Hades, Hell ... not the same place!

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, Truth is objective and un changing.

And just what is the Truth to you? there are truths and then there is truth. what is truth to you?

 

[Zachariah]

So as I do not misunderstand you- You think one can be a faithful Muslim and know truth personally?

Of course. But unfortunately the Quran has been taken completely out of context by the majority just as the Bible has.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course. But unfortunately the Quran has been taken completely out of context by the majority just as the Bible has.

You calim to be Christian but deny the very Christ you say you follow.

Sorry but Jesus ruled out anyone or anything else to save other than HImself!

No one can go to the Father except through Jesus! You cannot get there by being a JW or Muslim, Buddhist, Janist, Animist, or anyother religion but Jesus.

 

[Zachariah]

You calim to be Christian but deny the very Christ you say you follow.

Sorry but Jesus ruled out anyone or anything else to save other than HImself!

No one can go to the Father except through Jesus! You cannot get there by being a JW or Muslim, Buddhist, Janist, Animist, or anyother religion but Jesus.

We see things differently.

 

[Zao is life]

That's 2 Deaths.

It's one death. Adam lived in his body. He died the moment God prevented him from eating of the tree of life and living forever. Physical death/decay is merely the proof of death.

 

[Behold]

It's one death. Adam lived in his body. He died the moment God prevented him from eating of the tree of life and living forever. Physical death/decay is merely the proof of death.

The 2nd Death, is literally the continuation of the Adam's initial separation from God, = Spiritually, regarding every unbeliever who died, never being born again.

See, Adam and God were "ONE", ... Spiritual Union.........as "God is A Spirit'......so, to be "one with God", is to be Spiritually joined to God.
When Adam sinned, this spiritual union was broken, and that is a "death"...is how the word defines it.

To be "born again", is to UNDO that spiritual separation. When we are born again......."Jesus said you must be born again"....we are restored by BIRTH of our Spirit, into spiritual union with God, who is "A Spirit".
That's what it means to be BORN......again.
"2nd" = FINAL., ENDLESS..... Eternal.
That is simply.......to never again have the chance to be born again.

Also, you will DIE physically as Adam died physically, and that is Death #2., on Earth.

 

[Zao is life]

"2nd" = FINAL., ENDLESS..... Eternal.

The first lie was that Adam, who was connected with God and living forever, eating of the tree of life at the time, would never die.

Only Christ has eternal life in Himself. Only God has eternal life | immortality in Himself.

Only Christ is immortal: Believe the Word of God:

-- He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- (1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version).

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" John 5:26

Our immortality after our resurrection when we are raised with a spiritual body will be in Christ, who alone is immortal, just as we are now in Christ (in the Spirit).

If we have been resurrected and we do what Adam did, we will most definitely die the 2nd death. This is going to be the fate of some resurrected people 1 thousand years after the resurrection.

There has not been a 2nd death yet. The Bible does not tell you, me or anyone else about Adam's deaths (plural). It tells us about his death (singular), which came to all mankind. It has thus far been as singular as the resurrection. Christ is the resurrection and the life. There will be a 2nd death.

You're inventing theology as you go along.

 

[Behold]

The first lie was that Adam, who was connected with God and living forever, eating of the tree of life at the time, would never die.

Only Christ has eternal life in Himself.

Fullness of the Gentiles..

If you are very familiar with the NT, (Paul's Doctrine) then i wont need to post chapter, version, and color of the ink and text type for you.

Here you go.


1.) "God is A Spirit"

2.) "Christ is THAT Spirit"

3.) "The Holy Spirit".

4.) "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory"

5.) "Temple of the Holy Spirit", = the Born Again Believer.

6.) "If you have not the Holy Spirit in you, then you are none of God's".

7.) "In Christ" = "One with God".

8.) Jesus said...>"i and my Father, are ONE"..... "God is A Spirit".

9.) Jesus said..>"If you've SEEN ME.....You've SEEN the Father",.......... and "God is a Spirit".

10.) "Jesus Breathed on the Apostles and said Receive you the HOLY Spirit".

11.) "God Breathed into Adam, and Adam became a Living Soul".

12) """So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, the 1st Adam, became a living soul ..... the last (2nd) Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit. "


Problem.) = When Adam sinned, His spiritual Union with God, who is '""A Spirit""", was broken.

Solution.). The 2nd ADAM, who is Jesus THE Lord, came to restore us to "One with God", = Born again Spiritually, as "In Christ".

How? = THE CROSS OF CHRIST

Welcome to : SALVATION

Its a "gift".

 

[Zao is life]

Fullness of the Gentiles..

If you are very familiar with the NT, (Paul's Doctrine) then i wont need to post chapter, verse, version, and color of the ink for you.

Here you go.


1.) "God is A Spirit"

2.) "Christ is THAT Spirit"

3.) "The Holy Spirit".

4.) "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory"

5.) "Temple of the Holy Spirit", = the Born Again Believer.

6.) "If you have not the Holy Spirit in you, then you are none of God's".

7.) "In Christ" = "One with God".

8.) Jesus said...>"i and my Father, are ONE"..... "God is A Spirit".

9.) Jesus said..>"If you've SEEN ME.....You've SEEN the Father",.......... and "God is a Spirit".

10.) "Jesus Breathed on the Apostles and said Receive you the HOLY Spirit".

11.) "God Breathed into Adam, and Adam became a Living Soul".


Problem.) = When Adam sinned, His spiritual Union with God, who is '""A Spirit""", was broken.

Solution.). The 2nd ADAM, who is Jesus THE Lord, came to restore us to "One with God", = Born again Spiritually, as "In Christ".

How? = THE CROSS OF CHRIST

Welcome to : SALVATION

Its a "gift".

The above is about Adam and the children of Adam having everlasting life in Christ, who alone has eternal life in Himself.

But how's the above got anything to do with the 2nd death, which is the subject you've been arguing about?

You are also familiar with the teaching of the apostles. Please say why you believe the word "death" below should be translated as "deaths" (plural):

12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned: Romans 5

21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15

Why are you making the word "death" plural in the above verses, inventing your own theology?

Mankind's experience is the death that came to all mankind through Adam, who believed the lie that he would not die. Praise God and thanks be to our wonderful Savior Jesus, Mankind's experience will also be the resurrection from the dead that comes to all mankind through Christ, the last Adam.

But there will be a 2nd death. The Revelation of Jesus Christ tells you so. It has not occurred yet. No doubt it will be people who will follow Satan's lies, believing that because they are resurrected and forgetting that their immortality is in Christ who alone is immortal, who alone has eternal life in Himself, they will not die a 2nd death.

 

[Behold]

But how's the above got anything to do with the 2nd death, which is the subject you've been arguing about?

As i explained....

Adam is the fall of us all, he brought us into :

1.) Spiritual Separation from God = "death" in the Spirit" which is to be disconnected from God, who is "A Spirit"= the Holy Spirit.

2.) Physical death. You are going to die., because of Adam the 1st.

The 2nd Adam, who is Christ The Lord, restores us SPIRITUALLY, = as "born again by the Holy Spirit of God, into the Holy Spirit of God".
= 'one with God"... "IN Christ".

And, this...> Jesus said...."All that believe in me i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall never go to Hell (perish)".

What is that Eternal life?
Its JESUS HIMSELF< who "is that Spirit"..., and when we are born again, we are spiritually born INTO the Holy Spirit, by the Holy Spirit.

"God is A Spirit"
"Jesus is THAT Spirit"

 

[Zao is life]

As i explained....

Adam is the fall of us all, he brought us into :

1.) Spiritual Separation from God = "death" in the Spirit" which is to be disconnected from God, who is "A Spirit"= the Holy Spirit.

2.) Physical death. You are going to die., because of Adam the 1st.

So you're saying that Paul meant that Adam's deaths (plural) brought deaths (plural) to all men? Did Christ have to rise from the dead twice, then?

 

[Behold]

So you're saying that Paul meant that Adam's deaths (plural) brought deaths (plural) to all men? Did Christ have to rise from the dead twice, then?

Paul teaches..

As i explained..

Romans 5

""""Wherefore, as by one man ADAM the 1st... sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"""

""""For if through the offence of one (Adam #1) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."""

This GRACE is "forgiveness of sin", and restoration of Spiritual Union, that is the gift of Eternal Life.

This.

""""" For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."""""

 

[Zao is life]

Paul teaches..

As i explained..

Romans 5

""""Wherefore, as by one man ADAM the 1st... sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"""

""""For if through the offence of one (Adam #1) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."""

This GRACE is "forgiveness of sin", and restoration of Spiritual Union, that is the gift of Eternal Life.

This.

""""" For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."""""

Is life experienced in the body, do you think?

Is eternal life experienced in the body, do you think?

Was being alive in Christ our Creator experienced by Adam in the body, do you think?

How about spiritual death?

@Behold Before Adam died, did he have two lives, i.e one in the Spirit + one in the body?

How about when he died?

 

[Behold]

Is life experienced in the body, do you think?

Is eternal life experienced in the body, do you think?

Was being alive in Christ our Creator experienced by Adam in the body, do you think?

How about spiritual death?

We are SPIRIT beings, made in the IMAGE of GOD......who is "A Spirit".

You are a spirit being, living inside a dying earth suit.
Your body, is not the real you....its the container of the Real you.
They are going to put your earth suit in a box and bury it, or burn it.
= While your Spirit (the real you) has moved on into eternity.

When we become a CHRISTian....our body is not saved....because "the body is DEAD because of SIN"..
The CHRISTian, gets a NEW BODY that is created for the "born... again......Spirit". that is the actual "SON/Daughter of GOD" who is "A Spirit".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We see things differently.

Yes we do! and you rworld view is an unbiblical and thus un- Christ attitude and belief system. You openly deny the teachings of Jesus to accept your "inclusiveness".

 

[Zao is life]

We are SPIRIT beings, made in the IMAGE of GOD......who is "A Spirit".

You are a spirit being, living inside a dying earth suit.
Your body, is not the real you....its the container of the Real you.
They are going to put your earth suit in a box and bury it, or burn it.
= While your Spirit (the real you) has moved on into eternity.

When we become a CHRISTian....our body is not saved....because "the body is DEAD because of SIN"..
The CHRISTian, gets a NEW BODY that is created for the "born... again......Spirit". that is the actual "SON/Daughter of GOD" who is "A Spirit".

Did Adam experience two lives before the fall, i.e one spiritual + one in the body?

How about when he died?

Was Adam's experience of eternal life in Christ our Creator in the body before the fall?

How about when he died?

By the way, there is no such thing as "moving on into eternity". The Bible tells you that you pass from death to life.

Why, do you think, did Christ die for us and rise again from the dead in a body, if life is not supposed to be experienced in the body?

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for every son. Hebrews 2

If life is not meant to be experienced in the body, then why did Jesus say,

39 And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the last day. John 6?

Before the fall, was Adam's everlasting life experienced in the body?

How about when he died?

 

[Behold]

Did Adam experience two lives before the fall, i.e one spiritual + one in the body?

Adam had a living body, that was impacted by his Sin, so that "the body is dead because of sin"... it will stop living.

And Adam's Spiritual Union with God, was broken....and the bible refers to this as "death".... But its not death, in the sense of ended. But rather, in the sense of "separated from God, Spiritually = by Sin"

Sin is the disconnect from God
The Cross of Christ is the RECONNECT To God.

Sin, separates us from God, who is "A Spirit".

"all have sinned". = everyone is separated from God....

2nd Adam, Jesus, came to restore us into Spiritual union with God, but He does not restore our body down here.... its going to die.

The Born again get a new body that is made for our Born again Spirit.

 

[Zao is life]

Adam had a living body, that was impacted by his Sin, so that "the body is dead because of sin"... it will stop living.

Thanks. You can stop there. You've just admitted that there was 1 death when Adam sinned, not two.

 

[Behold]

Thanks. You can stop there. You've just admitted that there was 1 death when Adam sinned, not two.

You said i said that.

Listen, you can't learn, if your purpose here on the Forum, is only to try to argue.
That type of mentality, defeats learning.

What i taught is = that the BIBLE defines Spiritual Separation from God, that Adam encountered, as a "DEATH"

2nd Death is to die as an unbeliever, never born again......= but your spirit does not END.........
The "DEATH" is the DISCONNECT From God's Spirit, that is LIFE, Eternal.

"In ADAM, we all DIE"... = Spiritual separation from God.

AND, our body dies, also.

2 Deaths......as i said.


Ok then.

 

[Jay Ross]

Adam had a living body, that was impacted by his Sin, so that "the body is dead because of sin"... it will stop living.

And Adam's Spiritual Union with God, was broken....and the bible refers to this as "death".... But its not death, in the sense of ended. But rather, in the sense of "separated from God, Spiritually = by Sin"

Sin is the disconnect from God
The Cross of Christ is the RECONNECT To God.

Thanks. You can stop there. You've just admitted that there was 1 death when Adam sinned, not two.

You said i said that.

Listen, you can't learn, if your purpose here on the Forum, is only to try to argue.
That type of mentality, defeats learning.

What i taught is = that the BIBLE defines Spiritual Separation from God, that Adam encountered, as a "DEATH"

2nd Death is to die as an unbeliever, never born again......= but your spirit does not END.........
The "DEATH" is the DISCONNECT From God's Spirit, that is LIFE, Eternal.

"In ADAM, we all DIE"... = Spiritual separation from God.

AND, our body dies, also.

2 Deaths......as i said.


Ok then.

You are both flapping your chops and showing your respective ignorance.

This is what the Interlinear provides: -



The common translation of the consequence of eating from the tree of knowledge in Gen 2:17 is: - "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

However a better translation closer to the context in which God spoke to Adam is: - "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die the second death."

In the second suggested translation it references the second death that the unrighteous experiences after their judge at the end of the last age in the Great White Throne Room when Christ judges all of humanity. It is at this time that the Second death comes into play for all of our sins if our sins have not been redeemed through repentance.

Ezekiel 18? tells us that a wicked person if he repents of the sins that make him a candidate for the Second Death will live if he repents and turns to God's grace for His Salvation.

This same chapter tells us that a righteous man sins against God then he will die the second death if he does not repent.

Adam and Eve both became candidates for the second death when they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. The Bible is silent as to whether or not they repented for eating of the forbidden fruit and subsequently God redeemed them so that they could then live.

Petty bickering w.r.t. to the fall of man and its consequences when both parties are coming from a flawed theological understanding is actual futile bordering on pointlessness.

Shalom