Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[JesusFan1]

All OSAS are all liars against Scripture. Just let them talk long enough, and they will show their carnal minded natures, not having the Spirit of truth:

as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

As I said, Heretical teaching contrary to Scripture for the express purpose of continuing in sins and trespasses against God.

OSAS doesn't keep themselves from the sins of the devil for eternal salvation, because there is no eternal salvation for them to keep.

For the saint in Christ Jesus, eternal salvation is worth keeping themselves from sins for.

For OSAS in another christ, eternal salvation isn't worth it, and so they choose for themselves another salvation, which is not worth keeping themselves from sins for.

God's eternal salvation is worth keeping ourselves from going on in sins, and His saints to do so. OSAS salvation isn't worth keeping themselves from going on in sins, so they don't.

Simple.

Jesus stated that he will lose NONE saved by Him, as he will raise up ALL given to him by the father, correct?

 

[PinSeeker]

Nope, am a five pointer, hold to all points of Tulip!

Good. But I'm not quite sure, then, why you said, "I am addressing this from the viewpoint of one who holds to a Calvinist Baptist framework on salvation now" But no matter. Grace and peace to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am addressing this from the viewpoint of one who holds to a Calvinist Baptist framework on salvation now

I understand you to be of the calvinist faith.
And you don't believe a true believer can ever become lost again.


So could you explain the following to us?
I've asked many a calvinist and have never received a reply....


Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts.
Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Institutes of the Christian Religion
John Calvin
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

 

[PinSeeker]

All OSAS are all liars against Scripture. Just let them talk long enough, and they will show their carnal minded natures, not having the Spirit of truth:

as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Ah, 1 John 5:18... Well, we shouldn't cherry-pick, right, Robert? If you take it in the context of 1 John 5 (not hard, since it's the same chapter, and only a total of 21 verses at that), and even just in the context of the immediately preceding verses (16 and 17), which say:

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life ~ to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."​

So John is actually assuming (and implicitly declaring) that brothers will indeed sin, because, as he said earlier, "...if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). Sin not leading to death is sin for which forgiveness is possible, because 1.) forgiveness is sought, and 2.) God is willing to grant it. On the other hand, "sin that leads to death" is sin that is 1.) unrepented of and 2.) of the kind or nature that John has warned about throughout the letter ~ resolute rejection of the true doctrine about Christ, chronic disobedience to God's commandments, persistent lack of love for fellow believers ~ all indications of a lack of saving faith ~ which will not be forgiven.

And then comes verse 18, which says:

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."​

So, yet another passage that you are horribly mistaken on, because of your taking this verse and that verse in isolation from other parts of the Bible and even adjacent verses. Again, you're railing against antinomianism, and no "Calvinist OSAS" is guilty of that.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

 

[Cooper]

Nope, am a five pointer, hold to all points of Tulip!

Then I feel sorry for those who fall foul of the false teachers.

.

 

[Cooper]

Ah, 1 John 5:18... Well, we shouldn't cherry-pick, right, Robert? If you take it in the context of 1 John 5 (not hard, since it's the same chapter, and only a total of 21 verses at that), and even just in the context of the immediately preceding verses (16 and 17), which say:

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life ~ to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."​

So John is actually assuming (and implicitly declaring) that brothers will indeed sin, because, as he said earlier, "...if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). Sin not leading to death is sin for which forgiveness is possible, because 1.) forgiveness is sought, and 2.) God is willing to grant it. On the other hand, "sin that leads to death" is sin that is 1.) unrepented of and 2.) of the kind or nature that John has warned about throughout the letter ~ resolute rejection of the true doctrine about Christ, chronic disobedience to God's commandments, persistent lack of love for fellow believers ~ all indications of a lack of saving faith ~ which will not be forgiven.

And then comes verse 18, which says:

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."​

So, yet another passage that you are horribly mistaken on, because of your taking this verse and that verse in isolation from other parts of the Bible and even adjacent verses. Again, you're railing against antinomianism, and no "Calvinist OSAS" is guilty of that.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

You forget the unpardonable sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Ah, 1 John 5:18... Well, we shouldn't cherry-pick, right, Robert? If you take it in the context of 1 John 5 (not hard, since it's the same chapter, and only a total of 21 verses at that), and even just in the context of the immediately preceding verses (16 and 17), which say:

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life ~ to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."​

So John is actually assuming (and implicitly declaring) that brothers will indeed sin, because, as he said earlier, "...if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). Sin not leading to death is sin for which forgiveness is possible, because 1.) forgiveness is sought, and 2.) God is willing to grant it. On the other hand, "sin that leads to death" is sin that is 1.) unrepented of and 2.) of the kind or nature that John has warned about throughout the letter ~ resolute rejection of the true doctrine about Christ, chronic disobedience to God's commandments, persistent lack of love for fellow believers ~ all indications of a lack of saving faith ~ which will not be forgiven.

And then comes verse 18, which says:

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."​

So, yet another passage that you are horribly mistaken on, because of your taking this verse and that verse in isolation from other parts of the Bible and even adjacent verses. Again, you're railing against antinomianism, and no "Calvinist OSAS" is guilty of that.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

OSAS says they don't keep themselves, and Scripture says we must keep ourselves.

OSAS lies therefore against Scripture.

that brothers will indeed sin

OSAS says when, Scripture says if.

OSAS therefore lies against Scripture again.

Even as OSAS sins go on and on, so do their lies against Scripture go on and on.

 

[robert derrick]

You forget the unpardonable sin.

Which OSAS cannot do, since they are already forgiven for all their sins from past to future.

It's apparently the only sin they don't commit.

But they certainly have the rest covered, being chiefest of sinners, like their false apostle they blasphemously call 'Paul'.

 

[robert derrick]

I understand you to be of the calvinist faith.
And you don't believe a true believer can ever become lost again.


So could you explain the following to us?
I've asked many a calvinist and have never received a reply....


Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts.
Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Institutes of the Christian Religion
John Calvin
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

I.e. they knew God and turned from God, and God gave them over to reprobate mind of strong delusion: OSAS.

The beast of OSAS: He that was being saved by Jesus Christ, and is not being saved at all, and yet is being unconditionally saved by another christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus stated that he will lose NONE saved by Him, as he will raise up ALL given to him by the father, correct?

I.e. you were corrected in your lie, and you refuse the correction to stay in your lie.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Saints keep themselves from sins, that the wicked one touch them no more.

OSAS doesn't keep themselves from any sins. They don't keep anything at all, especially not the faith of Jesus to obey Him.

 

[Cooper]

This passage (actually vv.4-8) has been subject to substantially different interpretations. The central debate concerns whether the descriptions of those who were enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the goodness of the word of God depict people who were once true Christians. They were not. They may have participated fully in the Christian covenantal community, but when people do fall away, it is clear that they are not true Christians because they have not made a true, saving response (or disavowed what they thought was a true, saving response) to the Gospel, resulting in genuine faith, love, and perseverance (vv.9-12). In other words, they may have participated outwardly in the Christian community and they even may have shared in the blessings of Christian fellowship, but inwardly, like the seed that fell on rocky ground in the parable of the sower, "they have no root" (Mark 4:17) and they fall away when faced with persecution. In this way, it fits hand in hand with John's assertion that those they were formerly in fellowship with "went out from us, but they were not of us..." ~ not born of the Holy Spirit, not true Christians; they never were ~ "...for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." Also, these who fall away could not have been given to Jesus by the Father, because, as Jesus Himself says, in John 6:39. "...this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

Grace and peace to you.

Re-write the Bible why don't you. You would need to re-write a lot more passages that warn of apostasy if that is your intention. The whole Israelite nation is apostate, not just individuals.
.

 

[JesusFan1]

Good. But I'm not quite sure, then, why you said, "I am addressing this from the viewpoint of one who holds to a Calvinist Baptist framework on salvation now" But no matter. Grace and peace to you.

Just was saying that I was addressing the posters from the framework of a Calvinist!

 

[JesusFan1]

Re-write the Bible why don't you. You would need to re-write a lot more passages that warn of apostasy if that is your intention. The whole Israelite nation is apostate, not just individuals.
.

True Christians cannot commit Apostasy, as those who in the end reject Jesus confirm never was really saved, just merely professing saved!

 

[JesusFan1]

I understand you to be of the calvinist faith.
And you don't believe a true believer can ever become lost again.


So could you explain the following to us?
I've asked many a calvinist and have never received a reply....


Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts.
Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Institutes of the Christian Religion
John Calvin
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

Per the Apostle Johm, who was inspired, they were among us but not of us, as departed from us!

 

[JesusFan1]

Ah, 1 John 5:18... Well, we shouldn't cherry-pick, right, Robert? If you take it in the context of 1 John 5 (not hard, since it's the same chapter, and only a total of 21 verses at that), and even just in the context of the immediately preceding verses (16 and 17), which say:

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life ~ to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."​

So John is actually assuming (and implicitly declaring) that brothers will indeed sin, because, as he said earlier, "...if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). Sin not leading to death is sin for which forgiveness is possible, because 1.) forgiveness is sought, and 2.) God is willing to grant it. On the other hand, "sin that leads to death" is sin that is 1.) unrepented of and 2.) of the kind or nature that John has warned about throughout the letter ~ resolute rejection of the true doctrine about Christ, chronic disobedience to God's commandments, persistent lack of love for fellow believers ~ all indications of a lack of saving faith ~ which will not be forgiven.

And then comes verse 18, which says:

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."​

So, yet another passage that you are horribly mistaken on, because of your taking this verse and that verse in isolation from other parts of the Bible and even adjacent verses. Again, you're railing against antinomianism, and no "Calvinist OSAS" is guilty of that.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

John point is that there is sinning that can lead to physical death, and not address spiritual death, as think had in mind the two whjo died in Acts as pronounced judgement upon them by Peter!

 

[JesusFan1]

Then I feel sorry for those who fall foul of the false teachers.

.

are you saying we calvinists are following false teachers?

 

[Cooper]

True Christians cannot commit Apostasy, as those who in the end reject Jesus confirm never was really saved, just merely professing saved!

Everybody can exercise their God-given freewill.

God did not make us zombies.

 

[JesusFan1]

I.e. you were corrected in your lie, and you refuse the correction to stay in your lie.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Saints keep themselves from sins, that the wicked one touch them no more.

OSAS doesn't keep themselves from any sins. They don't keep anything at all, especially not the faith of Jesus to obey Him.

Do we ever reach a sinless perfection state while alive then?

 

[JesusFan1]

Everybody can exercise their God-given freewill.

Once saved by grace of God, we are forever sealed and secured in Christ!

 

[Cooper]

are you saying we calvinists are following false teachers?

Yes.