Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[robert derrick]

The problem is this, people assume they are in control of their being born again to be saved, and no they are not in charge of this. God does that for us according to His purpose and will, not ours. Read John 1:10-13

People deceive themselves about other people who they see make some kind of statement of faith, and think God has made them born of God because they say some words. But they are fakes if they do not continue in the doctrine of the Father and the Son, continue to believe in the promise. They probably dont believe it in their heart, you have to believe in your heart, and none of you can know another persons true heart.

They lack something very critical dont they, or they would continue to believe. If they are not born of God, then they are not sealed in the Holy Spirit, and He is not their helper and guide into all truth, right.
They have not been converted, they are empty professors of Christianity.

Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And enlightenment is not of the changed heart, new spirit, it is of the mind. It may be experiential, just like the wilderness wanderers of ancient Israel who saw the mighty works of God on their behalf, but it did not benefit them, not being mixed with faith. And so God was not pleased with them, swore in His wrath they would never enter His rest and their bones lie in the wilderness.

Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4, they were not in the New Covenant which works entirely differently.

7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tried [me] by proving [me,] And saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways; 11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:

That idea is against everything about the New Covenant. The warning is an explanation as for how people who you thought were good Christians (and even maybe yourself) fall away in unbelief, it is because they have evil hearts still and do not know the Lord, all that is contrary to how the New Covenant functions.

If you do not agree with what I wrote, then you do not agree with what the Lord God says in Hebrews 8 about His new covenant with us.

An evil heart of unbelief does not exist in the new creation in Christ.

So then, those who go on sinning show they were never converted and still have an evil heart of disobedience.

 

[robert derrick]

@Scott Downey @robert derrick

Some men are “actually” preaching “enlightenment” IS receiving the gift of Salvation, to which they promptly teach, they CAN lose that gift of Salvation.

Study of Scripture reveals......”ENLIGHTENMENT” IS a person receiving Knowledge of the Word of God, tasting it, trying it out, see if they like it....
And WHILE they are TASTING, trying it out......Gods Spirit is gifting them WITH, blessings, and measures of Faith.

ANYONE with an ounce of sense, knows they cannot COMMIT to what they have not YET heard, Learned about.

ANYONE who has observed a child, learning something new, listens curiously, wonders, maybe believes some of what they hear, maybe believe some of what they hear is too unbelievable.........and the same applies to a man of any age that is first hearing the Word of God.

ANYONE who has ANY concept That God is not, seen, heard, touched, smelled, ....and all men expressly rely on their SENSES, of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling to BELIEVE the existence of something...presents an issue for ANY beginner LEARNER....
NOT news to God.

ANY not a dilemma For God....and expressly WHY the TASTING of Gods Word, the Enlightenment, and Measures of Gods gift of Faith, for ANYONE who freely chooses to HEAR the word of God...about what they can NOT see, hear, touch, taste or smell.

ANYONE should KNOW....TASTING something CAN BE SPIT OUT, and rejected.

ANYONE should KNOW...the stark difference between..TASTING and EATING.

Tasting IS NOT receiving Gods Gift of Salvation.
Eating IS the precise requirement TO RECEIVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

@robert derrick has not come to the difference of the understanding between Tasting, blessings while Tasting, and the man still able to spit out...
AND
Eating, blessed forever, and forever the man kept by Gods Power.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Mark 14:
[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

Jesus IS the Word of God.
Tasting the Word of God, is one thing.
Eating the Word of God, is a completely different thing.

OSAS, applies to a living man who HAS EATEN the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thanks again. The list keeps getting longer. The whole world could not contain the books of truth, and neither could it contain the books of lies about the truth.

Tasting is eating some of it, and not all of it. Tasting it is to eat of it.

The double minded have tasted some of the Word of God and still likes to taste some of the world of sin: eating of the fruit of good and eating of the fruit of evil, after the similitude of Adam's transgression.

OSAS, applies to a living man who HAS EATEN the Word of God.

OSAS applies to a double minded man who eats of hypocrisy for life.

OSAS doctrine is all about applying the carnal mind to Scripture to corrupt it, while the spiritual mind knows it is lying.

OSAS preservation preserves the carnal mind, until the spiritual mind is completely seared.

There are sinners who know they are sinners and not saints. There are saints who know they are saints and not sinners. And then there is OSAS who knows they are sinners and ought to be saints.

God has more respect for the first than the last:

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

God spits out those who find both His Word and world of sins to be tasty.

 

[robert derrick]

The problem is this, people assume they are in control of their being born again to be saved, and no they are not in charge of this. God does that for us according to His purpose and will, not ours. Read John 1:10-13

People deceive themselves about other people who they see make some kind of statement of faith, and think God has made them born of God because they say some words. But they are fakes if they do not continue in the doctrine of the Father and the Son, continue to believe in the promise. They probably dont believe it in their heart, you have to believe in your heart, and none of you can know another persons true heart.

They lack something very critical dont they, or they would continue to believe. If they are not born of God, then they are not sealed in the Holy Spirit, and He is not their helper and guide into all truth, right.
They have not been converted, they are empty professors of Christianity.

Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And enlightenment is not of the changed heart, new spirit, it is of the mind. It may be experiential, just like the wilderness wanderers of ancient Israel who saw the mighty works of God on their behalf, but it did not benefit them, not being mixed with faith. And so God was not pleased with them, swore in His wrath they would never enter His rest and their bones lie in the wilderness.

Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4, they were not in the New Covenant which works entirely differently.

7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tried [me] by proving [me,] And saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways; 11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:

an evil heart of unbelief does not exist in the new creation in Christ. That idea is against everything about the New Covenant. The warning is an explanation as for how people who you thought were good Christians (and even maybe yourself) fall away in unbelief, it is because they have evil hearts still and do not know the Lord, all that is contrary to how the New Covenant functions.

If you do not agree with what I wrote, then you do not agree with what the Lord God says in Hebrews 8 about His new covenant with us.

We see here how OSAS is all about 'believing' and nothing about obeying.

Plenty of words about believing, and not one word about obeying.

OSAS is salvation by faith alone: DOA.

"I believe I have been gifted with salvation, and so I am saved forever."

OSAS salvation is a gift unobtained in the end.

They believe in all things saved, but obey not in all things commanded.

Eternal salvation is not obtained by faith only, but is only obtained by them which obey Him in all things.

 

[Taken]

No they can not lose salvation for salvation is of the Lord and not of man.
The New Covenant described clearly reveals that.
This NC is not like the OC
Hebrews 8, says in v10, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

Amen!

 

[Taken]

Thanks again. The list keeps getting longer. The whole world could not contain the books of truth, and neither could it contain the books of lies about the truth.

Tasting is eating some of it, and not all of it. Tasting it is to eat of it.

LOL - tasting is NOT eating. Get a dictionary!

 

[atpollard]

We see here how OSAS is all about 'believing' and nothing about obeying.

Plenty of words about believing, and not one word about obeying.

OSAS is salvation by faith alone: DOA.

"I believe I have been gifted with salvation, and so I am saved forever."

OSAS salvation is a gift unobtained in the end.

They believe in all things saved, but obey not in all things commanded.

Eternal salvation is not obtained by faith only, but is only obtained by them which obey Him in all things.

“For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift -- not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.” [Ephesians 2:8-10 CSB]

The ORDER is important:

1. grace & faith (God’s gift)
2. saved (also God’s gift)
3. good works (prepared by God for us to do)

OSAS focuses on #2 saved and you keep trying to make “saved” all about doing “good works”.
God says that doing good works comes from being saved.

That was the whole point that James was making … Faith that does not YIELD works is dead.
Only the Pharisees believed that works would save and Paul refutes that in Romans.

You are correct that someone that “claims” to be saved but “walks in sin” rather than walking in the “good works” that God prepared for the saved in Christ, is neither saved nor in Christ. However the problem is the lack of “saved” not the lack of “works”. More “works” will only change an unsaved sinner into an unsaved Pharisee.

Since “grace, faith and saved” are all gifts from God, then only God can remove our “grace, faith and saved” … which God says will not happen. So once God saves us, we are saved and stay saved (OSAS). As “saved” we can get on with the good works.

Where you confuse everyone is this crazy inference that you now live a sinless life. We all try (and succeed) to sin less, but none of the rest of us live completely sinless. We need the ability to repent and be forgiven.

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

“OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do.

So, you want to defame Paul and use the Scripture to justify disobeying God, but want to change the Scripture, so that there is one good thing in you, while not doing His will.

Either there is no good thing dwelling in you as you say, and so knowingly disobey God because of it, or there is the good God dwelling in you, and yet still disobey Him anyway: You disobey Him despite Him dwelling in you.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying?

You twist the Scripture to your own liking, and are lying about Paul. Paul did not claim to be the chiefest of sinners, neither was he a great example of sinning for others to follow.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

If you really believed your own lies, then you would endeavor to be the chiefest of sinners like Paul, that you may be more like Christ.

OSAS is salvation of a chiefly sinning christ, who's name is not Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.


This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.


of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.


Yes! See above.


Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.


Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.


Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

"If we are not keeping all His commandments all the time, we are not loving Him at any time with all our heart."

Absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.

No, this is the double minded man who has learned the strong delusion of being saved with the old man in tow for life.

They have made themselves airtight in their disobedience to God today, so that absolutely no doctrine of complete obedience today shall enter in.

This is what searing the conscience looks like, sounds like, and acts like: OSAS is hot iron for the double minded to sear away any remaining conscience for obeying God in all things today.

OSAS is the dumbing down of all truth. Without shame they tread upon the blood of the Lamb, despise the Spirit of grace, and celebrate being still the uncrucified old man of sin, just like the rest of the depraved world, and for the glory of God!!!

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman.

The more OSAS speaks the less mysterious Babylon becomes. All the lies for the glory of God just keeps on coming.

OSAS gifted salvation is the gift of blindness that just keeps on giving.

Sinning is not 'struggling' with sin. It's being defeated by sin. It's lying prostrate to the devil. All sin today is unrighteous disobedience to God today.

Overcoming saints don't 'struggle' with disobeying God, while disobeying Him: they endure temptation, until they overcome it with help of God's great grace in their time of need to endure temptation and overcome disobedience to God.

Struggling with sin is wrestling with pigs in their own mire: OSAS is not doctrine for pigs wallowing in the mire, it is doctrine for wrestling with pigs wallowing in the mire!!

The only difference between OSAS and the rest of the world is being more blind than the rest of the world.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.


This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.


of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.


Yes! See above.


Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.


Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.


Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

"Sinning from time to time is disobeying all His commandants from time to time, since disobeying one commandment disobeys all."

Yes! See above. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do.

Yes! See above! That's exactly what we are! Sinners disobeying all His commandments from time to time! But don't you see??? It's by grace for the glory of God!!!

Ceeeeelebrate that grace, C'mon!!!

This is just insane stuff. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry. Are you people purposely parodying yourselves? If so, please tell me, because I would far more prefer laughing with you and at myself, for having been so fooled into believing you mean what you say, than to be so astounded otherwise.

Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself). Those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible...

Look, you need to stop talking like this. All Scripture is God speaking. Not Moses, not Isaiah, not Paul, not John...which is why you keep thinking of Scripture in humanist terms.

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

With the humans of OSAS, it is not 'humanly possible' not to disobey God today, nor any day on this earth.

OSAS is only human. OSAS is humanism by grace. Liberalism is humanism on steroids, and OSAS is liberal humanism on parade.

The only single truth about OSAS is that it absolutely impossible for them to stop disobeying God from time to time.

Their hope is for the impossible: Obtaining eternal salvation by disobeying Him.

OSAS says there is hope for the children of disobedience too.

And so, children, everybody now: Ceeeeelebrate that grace, C'mon!!!!

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.


This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.


of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.


Yes! See above.


Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.


Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.


Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

We are still in the flesh, but we let no sin reign over us.

Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.

This is incredibly dysfunctional. How does the old man of sin, with the sin nature for sin, and so still sinning in disobedience to God from time to time, agree not to let sin reign over him???

What, he doesn't let sin reign over him, only when he's not letting sin reign over him from time to time?

Or maybe, when sinning from time to time, it's not really sin reigning over him, but just sort of from him?

No, I got it! He is a sinner, yes, but he is a 'saved' sinner, an 'unconditionally' saved soul detached from his old man of sin who is still in the body!? So when his old man sins from time to time, it's not he the saved sinner that sinneth, but only his old man that sinneth apart from his soul!?

Therefore, sin does not reign over him, that is his soul, but only over his old man, that is his flesh, which body is now detached from his saved soul!?

And so, when his old man still sins and rebels against God daily, then it is not his soul that dies, because it is not his soul that sinneth!!

You don't really believe the lie that your acts of disobedience done in the body are not judged for your soul, do you?? That you are some disembodied soul sitting in heavenly places, while your decapitated body remains on earth still obedient to the old man of sin??

OSAS is sooooo confusing. OSAS is not for the rational of mind, who tries to think with normal reason. Indeed, I am the one who can't help but be human here.

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.


This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.


of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.


Yes! See above.


Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.


Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.


Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

Why don't you at least be willing to believe it is at least possible to not do that 'time to time sin' today?

Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

And here we have the conclusion of OSAS: We cannot live without sinfully disobeying God today, nor any day, because God has commanded us not to. Scripture commands us to sin daily, so that we do not deceive ourselves into thinking we do not commit sin and disobey him on any given day.

The lie of OSAS is that God does not command us to go and sin no more today, because His people are only human sinners just like everyone else of the world, and so it is impossible for them to do so, and God does not command any sinners, saved or unsaved, to do what they cannot possibly do. And so, the only hope of OSAS is living in sin and disobedience to God today, and yet looking for Him to give our sinning souls an eternal immortal body tomorrow, so that then and only then can they not live in sin and rebellion of Him today.

Good tomorrows never ever come for them that lie to themselves about today.

I have tried honestly on several occasions to exhort you from this lie, and you refuse, and cling to it instead that you may obey a commandment to sin and disobey God today and every day on this earth.

I'll obey scripture and admonish you no more:

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

Blind grace and false peace is not for me, so no thanks.

Your hypocrisy is astounding. How can you possibly bid God speed to someone such as myself, whom you plainly claim is teaching false doctrine and is deceiving himself and the truth is not in me?

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If you really believed the lies you dish out, you would obey Scripture accordingly.

But then, what can anyone expect from them that only use Scripture to justify their disobedience to God, where actually obeying Scripture win deed and in truth has absolutely nothing to do with their salvation by faith alone?

 

[Scott Downey]

Why don't you at least be willing to believe it is at least possible to not do that 'time to time sin' today?

Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

And here we have the conclusion of OSAS: We cannot live without sinfully disobeying God today, nor any day, because God has commanded us not to. Scripture commands us to sin daily, so that we do not deceive ourselves into thinking we do not commit sin and disobey him on any given day.

The lie of OSAS is that God does not command us to go and sin no more today, because His people are only human sinners just like everyone else of the world, and so it is impossible for them to do so, and God does not command any sinners, saved or unsaved, to do what they cannot possibly do. And so, the only hope of OSAS is living in sin and disobedience to God today, and yet looking for Him to give our sinning souls an eternal immortal body tomorrow, so that then and only then can they not live in sin and rebellion of Him today.

Good tomorrows never ever come for them that lie to themselves about today.

I have tried honestly on several occasions to exhort you from this lie, and you refuse, and cling to it instead that you may obey a commandment to sin and disobey God today and every day on this earth.

I'll obey scripture and admonish you no more:

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

Blind grace and false peace is not for me, so no thanks.

Your hypocrisy is astounding. How can you possibly bid God speed to someone such as myself, whom you plainly claim is teaching false doctrine and is deceiving himself and the truth is not in me?

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If you really believed the lies you dish out, you would obey Scripture accordingly.

But then, what can anyone expect from them that only use Scripture to justify their disobedience to God, where actually obeying Scripture win deed and in truth has absolutely nothing to do with their salvation by faith alone?

No one I know says OSAS allows them to justify their disobedience to God and sin like the devil like you are suggesting.

I will prove to you that Christians in Corinth sinned unto sickness and death but did not go to hell.

1 John 5 tells us there are sins not leading to death. Do you believe that all sins a Christian might do, is grounds for their eternal life to be taken away?
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

The truth is, God does not remember our sin(s), they are not held against us to cause us to die in eternal torments of hell anymore, we are forgiven all our our sin(s) and unrighteousness when we are born of God, being part of the New Covenant family of God. Hebrews 8:12

Sin leading to death for a brother would be they physically die as in 'sleep', just like what happened to many in Corinth regarding the Lord's supper.
Christ-God chastised them severely even to death so they would not be condemned along with the world. See, that means their salvation, not their death in hellfire. Those who sinned by not discerning the Lord's body did not die and go to hell, they were still saved.

1 Corinthians 11
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

They are guilty of the body and blood of Christ because of this sin of not discerning Christ's body that He died for which would have been their fellow poor brothers in the Lord. They shamed them and refused them fellowship and treated them badly inside this church. They sinned and they got sick and some died but not to go to hell, they were judged and taken to come before Christ to give an account to Him earlier than they would have normally, there life was cut short on the earth.

Notice what some were doing
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.

19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk.

22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame [c]those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

 

[robert derrick]

The mischaracterization of and false allegations against “OSAS” (this is just one of a multitude) continues unabated. “OSAS” ~ using your silly vernacular ~ makes no such statement. There is one good, um, “Thing” dwelling in the Christian, and that’s God Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, two, actually, the other being the righteousness of Christ.


This is what Paul, inspired by the Spirit Himself, says:

“The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15)​

Was Paul (ultimately God) mistaken, Robert? Or was he lying? I say neither is the case, of course, but if what you say here is true ~ which, of course, is not the case ~ then one or the other (mistaken or lying) is inevitably the case.


of course, but the instruction is there for all readers and is just true today, for all, even Christians, those of us in Christ. If we say we have no sin ~ are perfectly obedient and therefore sinless (as you do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


absolutely. And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature, that we now struggle against, for the gory of God.


Yes! See above.


Right, but per John (and ultimately God Himself), those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. And that would be… you.


Absolutely. We agree on this 100%. Perhaps we can leave it at this.


Because John ~ God ~ says so. But fortunately for us, there is redemption in Christ, and forgiveness, and the absolute certainty that we will be rid of it when (not if) we are glorified.

Grace and peace to you, Robert. Especially grace, since there seems to be such a dearth of it in you.

Why don't you at least be willing to believe it is at least possible to not do that 'time to time sin' today?

Because John says so. It's not possible.

Those who think they have done this, are doing this, or that it is humanly possible are deceiving themselves.

And I can make the airtight case using God’s infallible, inerrant Word that this is indeed the case for all us. Like Paul we do the very things we know we shouldn’t do, and we leave undone the very things we know we ought to do. This is the “old man” in us, our sin nature.

One thing for sure about OSAS, is no one will ever here them calling themselves saints. Elect? Sure. Saints? No way. They are humble sinners, not proud saints.

When they say they are the low-down sinful, depraved, unrighteous, and ungodly disobedient children of God, then by grace they mean it!

They are so committed to staying in sin, no one can even get them to think about otherwise, much less talking them out of it.

They are such rebellious people of God, they make even their father Korah himself proud!

I bet they strive with one another through the week to see who is truly chiefest of sinners like Paul, so they can have bragging rights among the congregation of the unrighteous on Sunday mornings.

 

[robert derrick]

You act as if we're conditionally saved, which is heresy, and are slaves to God the master. Who cracks the whip if we don't remain obedient to what?

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham obeyed God in all things.

But OSAS has it better than Abraham. They don't just have faith, they have grace.

So they don't have to obey God in all things, like his slavish servant Abraham did.

The way of the transgressors is hard, because the way of God's righteous judgment is that of a hard taskmaster against sin.

 

[robert derrick]

No it doesn’t.

OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) just believes that Jesus really meant it when He said: "Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." [John 6:37-40 CSB]

and Paul really meant it when he said: “I am sure of this, that he who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” [Philippians 1:6 CSB] and “We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.” [Romans 8:28-30 CSB] and “In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed. The Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.” [Ephesians 1:13-14 CSB]

Everyone the Father …
I will never cast out …
… loose none …
… will have eternal life.
… I will raise him on the last day.
Sure of this …
He who started …
… will carry it on to completion
… those he foreknew he also predestined
… those he predestined, he also called
… those he called, he also justified
… those he justified, he also glorified
… [those = Foreknew to glorified]
… sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
… down payment of our inheritance
… redemption of the possession [us]

OSAS = God finishes what God starts: that’s a ‘money in the bank’ sure thing!

I always knew OSAS had no problem ongoing on in their sinful disobedience to God, because they have no need to, believing they have salvation already in the bag.

It is the natural human response to a humanist salvation.

They have no need to run the race lawfully, no need to fight the good fight, no need to attain to the resurrection of the dead, no need to win Christ, no need to obtain the crown of righteousness, because it's all sown up tighter than a drum, that they love to bang upon in celebratory dances to their grace.

How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

OSAS is salvation for an old bag of sins, thinking it will be made magically new only after it hits the dirt.

 

[robert derrick]

No one I know says OSAS allows them to justify their disobedience to God and sin like the devil like you are suggesting.

I will prove to you that Christians in Corinth sinned unto sickness and death but did not go to hell.

1 John 5 tells us there are sins not leading to death. Do you believe that all sins a Christian might do, is grounds for their eternal life to be taken away?
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

The truth is, God does not remember our sin(s), they are not held against us to cause us to die in eternal torments of hell anymore, we are forgiven all our our sin(s) and unrighteousness when we are born of God, being part of the New Covenant family of God. Hebrews 8:12

Sin leading to death for a brother would be they physically die as in 'sleep', just like what happened to many in Corinth regarding the Lord's supper.
Christ-God chastised them severely even to death so they would not be condemned along with the world. See, that means their salvation, not their death in hellfire. Those who sinned by not discerning the Lord's body did not die and go to hell, they were still saved.

1 Corinthians 11
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

They are guilty of the body and blood of Christ because of this sin of not discerning Christ's body that He died for which would have been their fellow poor brothers in the Lord. They shamed them and refused them fellowship and treated them badly inside this church. They sinned and they got sick and some died but not to go to hell, they were judged and taken to come before Christ to give an account to Him earlier than they would have normally, there life was cut short on the earth.

Notice what some were doing
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.

19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk.

22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame [c]those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

No one I know says OSAS allows them to justify their disobedience to God and sin like the devil like you are suggesting. I will prove to you that Christians in Corinth sinned unto sickness and death but did not go to hell.

So, OSAS doesn't deny they sin like the devil in disobedience to God, they just don't 'justify' it.

So they teach a doctrine of sinning some more, but they don't justify it?

They don't justify the lives they teach?

OSAS therefore teaches what they themselves do not justify: an unjustified doctrine of grace to help continuing in sins that are unjustified.

OSAS acknowledges their lives of disobedience to God are not justified.

And so, they agree with God in Scripture that they are not justified with God:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

OSAS teaches an unconditional salvation for them that are not justified with God, by their continued sinful works of unrighteousness, that they themselves do not justify.

Incredible.

An unjustified salvation is no salvation at all.

 

[robert derrick]

No one I know says OSAS allows them to justify their disobedience to God and sin like the devil like you are suggesting.

I will prove to you that Christians in Corinth sinned unto sickness and death but did not go to hell.

1 John 5 tells us there are sins not leading to death. Do you believe that all sins a Christian might do, is grounds for their eternal life to be taken away?
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

The truth is, God does not remember our sin(s), they are not held against us to cause us to die in eternal torments of hell anymore, we are forgiven all our our sin(s) and unrighteousness when we are born of God, being part of the New Covenant family of God. Hebrews 8:12

Sin leading to death for a brother would be they physically die as in 'sleep', just like what happened to many in Corinth regarding the Lord's supper.
Christ-God chastised them severely even to death so they would not be condemned along with the world. See, that means their salvation, not their death in hellfire. Those who sinned by not discerning the Lord's body did not die and go to hell, they were still saved.

1 Corinthians 11
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

They are guilty of the body and blood of Christ because of this sin of not discerning Christ's body that He died for which would have been their fellow poor brothers in the Lord. They shamed them and refused them fellowship and treated them badly inside this church. They sinned and they got sick and some died but not to go to hell, they were judged and taken to come before Christ to give an account to Him earlier than they would have normally, there life was cut short on the earth.

Notice what some were doing
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.

19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk.

22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame [c]those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

No one I know says OSAS allows them to justify their disobedience to God and sin like the devil like you are suggesting. I will prove to you that Christians in Corinth sinned unto sickness and death but did not go to hell.

This is just too much. I mean, seriously? Do you people even stop to think about what you are saying, before you say it?? I keep thinking the list can't getting any longer, and then something else comes up that ought go directly to the top.

You teach going on still in your sins, because to go and sin no more is impossible, but you don't 'justify' going on to sin some more.

You teach continuing to sin like the devil, because it is not possible to not sin like the devil, but you don't justify sinning like the devil.

You teach doing, what you do not justify doing.

You prove to yourselves it is impossible to go and sin no more, and then acknowledge to yourselves it is unjustified not to do so.

You prove to yourselves it is only possible to go on in sins and trespasses, and then acknowledge it is unjustified to do so.

OSAS is salvation for souls, whose minds no longer know what they are saying, and when it is repeated back to them without all the fluff, they are offended by it.

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

OSAS teaches going on still in their trespasses as 'saved' enemies of God, whose minds have been damaged by a wound to their heads.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Robert derrick, have you sinned at all in the last 5 days??

i’ve asked him this same question, numerous times with no response from him. He thinks he no longer sins. Thats heretical.

 

[Scott Downey]

Robert derrick, have you sinned at all in the last 5 days??

i’ve asked him this same question, numerous times with no response from him. He thinks he no longer sins. Thats heretical.

James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

In that verse, a failure to do good , like give all your money to the poor and follow Christ and don't do it, that is a sin.

What did Jesus say, who has been perfect in following the Lord? But God gives grace. Our relationship with God is not by the letter but by the spirit.
That is where these people mess up. They really are lawbreakers and dont know it. The only one without sin was Christ, He is the only one good and perfect (lamb of God without spot or blemish) and people who say they do not sin are pretending to be Christ, Jesus warns us about many false Christs to come, who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are. Christ tells us only God is good, why do you call me good? Well now Christ is God and people are not, they are also not good.

1. Matthew 10:38
   And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Matthew 16:24
   Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Matthew 19:21
   Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

KJ21
Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
ASV
To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
AMP
So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.
AMPC
So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.
BRG
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
CSB
So it is sin to know the good and yet not do it.
CEB
It is a sin when someone knows the right thing to do and doesn’t do it.
CJB
So then, anyone who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it is committing a sin.
CEV
If you don’t do what you know is right, you have sinned.
DARBY
To him therefore who knows how to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.
DLNT
Therefore, to one knowing to be doing good and not doing it, to him it is a sin.
DRA
To him therefore who knoweth to do good, and doth it not, to him it is sin.
ERV
If you fail to do what you know is right, you are sinning.
EHV
So, for the one who knows the right thing to do and doesn’t do it, this is a sin.
ESV
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert derrick, have you sinned at all in the last 5 days??

i’ve asked him this same question, numerous times with no response from him. He thinks he no longer sins. Thats heretical.

Have you?

Oh wait. We all know you have. It's heretical not to.

Congratulations.