Growing in Spiritual Maturity - Being, not doing

[St. SteVen]

Spiritual balance is very hard to achieve. If we are "doing" what we ought to do ...we don't need to claim to "be" anything at all. in fact, it's an ego trap to claim to be anything. As Jesus said...we should not let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. Sometimes trying to "be" something is trying to be something we are not.

If we truly "are" then the doing will follow naturally. If we ARE kind then we will act with kindness. If we are in the Spirit we will produce the fruit of the Spirit.

Yes, of course.
I did not mean BE in the sense of a boastful claim about ourselves in the interest of elevating ourselves before others.
I meant that BEING a Christian is more than simply DOING "Christian" things.

That WHAT we do, is a manifestation of WHO we are. Which I think is what you were saying.
Correct me if I misunderstood. Thanks.

 

[Gottservant]

Could you explain what you mean by that?

I just mean exactly that: if Jesus isn't inspiring you, something is wrong.

They say "we live by faith and not by works" but because of faith I do not neglect works.

It's a tradition of man thing, where you would be inspired by Jesus, but you cut it off saying "but I need faith".

 

[St. SteVen]

Here is a question for us to address.

Does DOING Christian things MAKE you a Christian?

cc: @Enoch111 @Lambano @Episkopos @Gottservant @amadeus @Ritajanice @Keturah and anyone else I missed...

 

[Behold]

""""Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."""

------------------

""""Not that I speak from [any personal] need, for I have learned to be content [and self-sufficient through Christ, satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or uneasy] regardless of my circumstances. 12 I know how to get along and live humbly [in difficult times], and I also know how to enjoy abundance and live in prosperity. In any and every circumstance I have learned the secret [of facing life], whether well-fed or going hungry, whether having an abundance or being in need. 13 I can do all things [which He has called me to do] through Him who strengthens and empowers me [to fulfill His purpose—I am self-sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency; I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses me with inner strength and confident peace."""

 

[St. SteVen]

My point is that, in my view, the DOING needs to be a manifestation, or supernatural outflow, of the BEING.
And sometimes, the BEING gets lost in all the DOING. One can become a servant to DOING, rather than BEING.
We need to ask ourselves WHY we are doing what we are doing.

At one point I realized that I was DOING too much; I needed to re-evaluate how much I was doing.
I needed to learn how to say, "No." I was headed for church burnout.

I had been caught in the 80/20. Twenty percent doing eighty percent of the work.
Because the 20% say "Yes." whenever they are asked. And the 80% nearly always say "No."
So naturally, mostly the 20% are asked. This creates a DOING that endangers the BEING.
Burnouts leave the church, instead of learning how to say, "No."

 

[Episkopos]

Here is a question for us to address.

Does DOING Christian things MAKE you a Christian?

cc: @Enoch111 @Lambano @Episkopos @Gottservant @amadeus @Ritajanice @Keturah and anyone else I missed...

Jesus said, they that are not against us are for us. Gandhi did more Christian things...with great courage...than most modern believers even think is possible. Yet while he followed Christ in his own way...living as if Jesus was real and worthy of obedience, he never claimed to be part of the religion that upheld Jesus as their saviour.

Labels can be misleading. Gandhi considered himself a follower of Christ but not a Christian...he saw though the hypocrisy of the dogmatic religion that has infested the gospel....even at that time. He said...I love your Christ, but not your Christians.

It's funny how so many modern believers don't think that Jesus is worthy of their obedience. Instead these interpret the bible through Luther's interpretation of Paul. This is nowhere near the level of intimacy that God is looking for.

 

[ChristisGod]

All the stuff we do to be Christians. The expectations... (sigh)
I thought salvation was a free gift, until I learned that it will cost me everything. (sigh)
This isn't what I signed up for. (Grr...)

- Did you have your quiet time devotions this morning? (shame)
- Did you study your Bible today? (shame)
- Did you witness to someone about Jesus today? (shame)
- Did you make it to church on Sunday morning? (shame)
- How is your scripture memory program? (shame)
- Did you sign up for that project at church? (shame)
- How much time did you spend in prayer today? (shame)
- Are you going on the mission trip this year? (shame)

And on and on it goes...

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these things.
But is this what spiritual maturity is about?
Seems more like a hamster wheel of activity. Going nowhere...

Jesus said to rest in him. That his yoke is easy, his burden is light.
That doesn't seem to level with the list the church gave you.

Maybe the Christian life is more about being than doing?
After all, you are a human being, not a human doing.

Ask yourself...
What does it mean to BE a Christian? (or Christ follower, if you prefer)

Maybe you need a day off from DOING, and a day on of BEING.

What does it mean to be called a disciple of Jesus and what were His conditions on following Him as a disciple ?

What did it mean when in many places He said to count the cost ?

What does it mean to deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow Me ?

What did He mean when He said whoever loses his life for His sake will save it and whoever saves his life will lose it ?

Just some food for thought with your OP to consider.

Salvation is surely a gift and nothing we can earn it but it will cost you everything, even your life.

hope this helps !!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Great post, thanks.

It's funny how so many modern believers don't think that Jesus is worthy of their obedience. Instead these interpret the bible through Luther's interpretation of Paul. This is nowhere near the level of intimacy that God is looking for.

I guessing that isn't a slam on Protestantism.
Could you clarify? What sort of intimacy is God looking for?

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus said, they that are not against us are for us. Gandhi did more Christian things...with great courage...than most modern believers even think is possible. Yet while he followed Christ in his own way...living as if Jesus was real and worthy of obedience, he never claimed to be part of the religion that upheld Jesus as their saviour.

Labels can be misleading. Gandhi considered himself a follower of Christ but not a Christian...he saw though the hypocrisy of the dogmatic religion that has infested the gospel....even at that time. He said...I love your Christ, but not your Christians.

It's funny how so many modern believers don't think that Jesus is worthy of their obedience. Instead these interpret the bible through Luther's interpretation of Paul. This is nowhere near the level of intimacy that God is looking for.

yet the man will not be with believers in heaven since the man rejected Christs free gift of eternal life, rejected Him as Savior and Lord of His life.

He is the perfect example of the self righteous pharisee.

hope this helps !!!

 

[St. SteVen]

What does it mean to be called a disciple of Jesus and what were His conditions on following Him as a disciple ?

What did it mean when in many places He said to count the cost ?

What does it mean to deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow Me ?

What did He mean when He said whoever loses his life for His sake will save it and whoever saves his life will lose it ?

Just some food for thought with your OP to consider.

Salvation is surely a gift and nothing we can earn it but it will cost you everything, even your life.

hope this helps !!!

Great questions.
Jordan Peterson made a sobering comment about this.
He asked who would have the audacity to claim that they were following Christ. (from memory)

 

[St. SteVen]

yet the man will not be with believers in heaven since the man rejected Christs free gift of eternal life, rejected Him as Savior and Lord of His life.

He is the perfect example of the self righteous pharisee.

What do you make of this?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[Episkopos]

Great post, thanks.

I guessing that isn't a slam on Protestantism.
Could you clarify? What sort of intimacy is God looking for?

I think organized dogmatic religion takes away from the kind of spiritual intimacy that God seeks with us.

It was Bono who said something like... once the Holy Spirit leaves the room, religion takes over.

Holiness is about being swept up into God's presence...so that we are two places at once, so to speak. In a heavenly place in the Spirit, yet our bodies are still here on earth. We have this treasure in earthen vessels. To be seated with Christ where He is is to abide in Him in Zion. There are many such abiding places. We are to strive to enter into the kingdom.

Peace

 

[Behold]

It was Bono who said something like... once the Holy Spirit leaves the room, religion takes over.

Once the born again leave the room, religion is all that's left behind.

 

[ChristisGod]

I think organized dogmatic religion takes away from the kind of spiritual intimacy that God seeks with us.

It was Bono who said something like... once the Holy Spirit leaves the room, religion takes over.

Holiness is about being swept up into God's presence...so that we are two places at once, so to speak. In a heavenly place in the Spirit, yet our bodies are still here on earth. We have this treasure in earthen vessels. To be seated with Christ where He is is to abide in Him in Zion. There are many such abiding places. We are to strive to enter into the kingdom.

Peace

The Holy Spirit does not leave the room since He is in every believer and Omnipresent.

Its your misconceptions about God which is where the false teachings come from.

Your post reveals your disorganized dogma about the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

We are to strive to enter into the kingdom.

Real Christians don't "strive to enter into the Kingdom"...

Why not?

A.) Because real CHRISTians have already been ....born again.... into the KOG.

 

[Behold]

All the stuff we do to be Christians.

This isn't what I signed up for. (Grr...)

What did you sign up for, St Steven?

Its seems that you are confusing SALVATION, that is the Cross of Christ, that is the "GIFT"....with you idea of "denominational expectations".


Let me show you something interesting.


Lazarus has 2 Sisters.

Martha and Mary.

Jesus came to visit.......And Martha was busy doing, doing, doing......full of cares., and she whined about her sister who was doing this....

Mary was seated at Jesus's feet (listening).........and Jesus said to Martha...... "your sister is doing what is needed"..


So, there is ... "Present your body as a living sacrifice to God".......but there is also....>"without Faith it is impossible to please God".

Billy Graham said that his regret was that he was too busy, all his life, and this didn't leave nearly enough time for BIBLE and Study, and Fellowship in the quiet times.

So....Of course.....= the work has to be balanced with the fellowship., and sitting in Church, does not qualify for a work, and in most cases, neither does it qualify as fellowship.
It typically qualifies as "i have to go or they will ask me why i didn't"

So, in that case. Just stay at home.
Really.
You're just wasting your time.

 

[marks]

Here is a question for us to address.

Does DOING Christian things MAKE you a Christian?

Doing Christian things won't make you a Christian, however, if you are a Christian, doing Christian things can help you understand what it means to be a Christian, and can help with renewing your mind.

Investing yourself (time, effort, resources) into others, even if your heart isn't in it, will help them, and your heart will follow. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

But I understand what you are talking about. I believe God intends for us to live in daily, moment by moment communion with Him. As we commune with God, we are changed by His love and faithfulness to be loving and faithful. Out of that love and faithfulness we serve others. We are both Mary and Martha, and Mary has the better part.

We are to be careful to maintain good works.

Titus 3:8 KJV
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

So we mustn't neglect the "doing", but again I recognize what you are addressing. We can become so caught up in the doing that we aren't communing with God.

Jesus told the messenger to the church at Ephesus, You've left your first love, go back and do the things you did at the first. Doing can "kick-start" our being, when we've stopped being what we should be.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV
17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18) But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass (a mirror) the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I think @Enoch111 summed it up well, being = doing = being. Because we are Christians, we will do Christian things. And in doing Christian things, we become more Christian-like.

Ephesians 4:13-14 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Here, spiritual maturity is measured in our unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, and that we are settled in a true doctrine.

A question I ask is, Considering all of our honest and sincere disagreements over various things, where do we find the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God?

2 Peter 1:5-8 KJV
5) And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith - Virtue - knowledge - temperance - patience - godliness - These are all about what we are.

brotherly kindness - Christian love - These are about what we do.

Great question!

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Does DOING Christian things MAKE you a Christian?

Yes and No. It makes you a Christian in the sense that you are working out your salvation (which is what God expects), but it does not mean that you are justified by good works. We are justified by grace through faith + NOTHING. Then good works must follow.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes and No. It makes you a Christian in the sense that you are working out your salvation (which is what God expects), but it does not mean that you are justified by good works. We are justified by grace through faith + NOTHING. Then good works must follow.

Yes faith without works is dead James 2

 

[St. SteVen]

The Holy Spirit does not leave the room since He is in every believer and Omnipresent.

Its your misconceptions about God which is where the false teachings come from.

Your post reveals your disorganized dogma about the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!

That was a quote from Bono of U2.

"It was Bono who said something like... once the Holy Spirit leaves the room, religion takes over." - @Episkopos