natural to them who have purified all their heart and cleansed all their mind of all lust and sins of the flesh, so as not to do them with the body at all today.

Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.

We have still in the flesh, but we let no sin reign over us.

Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.

Why don't you at least be willing to believe it is at least possible to not do that 'time to time sin' today?

Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Robert thinks that because he believes in God, he’s not a sinner. 1 john says we are all sinners, and to deny that shows you arent saved. I still cant believe any so called christian would ever say they no longer sin anymore.

 

[Scott Downey]

Robert thinks that because he believes in God, he’s not a sinner. 1 john says we are all sinners, and to deny that shows you arent saved. I still cant believe any so called christian would ever say they no longer sin anymore.

We do sin, in our bodies and minds, but we do not sin in our newborn spirit that is in Christ. Since we remain, body, soul, spirit for now on the earth we have some sin, some more than others. But our newborn spirit in Christ is joined as one spirit with God, and that can not sin. It is written like that here about that spirit that is within us. It is clearly written and not hard to understand. This also is in agreement with Hebrews 12

1 John 3:8-10
New King James Version
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Hebrews describe our present condition from our spiritual POV, not the physical earthly side.

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


Our citizenship is in heaven, we are currently just sojourners on the earth who long to be clothed fully in our spiritual tent (habitation) God has made for us in heaven, and someday we will be there further clothed.

2 Corinthians 5
New King James Version

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

 

[robert derrick]

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Where the great grace of God is, there is the reign of God's righteousness over the body in this life, not righteousness of God with unrighteousness of the devil from time to time.

Sinning from time to time is the wretched state of double mindedness, where the great grace of God and His righteousness does not reign over our mortal bodies and lives, but rather we give place to the devil from time to time.

Double minded Christians need be delivered from that wretchedness as Paul was in the overcoming victory of Christ, by purifying our hearts as commanded by James, and by destroying the law of sin over our bodies, by the law of the Spirit of Life defeating the law of sin and death.

OSAS preys upon the confused and weak Christians, who despairingly finds themselves double minded in the faith, and sinning in the flesh.

OSAS seeks to convince them to accept such wretchedness as a 'necessary evil' while yet in this life, and so seeks to normalize a double minded living for life.

OSAS is extremism for the double minded: it transforms wretched double minded yet honest Christians, into a dysfunctional celebration of hypocritic grace.

Rather than exhorting the double minded to full repentance of sins and true freedom from the law of sin and death over their mortal bodies, they encourage searing the conscience to accept unrighteousness, ungodliness, and sin of the devil from time to time unto the end.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Where the great grace of God is, there is the reign of God's righteousness over the body in this life, not righteousness of God with unrighteousness of the devil from time to time.

Sinning from time to time is the wretched state of double mindedness, where the great grace of God and His righteousness does not reign over our mortal bodies and lives, but rather we give place to the devil from time to time.

Double minded Christians need be delivered from that wretchedness as Paul was in the overcoming victory of Christ, by purifying our hearts as commanded by James, and by destroying the law of sin over our bodies, by the law of the Spirit of Life defeating the law of sin and death.

OSAS preys upon the confused and weak Christians, who despairingly finds themselves double minded in the faith, and sinning in the flesh.

OSAS seeks to convince them to accept such wretchedness as a 'necessary evil' while yet in this life, and so seeks to normalize a double minded living for life.

OSAS is extremism for the double minded: it transforms wretched double minded yet honest Christians, into a dysfunctional celebration of hypocritic grace.

Rather than exhorting the double minded to full repentance of sins and true freedom from the law of sin and death over their mortal bodies, they encourage searing the conscience to accept unrighteousness, ungodliness, and sin of the devil from time to time unto the end.

you still havent answered my question robert. Do you ever sin??

 

[Scott Downey]

1 John 1 clearly says we have sin in our life.

the words are 'have', this means an ongoing condition. You cannot escape the meaning here by saying you have no sin whatsoever. If you do that, scripture says you are deceived, and truth is not in you, really meaning the Holy Spirit is not indwelling such a person, they are not saved.
My prior post in this thread explains it well enough in my understanding. Like Paul says here,

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

There is though a bigger issue if you sin willfully, you can think about that and look it up in scripture. Flash, lets say you get angry at a fellow Christian, you have just sinned.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 John 1
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And yet, more crickets from robert. As expected.

 

[atpollard]

OSAS preys upon the confused and weak Christians

OSAS seeks to convince them

OSAS is extremism for the double minded

No it doesn’t.

OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) just believes that Jesus really meant it when He said: "Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." [John 6:37-40 CSB]

and Paul really meant it when he said: “I am sure of this, that he who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” [Philippians 1:6 CSB] and “We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.” [Romans 8:28-30 CSB] and “In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed. The Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.” [Ephesians 1:13-14 CSB]

Everyone the Father …
I will never cast out …
… loose none …
… will have eternal life.
… I will raise him on the last day.
Sure of this …
He who started …
… will carry it on to completion
… those he foreknew he also predestined
… those he predestined, he also called
… those he called, he also justified
… those he justified, he also glorified
… [those = Foreknew to glorified]
… sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
… down payment of our inheritance
… redemption of the possession [us]

OSAS = God finishes what God starts: that’s a ‘money in the bank’ sure thing!

 

[Scott Downey]

No it doesn’t.

OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) just believes that Jesus really meant it when He said: "Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." [John 6:37-40 CSB]

and Paul really meant it when he said: “I am sure of this, that he who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” [Philippians 1:6 CSB] and “We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.” [Romans 8:28-30 CSB] and “In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed. The Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.” [Ephesians 1:13-14 CSB]

Everyone the Father …
I will never cast out …
… loose none …
… will have eternal life.
… I will raise him on the last day.
Sure of this …
He who started …
… will carry it on to completion
… those he foreknew he also predestined
… those he predestined, he also called
… those he called, he also justified
… those he justified, he also glorified
… [those = Foreknew to glorified]
… sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
… down payment of our inheritance
… redemption of the possession [us]

OSAS = God finishes what God starts: that’s a ‘money in the bank’ sure thing!

If God creates in a person their new spirit in Christ which is joined as one spirit with God, then that spirit is perfected in the relationship and it cannot be lost. If God allows that new creation in Christ to be lost, then salvation is of our works, as in continuing the relationship is on us and not of His works which disagrees with Ephesians 1 and 2. I view all the various warnings to continue, persevere etc... as explanation from a human POV for why some fall away and the warnings about being deceived about such a great salvation, Paul says to examine yourself to make sure you are in the faith,

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

John says they are not of US, same as Jesus in John 6 saying here, and 1 John 2:18-28.

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

[Taken]

I decided to place this in the DEBATE forum because I have no expectations that @Curtis will engage in anything approaching a brotherly discussion on the Calvinist teaching from the Doctrines of Grace commonly called “Perseverance of the Saints”.

BEGIN FORMAL DEBATE:

It has been falsely claimed by my esteemed opponents that Perseverance of the Saints and O.S.A.S. (once saved always saved) are identical, that they spring from the non-biblical and false teachings of Calvinism and they both teach: “God saves us to be able to live the most selfish, self centered, and sinful life possible, with no repentance, and remain in Christ”.

I offer the simplest possible response, just one word sums it up.

Balderdash!

I don’t know what Calvinism teaches ...
HOWEVER...

Preserve IS what it means....PRE-Service.<—> That is effected by a mans WILL POWER, to Serve Hear Gods Word, Believe Gods Word, Serve Gods will.

PRE...reveals a LIMIT. The LIMIT is a “mans power”.
(That limit is at length discussed in Scripture, under the term...ENDURE...
Men are warned, cautioned, taught, a man relying on “his own power”, to believe, remain, endure in belief IS RISKY....expressly Because OF evil spirits and wicked men with flowery words, and enticing temptations can SWAY a man AWAY from belief and enduring in belief.)

A man IN Pre-Service...by his own will power, can believe, can serve God...
AND CAN AT ANY TIME......by his own will power......STOP believing, STOP serving God.

The ULTIMATE CHANGE, is WHEN....a man ACCEPTS Gods Offering FOR GOD, to Baptize the man with Gods Holy Spirit, to Enter that man....stay within that man...for the rest of that mans NATURAL BLOOD LIFE....and “BY GODS POWER” KEEP that man IN BELIEF, IN SERVICE to ONLY GOD. (NOTHING whatsoever CAN sway that man AWAY from God.)

Saints, ON earth, are men WHO have Agreed for GODS POWER to save their soul, quicken their spirits and KEEP THEM.

Saints, are NOT men who Continue in their natural body’s, (blood life), KEEPING in belief, by their own natural power.

Saints, (souls and spirits of men) IN Heaven, are Saints, are in Heaven...
BY Gods Power.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

No it doesn’t.

OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved)
OSAS = God finishes what God starts: that’s a ‘money in the bank’ sure thing!

@Scott Downey @robert derrick

Some men are “actually” preaching “enlightenment” IS receiving the gift of Salvation, to which they promptly teach, they CAN lose that gift of Salvation.

Study of Scripture reveals......”ENLIGHTENMENT” IS a person receiving Knowledge of the Word of God, tasting it, trying it out, see if they like it....
And WHILE they are TASTING, trying it out......Gods Spirit is gifting them WITH, blessings, and measures of Faith.

ANYONE with an ounce of sense, knows they cannot COMMIT to what they have not YET heard, Learned about.

ANYONE who has observed a child, learning something new, listens curiously, wonders, maybe believes some of what they hear, maybe believe some of what they hear is too unbelievable.........and the same applies to a man of any age that is first hearing the Word of God.

ANYONE who has ANY concept That God is not, seen, heard, touched, smelled, ....and all men expressly rely on their SENSES, of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling to BELIEVE the existence of something...presents an issue for ANY beginner LEARNER....
NOT news to God.

ANY not a dilemma For God....and expressly WHY the TASTING of Gods Word, the Enlightenment, and Measures of Gods gift of Faith, for ANYONE who freely chooses to HEAR the word of God...about what they can NOT see, hear, touch, taste or smell.

ANYONE should KNOW....TASTING something CAN BE SPIT OUT, and rejected.

ANYONE should KNOW...the stark difference between..TASTING and EATING.

Tasting IS NOT receiving Gods Gift of Salvation.
Eating IS the precise requirement TO RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

@robert derrick has not come to the difference of the understanding between Tasting, blessings while Tasting, and the man still able to spit out...
AND
Eating, blessed forever, and forever the man kept by Gods Power.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Mark 14:
[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

Jesus IS the Word of God.
Tasting the Word of God, is one thing.
Eating the Word of God, is a completely different thing.

OSAS, applies to a living man who HAS EATEN the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

@Scott Downey @robert derrick

Some men are “actually” preaching “enlightenment” IS receiving the gift of Salvation, to which they promptly teach, they CAN lose that gift of Salvation.

Study of Scripture reveals......”ENLIGHTENMENT” IS a person receiving Knowledge of the Word of God, tasting it, trying it out, see if they like it....
And WHILE they are TASTING, trying it out......Gods Spirit is gifting them WITH, blessings, and measures of Faith.

ANYONE with an ounce of sense, knows they cannot COMMIT to what they have not YET heard, Learned about.

ANYONE who has observed a child, learning something new, listens curiously, wonders, maybe believes some of what they hear, maybe believe some of what they hear is too unbelievable.........and the same applies to a man of any age that is first hearing the Word of God.

ANYONE who has ANY concept That God is not, seen, heard, touched, smelled, ....and all men expressly rely on their SENSES, of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling to BELIEVE the existence of something...presents an issue for ANY beginner LEARNER....
NOT news to God.

ANY not a dilemma For God....and expressly WHY the TASTING of Gods Word, the Enlightenment, and Measures of Gods gift of Faith, for ANYONE who freely chooses to HEAR the word of God...about what they can NOT see, hear, touch, taste or smell.

ANYONE should KNOW....TASTING something CAN BE SPIT OUT, and rejected.

ANYONE should KNOW...the stark difference between..TASTING and EATING.

Tasting IS NOT receiving Gods Gift of Salvation.
Eating IS the precise requirement TO RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

@robert derrick has not come to the difference of the understanding between Tasting, blessings while Tasting, and the man still able to spit out...
AND
Eating, blessed forever, and forever the man kept by Gods Power.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Mark 14:
[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

Jesus IS the Word of God.
Tasting the Word of God, is one thing.
Eating the Word of God, is a completely different thing.

OSAS, applies to a living man who HAS EATEN the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

No they can not lose salvation for salvation is of the Lord and not of man.
The New Covenant described clearly reveals that.
This NC is not like the OC
Hebrews 8, says in v10, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Scott Downey]

The problem is this, people assume they are in control of their being born again to be saved, and no they are not in charge of this. God does that for us according to His purpose and will, not ours. Read John 1:10-13

People deceive themselves about other people who they see make some kind of statement of faith, and think God has made them born of God because they say some words. But they are fakes if they do not continue in the doctrine of the Father and the Son, continue to believe in the promise. They probably dont believe it in their heart, you have to believe in your heart, and none of you can know another persons true heart.

They lack something very critical dont they, or they would continue to believe. If they are not born of God, then they are not sealed in the Holy Spirit, and He is not their helper and guide into all truth, right.
They have not been converted, they are empty professors of Christianity.

Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And enlightenment is not of the changed heart, new spirit, it is of the mind. It may be experiential, just like the wilderness wanderers of ancient Israel who saw the mighty works of God on their behalf, but it did not benefit them, not being mixed with faith. And so God was not pleased with them, swore in His wrath they would never enter His rest and their bones lie in the wilderness.

Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4, they were not in the New Covenant which works entirely differently.

7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tried [me] by proving [me,] And saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways; 11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:

an evil heart of unbelief does not exist in the new creation in Christ. That idea is against everything about the New Covenant. The warning is an explanation as for how people who you thought were good Christians (and even maybe yourself) fall away in unbelief, it is because they have evil hearts still and do not know the Lord, all that is contrary to how the New Covenant functions.

If you do not agree with what I wrote, then you do not agree with what the Lord God says in Hebrews 8 about His new covenant with us.