Halloween Street Preaching

[justbyfaith]

To make matters even worse, they spin "Tradition" to be a dirty word.

Tradition is indeed a dirty word.

Here is what a Bible search of the word brought up:

Mat 15:2, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:6, And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mar 7:3, For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mar 7:5, Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:8, For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9, And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:13, Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2Th 3:6, Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Pe 1:18, Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

As you can probably see, there is only one verse in all of scripture that even puts tradition in a positive light. And the majority of scriptures put it in a negative light; especially what Jesus said about it.

 

[Heavenbound]

The light of the Word of God exposes the darkness of night in these days of Sodom and Gomorrah. Please pray for all the soldiers of the Cross on the front lines of battle in these wicked times. The days of fence-sitting are over; you're either going to gather with Jesus or you're going to scatter abroad just as satan wants.

I like the idea of street preaching. If say 50 percent of us committed to this might look like a different world come next year wouldn’t you say?

 

[Marymog]

So, are you saying that the Catholic Church does not teach this?

That's news to me...

And it takes away every reason we might have for division between Catholicism and Protestantism.

For the standard of Protestantism has been the concept of sola scriptura...

And if the Catholic Church now subscribes to this, they have come over to become like the Protestants and we can now come to unity over the teaching of God's word.

Hi JBF,

Soooooo you have failed and can't show me in writing that the "Popes ex-cathedra statements (and certain doctrines of the church) are more authoritative than the Bible itself"!!

You dodged the other questions and selectively quoted me. WHY?

Do you have anything that you teach, preach, practice etc that is infallible?

How many "ex-cathedra statements" have been made by the Popes and what are they?

I agree with you that Scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. It does not say it is the final authority. The fact is Jesus said to his Apostles whatever they bind/loosen on earth will be bound/loosened in heaven. Did that practice end with them? In other words who on earth NOW has the final authority to decide what is authoritive and true doctrine?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

So, are you saying that the Catholic Church does not teach this?

Ummmm......YOU are the one that said that it does soooooo the onerous is on you to back it up with facts kiddo.

Otherwise stop lying and wasting my time.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ummmm......YOU are the one that said that it does soooooo the onerous is on you to back it up with facts kiddo.

Otherwise stop lying and wasting my time.

I am willing to believe you if you will say that it is a lie.

But if you will not say so, then I assume that it is because it is the truth (that the Catholic Church holds some of its doctrines and ex-cathedra statements to be more authoritative than the Bible).

If it is a lie, then the Bible is more authoritative than ex-cathedra statements and certain church doctrines; and the Protestants have won this argument that has taken place over the last four or five centuries.

I don't have access to a lot of church documents.

So I will let a Catholic such as yourself represent the church and tell us all whether the statement that I have made is true or not.

I know that there are other Catholics here also who may correct you if you are wrong.

But whatever you say is the truth, know that you are speaking for the Catholic Church if you make a statement as though it is the truth concerning the Catholic Church, even as a Catholic who is claiming knowledge of the matter.

I'll take your word for it, whatever it is that you say on the matter.

 

[justbyfaith]

You dodged the other questions and selectively quoted me. WHY?

It is my normal practice to quote only those things that I feel led to answer; so that the posts don't become convoluted with unnecessary material.

 

[Marymog]

I am willing to believe you if you will say that it is a lie.

But if you will not say so, then I assume that it is because it is the truth (that the Catholic Church holds some of its doctrines and ex-cathedra statements to be more authoritative than the Bible).

If it is a lie, then the Bible is more authoritative than ex-cathedra statements and certain church doctrines; and the Protestants have won this argument that has taken place over the last four or five centuries.

I don't have access to a lot of church documents.

So I will let a Catholic such as yourself represent the church and tell us all whether the statement that I have made is true or not.

I know that there are other Catholics here also who may correct you if you are wrong.

But whatever you say is the truth, know that you are speaking for the Catholic Church if you make a statement as though it is the truth concerning the Catholic Church, even as a Catholic who is claiming knowledge of the matter.

I'll take your word for it, whatever it is that you say on the matter.

Bloviate all you want....You failed again.

Thank you....

 

[Marymog]

It is my normal practice to quote only those things that I feel led to answer; so that the posts don't become convoluted with unnecessary material.

Sooooo you get to decide what is necessary in our conversations? Hmmmm.....doesn't sound like much of a conversation to me...It's just YOU deciding what WE are going to talk about....

 

[justbyfaith]

Bloviate all you want....You failed again.

Thank you....

So you're not going to say what the teaching of the Catholic Church really is?

I suppose that I failed over the fact that I don't have access to church documents...

So I have asked for your help and for the help of other Catholics here (besides yourself) to tell us what the official teaching of the Catholic Church is concerning this...

Since you are probably more informed on the issue than me (since I am an unashamed Protestant and do not have access to church documents).

So, again I ask, what do you say?

Because I really don't know what the church says about it in their documents.

I do know this...

That the controversy over the authority of the pope and official church doctrine has raged between Catholics and Protestants for centuries...and that the Protestant stance on the issue is that the Bible takes precedence over and above anything that might be said by the pope or official CC doctrine.

If Catholics didn't hold an opposite view to this, then I don't think that there would be any controversy...there would be agreement.

But since there is not agreement, I conclude that official CC doctrine is the opposite of what Protestants believe (that the Bible takes precedence over popery and official CC doctrine)...that the Catholic Church's position is that the pope and official church doctrine are more authoritative than the Bible...

Because if that were not the case, there would be unity between Catholics and Protestants rather than disagreement.

I don't think that I have failed this time, to make my point clear.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sooooo you get to decide what is necessary in our conversations? Hmmmm.....doesn't sound like much of a conversation to me...It's just YOU deciding what WE are going to talk about....

You can say what ever you want to say when it comes to what you are going to type.

If you feel that I have ignored something, you are free to point that out and to bring it up again to the forefront.

But I usually don't even address statements if I don't think of them as a threat to my theology.

 

[Marymog]

So you're not going to say what the teaching of the Catholic Church really is?

I don't think that I have failed this time, to make my point clear.

ONCE AGAIN:

YOU made the accusation that the CC has a certain belief/doctrine/practice....whatever you want to call it.

SOOOOOOO the onerous is upon YOU to prove your claim....not ME!!

Since YOU have not done that YOU FAILED!!

Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

ONCE AGAIN:

YOU made the accusation that the CC has a certain belief/doctrine/practice....whatever you want to call it.

SOOOOOOO the onerous is upon YOU to prove your claim....not ME!!

Since YOU have not done that YOU FAILED!!

Mary

So, in saying that I have failed to make my point, you appear to be saying that the Catholic Church actually teaches that the word of God takes precedence over popery and official CC doctrine.

And that is fine with me...and it also takes away any contention that I, as a Protestant, might have with the Catholic Church.

So then, thank you for admitting that the word of God takes precedence over church doctrine and ex-cathedra statements by the pope.

Because in this, you are saying that Protestants have been right for the past four or five centuries.

For is it not your contention, in asking me to provide documentation for my statement concerning church doctrine, that according to CC doctrine the pope and church doctrine take precedence over scripture, that this is not the official teaching of the catholic Church?

And if it truly isn't, then Protestants have been right for the past four or five centuries concerning the authority of holy scripture.

But if it is, then we are back to square one.

Either way, I win!

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi justbyfaith,

Sooooo according to your theory Catholic doctrine does not have the word of the Lord to back it up because Catholic doctrine is not biblical.

Is your doctrine backed up by the word of the Lord and biblical?

Mary

Yes, Catholic doctrine does not have the word of the Lord to back it up;

Unless you concede that the Catholic Church has been wrong for the past four or five centuries in denying that the word of God has the final authority on every issue.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, Catholic doctrine does not have the word of the Lord to back it up;

Unless you concede that the catholic Church has been wrong for the past four or five centuries in denying that the word of God has the final authority on every issue.

Thank you.

Who's doctrine does have the word of the Lord to back it up?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

So, in saying that I have failed to make my point, you appear to be saying that the Catholic Church actually teaches that the word of God takes precedence over popery and official CC doctrine.

And that is fine with me...and it also takes away any contention that I, as a Protestant, might have with the Catholic Church.

So then, thank you for admitting that the word of God takes precedence over church doctrine and ex-cathedra statements by the pope.

Because in this, you are saying that Protestants have been right for the past four or five centuries.

For is it not your contention, in asking me to provide documentation for my statement concerning church doctrine, that according to CC doctrine the pope and church doctrine take precedence over scripture, that this is not the official teaching of the catholic Church?

And if it truly isn't, then Protestants have been right for the past four or five centuries concerning the authority of holy scripture.

But if it is, then we are back to square one.

Either way, I win!

It's pretty simple kiddo. You made a statement. You didn't back it up. You failed. It is not up to me to back up a statement of yours that I disagree with!

Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

It's pretty simple kiddo. You made a statement. You didn't back it up. You failed. It is not up to me to back up a statement of yours that I disagree with!

Mary

If you disagree with my one statement, then you agree with my other statement.

You agree therefore, that the word of God takes precedence over Catholic doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you.

Who's doctrine does have the word of the Lord to back it up?

Curious Mary

Anyone who communicates the word of God with faithful exegesis.

 

[Marymog]

Tradition is indeed a dirty word.

Here is what a Bible search of the word brought up:

Mat 15:2, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:6, And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mar 7:3, For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mar 7:5, Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:8, For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9, And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:13, Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2Th 3:6, Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Pe 1:18, Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

As you can probably see, there is only one verse in all of scripture that even puts tradition in a positive light. And the majority of scriptures put it in a negative light; especially what Jesus said about it.

Oh boy....someone is cherry picking Scripture and taking it out of context to fit their personal belief instead of what was taught to us by God.

You forgot the other two passages that put tradition in a positive light: 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 1 Corinthians 11:2!

YOU say its a dirty word....Scripture says to hold fast to it. I believe Scripture, not you.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

If you disagree with my one statement, then you agree with my other statement.

You agree therefore, that the word of God takes precedence over Catholic doctrine.

It's pretty simple kiddo. You made a statement. You didn't back it up. You failed. It is not up to me to back up a statement of yours that I disagree with!

 

[Marymog]

Anyone who communicates the word of God with faithful exegesis.

Wow....that's pretty broad. Do the men of the CC fit your broad criteria?