Hard Truth For Non Tongue Speakers

[JesusIsFaithful]

"The problem with those fellow believers is that they excuse themselves by saying God looks at the heart, and so they never repent." <---how do you know they do not repent??

By continuing to practice iniquity as if they are not sinning. My nephew said this as if God looking at his heart is what counts for living by keeping his commitment to Christ. My dad excuses it for them by saying "God looks at the heart".

Maybe some do not, but then you have a slew of non-tonguers who do not repent and continue in sin like they have a license to do so because they think they are saved.

Tongue speakers and commitment keepers are still saved. They are not abiding in Him. When believers refer to "God sees my heart" to justify doing what they are doing, then that is continuing in that iniquity without repentance.

The Bridegroom is coming soon. Any one, even me, is found in unrepentant iniquity, are at risk of being left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation. That is why I am praying for my escape.

We need not criticize those who do this, as I believe it is a matter between them and God alone.
I see no problem putting your view out there but, once you do...leave it to God to convict or not...this is just IMO, I hate divisions in the Church, anywhere really. And, no...I do not speak in tongues :)

Be blessed!
-nancy

As I said, my dad does the same thing in making "excuses" for others for what they are doing, but that does not do those in iniquity any good when the Bridegroom comes. I just do not want you making the same mistake my dad is doing.

The Bridegroom will be excommunicating those found in iniquity and receiving those found abiding in Him to the Marriage Supper. That judgment has already been given for why the church is to excommunicate unrepentant brthrens.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Of course, when it comes to church fellowship, when they repent finally, they are allowed back into fellowship.

However, when it comes to the Marriage Supper, once that door is shut, no one can have that first inheritance. That is the loss that the prodigal son will have in being left behind, but he is still in His House as a vessel unto dishonor for he is His.

The call is to depart from iniquity by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so that we may be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House wearing His crowning achievements.

That call also applies to me as I rely on Him all the time as I trust Him to keep me from my sins and to walk in the light. It wouldn't do me any good to say God knows your heart to me if I am still sinning because I fail to see the need to repent.

 

[Helen]

Did you not judge those involved in the "holy laughter" movement? So how could you do that? If at all, because what is one act of confusion of uncontrollable laughter to tongues without interpretation when they are the same? You may find yourself taken in by the holy laughter movement.

You do talk a 'load of it.'

Yes and I stand by what I said in ref to the 'holy laughter' thing.
Just because some people drink and get drunk...does than mean that everyone who takes a glass of wine with their meal is lumped in together with them?
There are fake $100 bills too, but does that mean that all $100 are lumped in with them too?
Why the heck do you keep lumping everyone together?
You openly attacked Amadeus in this thread...just because he speaks in tongues. My sister in law and my brother are/were into the 'holy laughter' thing. I did not attack them.

Just take your phobia somewhere else.
I am disappointed in you. I have seen you put up some excellent posts on the forum...but on this subject you are totally way off in the left field and distracted by your obsession. That is sad..very sad.

 

[amadeus]

You do know my take on the issue of tongues Helen...my problem with folks like JIF is, they spread their lies about tongue speakers making people believe they are not saved unless they speak in tongues...that was the belief in my first Protestant Church...I did feel unsaved. BUT-that is NOT the norm, not all, and very few (IMO) Churches who practice this say you MUST speak in tongues or you are not really saved.
So, let God see your heart, tongue or not...you are a true and sweet child of God Almighty!!!
Much love in our Lord
-nancy

There are groups of tongue talkers who believe non-tongue talkers are lost and there are groups that believe a person who does not talk in tongues may be saved.

In the very first church I attended after Catholicism, being completely Bible ignorant, I was told from the pulpit in front of the congregation that if I did not receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I was going to hell. At the time I really did not know enough to understand the man and he would not answer my questions, but God helped me with that. I had started to read the Bible myself and I was learning to talk to God. Eventually I came to believe that that pastor was in error but that took time. We must be growing all of the time, so until we have overcome as Jesus overcame, we learn to wait always on the Lord rather than jumping to conclusions one way or the other.

 

[Helen]

Tongue speakers and commitment keepers are still saved. They are not abiding in Him.

Good grief man.... are you losing it or something...I think you need serious counselling and help. Seriously.

That statement you made is NOT your call, that is GODS...You are overstepping your place here...you are NOT the Holy Spirit neither are you GOD!!
Get off of religious high horse...
You have NO IDEA who is and who is not Abiding in the Lord. Crying out loud..do you ever listen to yourself?

Your Quote :- "to justify doing what they are doing, then that is continuing in that iniquity without repentance. "

You are really showing your religious legalism colours now.
You are sounding like a religious loony.
. . . .

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You do know my take on the issue of tongues Helen...my problem with folks like JIF is, they spread their lies about tongue speakers making people believe they are not saved unless they speak in tongues...that was the belief in my first Protestant Church...I did feel unsaved. BUT-that is NOT the norm, not all, and very few (IMO) Churches who practice this say you MUST speak in tongues or you are not really saved.
So, let God see your heart, tongue or not...you are a true and sweet child of God Almighty!!!
Much love in our Lord
-nancy

If you pay attention, Nancy, eventually, they all testify in such a way that the hearers reach that inevitable conclusion that they do not have the Holy Spirit and thus they are not saved. They do not have to say it so directly, but when it comes to talking about receiving the baptism with the Holy Ghost so they can speak and/or pray in tongues, then what is a non-tongue speaker to think?

One poster in another thread about "praying in tongues" claimed he would never say that, but then he referred to Acts 8 as if to prove that a believer has not received the Holy Spirit yet, and eventually, I was pinning him down to explain why he is using it when ..

#1. They did not speak in tongues
#2. Luke testified that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and so they were not saved yet as of Romans 8:9

So either he was attempting to use it as proof that a saved believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again" apart from salvation by a sign of tongues ( when Luke said that they never had the holy Spirit yet ) or he was using it as proof that believers need to seek to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues to know that they are saved.

He thinks I was trying to trick him, but he never explained why he was referring to it in the first place for making his case about receiving the Holy Spirit apart from the calling of the gospel just to get tongues with no interpretation which pretty much leaves any believer room to doubt that they had the Holy Spirit when they had first believed.

Acts 8 explains that Simon's heart was not right with the Lord as the people's heart was not right with the Lord. One can see afterwards in how the Lord used Philip to preach to the Ethiopian eunuch by him asking him this question.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

So apparently, Philip was water baptizing Simon and the people before but their hearts were not fully into Him, but following Philip around like fans, wanting to see more miracles from him. So they believed about the "things" Philip was preaching about, but their hearts was in following him to see wondrous miracles, rather than believing in Jesus Christ to be saved which was totally different from what the eunuch had done.

So watch how some tongue speakers will refer to that as "proof" that a believer can receive the Holy Spirit again if not for the first time by the evidence of tongues without really discerning why Luke bothered to give the background about the people in relations to Simon for why their hearts were not quite right in coming to the Lord when all eyes were on Philip.

They were not saved until they were born again of the Spirit.. and they never spoke in tongues when they all spoke the same language. Neither did the eunuch.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You do talk a 'load of it.'

Yes and I stand by what I said in ref to the 'holy laughter' thing.
Just because some people drink and get drunk...does than mean that everyone who takes a glass of wine with their meal is lumped in together with them?
There are fake $100 bills too, but does that mean that all $100 are lumped in with them too?
Why the heck do you keep lumping everyone together?

You had been filled at your salvation;

Matthew 9:Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is the testimony where no more filling means you are complete in Christ.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

To ask for the Holy Spirit again is to make the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation just for the sign of tongues without interpretation because it is not of Him at all.

You openly attacked Amadeus in this thread...just because he speaks in tongues. My sister in law and my brother are/were into the 'holy laughter' thing. I did not attack them.

Just take your phobia somewhere else.
I am disappointed in you. I have seen you put up some excellent posts on the forum...but on this subject you are totally way off in the left field and distracted by your obsession. That is sad..very sad.

Do you consider reproofs as attacking the poster and not just on what they are doing?

Do you consider the judgments from the Bible as not a warning?

Was God attacking the 5 churches in Revelation, calling them to repent or else?

Something to think about.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Good grief man.... are you losing it or something...I think you need serious counselling and help. Seriously.

That statement you made is NOT your call, that is GODS...You are overstepping your place here...you are NOT the Holy Spirit neither are you GOD!!
Get off of religious high horse...
You have NO IDEA who is and who is not Abiding in the Lord. Crying out loud..do you ever listen to yourself?

Your Quote :- "to justify doing what they are doing, then that is continuing in that iniquity without repentance. "

You are really showing your religious legalism colours now.
You are sounding like a religious loony.
. . . . View attachment 3087

I understand that is how you feel about it, but scripture was used to reprove the modern day tongue movement as not of Him at all when believers insists on having that other drink of the One Spirit from what every believer has been baptized by just so they can speak in tongues without interpretation.

2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

You guys are not teaching that tradition nor holding fast to that tradition for how you bear testimony in getting that tongue by another drink of the One Spirit. You are the ones departing from us by departing from the testimony below that we all are supposed to share in in keeping the faith.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Nancy]

If you pay attention, Nancy, eventually, they all testify in such a way that the hearers reach that inevitable conclusion that they do not have the Holy Spirit and thus they are not saved. They do not have to say it so directly, but when it comes to talking about receiving the baptism with the Holy Ghost so they can speak and/or pray in tongues, then what is a non-tongue speaker to think?

One poster in another thread about "praying in tongues" claimed he would never say that, but then he referred to Acts 8 as if to prove that a believer has not received the Holy Spirit yet, and eventually, I was pinning him down to explain why he is using it when ..

#1. They did not speak in tongues
#2. Luke testified that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and so they were not saved yet as of Romans 8:9

So either he was attempting to use it as proof that a saved believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again" apart from salvation by a sign of tongues ( when Luke said that they never had the holy Spirit yet ) or he was using it as proof that believers need to seek to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues to know that they are saved.

He thinks I was trying to trick him, but he never explained why he was referring to it in the first place for making his case about receiving the Holy Spirit apart from the calling of the gospel just to get tongues with no interpretation which pretty much leaves any believer room to doubt that they had the Holy Spirit when they had first believed.

Acts 8 explains that Simon's heart was not right with the Lord as the people's heart was not right with the Lord. One can see afterwards in how the Lord used Philip to preach to the Ethiopian eunuch by him asking him this question.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

So apparently, Philip was water baptizing Simon and the people before but their hearts were not fully into Him, but following Philip around like fans, wanting to see more miracles from him. So they believed about the "things" Philip was preaching about, but their hearts was in following him to see wondrous miracles, rather than believing in Jesus Christ to be saved which was totally different from what the eunuch had done.

So watch how some tongue speakers will refer to that as "proof" that a believer can receive the Holy Spirit again if not for the first time by the evidence of tongues without really discerning why Luke bothered to give the background about the people in relations to Simon for why their hearts were not quite right in coming to the Lord when all eyes were on Philip.

They were not saved until they were born again of the Spirit.. and they never spoke in tongues when they all spoke the same language. Neither did the eunuch.

"which pretty much leaves any believer room to doubt that they had the Holy Spirit when they had first believed." This is why I had to leave the 1st Prot. Church...they believed that...there are even classes to TEACH you how to speak in tongues. That is crossing the line. Holy laughter, gyrating on the floor like they were having a seizure, slaying in the spirit...it all scared me and I actually stayed there for almost 2 years until I couldn't take t anymore. God was not done with me yet though...I was led to an Assembly of God Church which I stayed at for about 4 years, I learned allot in the bible studies but, not so much from the pastor...he was pretty legalistic. Since then, I have grown and came to understand that we receive the Holy Spirit upon conversion, which was a relief as I was at the time of my 1st Prot. Church experience, struggling with the Calvinist doctrine. If you are free in Christ, you are free indeed!!
As I do not understand the tongues as used today, and as I know and love many who do practice it...I will not judge them, only pray for them to see what might be or not be the truth. Now, if I were a pastor, I would have to take anyone who blurts out unintelligible words that is not a human language and no interpreter aside to correct them, I'm not a leader of the Church so, I would think it would be their job to keep the order. I also cannot understand the praying in tongues, my one of my brothers and one of my sisters and many friends also do. Who am I to judge them? I will tell them my take but that's all, I leave it alone for them and God. I know you will think me a wimp for not CORRECTING them but, I feel it is not my place to, esp. since I'm not well, versed-so to speak, lol-enough to convince anyone, and it would just cause strife and arguments. I am allergic to arguments!
-In Him
-nancy

 

[amadeus]

"The problem with those fellow believers is that they excuse themselves by saying God looks at the heart, and so they never repent." <---how do you know they do not repent?? Maybe some do not, but then you have a slew of non-tonguers who do not repent and continue in sin like they have a license to do so because they think they are saved. We need not criticize those who do this, as I believe it is a matter between them and God alone.
I see no problem putting your view out there but, once you do...leave it to God to convict or not...this is just IMO, I hate divisions in the Church, anywhere really. And, no...I do not speak in tongues :)

Be blessed!
-nancy

Repentance is the secret, that is no secret, of my own walk with God. I cannot speak for all of the rest of the tongue talkers. I repent every morning when I read and pray. To be certain I have done so I always return to the "lowest room", which means I start with nothing as when I first started to really serve God:

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.' Luke 14:8-11

The lowest room position means that I have nothing, not even tongues, on which to stand: No preconceived notions or beliefs or doctrines. Then if God pleases, [and He always has so far], He will lift me up again as He pleases.

I believe that because too many believers do not do this regularly they find themselves losing their first love which is found according to this verse:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Our first love is the love of truth. As we know, Jesus is the truth, but how well do people know him? In the beginning of our walk not very well, but God knew that better than us and treated us accordingly. However, we must be growing, our vision of Jesus improving, even though it may still be as through a glass darkly. Failure to grow and to have our vision improved will cause us to lose sight of the truth we had and as @bbyrd009 might put it move then to Nehushtan [II Kings 18:4] which means in this case to delusion:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

 

[Truth]

You had better take care.

This that you have said against @amadeus is ungodly and evil.
Who died and made you the last word on spiritual gifts.
You don't even know what you are talking about!
Just stop your mouth or God may stop it for you.
You have a REAL problem and you are fighting AGAINST God's Holy Spirit.
You stand on dangerous ground.

You are standing where Jesus said to the Pharisees.
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people's faces. You won't go in yourselves, and you don't let others enter either."

Just because you have some demonic phobia...about speaking in tongues , and yes, your phobia is from the Devil ....you choose the throw it back at God , fine...but leave others alone. God wants them to have all that He has for them.
You don't want it your self and are running scared, and you are determined to stop others by scaring them into the same phobia that you have.

Shame on you!!

I just got done watching a teaching, from a Karait Jew, and He had a man that was a pastor for 13 years, and he was explaining a parable about calling some one a fool, we all know that verse! This man explained that when you say! you fool you are basically saying that person is without God, which in-dangers the accuser of Hell Fire. He tied it back to Isaiah, where it says!!! A fool say's in his heart, that there is no God! We will be held accountable for every word that proceeds from our Hearts, and in this case our Key Boards!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Based on the OP, I believe the title should have said "Hard Truth for Tongues Speakers".

There is little doubt that *prayer language* (as postulated by Pentecostals and Charismatics today) is NOT the spiritual gift of tongues (which really should have been translated as "languages").

GLOSSAIS = LANGUAGES = FOREIGN LANGUAGES SPOKEN SUPERNATURALLY.

False

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

"which pretty much leaves any believer room to doubt that they had the Holy Spirit when they had first believed." This is why I had to leave the 1st Prot. Church...they believed that...there are even classes to TEACH you how to speak in tongues. That is crossing the line. Holy laughter, gyrating on the floor like they were having a seizure, slaying in the spirit...it all scared me and I actually stayed there for almost 2 years until I couldn't take t anymore. God was not done with me yet though...I was led to an Assembly of God Church which I stayed at for about 4 years, I learned allot in the bible studies but, not so much from the pastor...he was pretty legalistic. Since then, I have grown and came to understand that we receive the Holy Spirit upon conversion, which was a relief as I was at the time of my 1st Prot. Church experience, struggling with the Calvinist doctrine. If you are free in Christ, you are free indeed!!
As I do not understand the tongues as used today, and as I know and love many who do practice it...I will not judge them, only pray for them to see what might be or not be the truth. Now, if I were a pastor, I would have to take anyone who blurts out unintelligible words that is not a human language and no interpreter aside to correct them, I'm not a leader of the Church so, I would think it would be their job to keep the order. I also cannot understand the praying in tongues, my one of my brothers and one of my sisters and many friends also do. Who am I to judge them? I will tell them my take but that's all, I leave it alone for them and God. I know you will think me a wimp for not CORRECTING them but, I feel it is not my place to, esp. since I'm not well, versed-so to speak, lol-enough to convince anyone, and it would just cause strife and arguments. I am allergic to arguments!
-In Him
-nancy

Well, sister, you can always ask the Lord for wisdom to understand His words that expose the works of darkness out there that you may not be aware of yet, but I agree that if you do not understand it, you are not in a position to correct them by His words nor judge that tongue as not of Him by His words, but it is in His words for you to ask Him to see those truths.

We are to love one another, even those that have gone astray.

I pray that one day when I come across something I do not understand, I trust the Lord as my Good Shepherd to help me discern it in proving or reproving it by His words. But He has done that for me about tongues without interpretation as gained by another drink of the One Spirit which is in effect, another calling and thus another gospel they are preaching.

Only the Lord can help you see the apostasy in what they are involved in.

You are not a wimp for not correcting them, but by admitting that you do not understand it, you should refrain from supporting it even in a small way. I believe you picked up that saying "God looks at the heart" from somewhere, and had applied it inappropriately to this issue at hand in this thread. It is okay to love them, but not okay to say things like that if you are not sure what they are doing isn't of evil for what the Bridegroom will judge them for.

Soon, the Lord will lead me to let go and be silent since they do not hear Him nor His words; then neither will they hear mine. I trust Him to help me withdraw in keeping His commandment to withdraw when He says it is time to go.

 

[bbyrd009]

Our first love is the love of truth.

i might have used a different term, but that is one way to put it. i guess maybe that is the way to put it, and i only have reservations bc the most deceived would also say that they loved truth. So i don't mean to DQ it, but imo come up with a couple other different ways to ID your first love, that are maybe a bit less harder to mislabel accidentally, that should also witness to "truth." i know this sounds weird prolly, but i could even make a case that Truth is not as important to us as...i dunno, maybe Grace or something?
If I speak human or angelic languages but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

so obv we are directed back to love there, but imo pick a less abused, more descriptive word, or even phrase, in your personal reflections i mean. What is your first love? Imo being your first, it would have been something loved...well, at the very first. Ergo also abandoned long ago. Go so far as to recall a scenario in which you were contemplating your first love, or basking in it or something. identify when you abandoned it even.

of course we are led to contemplate our "first love" after ________, right, after we "got saved" or "after baptism," etc, but i suggest tossing this constriction being as it is not in Scripture, even if it is...intimated, suggested by our deaths in baptism. Don't get me wrong, doesn't hurt to consider your first church love too i guess, what was it that had you so juiced about salvation, that gets lost, but i suggest that church maybe brought to mind your real first love, the possibility of it actually being ext...existing somewhere, that had maybe already been long "abandoned."

 

[bbyrd009]

We will be held accountable for every word that proceeds from our Hearts, and in this case our Key Boards!

this happens in realtime, regardless of our belief in some future event where we are standing in front of a bench while God as Judge sits behind it, and the whole "courtroom" is like watching a video of every idle word we have uttered our entire lives
imo

 

[bbyrd009]

False

ya, i thought that was xenoglossy myself?
But i have also noticed some definitions of Gloss popping up that have appropriated the definition!
Iow wouldn't surprise me if he had a "source" for that! a new Strong's even

 

[amadeus]

i might have used a different term, but that is one way to put it. i guess maybe that is the way to put it, and i only have reservations bc the most deceived would also say that they loved truth. So i don't mean to DQ it, but imo come up with a couple other different ways to ID your first love, that are maybe a bit less harder to mislabel accidentally, that should also witness to "truth." i know this sounds weird prolly, but i could even make a case that Truth is not as important to us as...i dunno, maybe Grace or something?
If I speak human or angelic languages but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

When someone says that they loved the truth, they often have decided that they already know what the truth is absolutely and it is unchanging. Absolute truth may be unchanging, but who knows what it is as absolutely as that? Pontius Pilate asked the question, "What is truth" and many have said well the truth, Jesus, was standing before him at the time, he was simply blind. While this is so... that is that Jesus is the truth, who knows Jesus so well as that? What I knew of him in the beginning of my knowledge of him was certainly not equal to what I know now. What I know tomorrow or later may also be somewhat different than my present knowledge.

We are to love "Truth" even though we may not understand it fully. We need to love truth in spite of the misunderstanding or gaps in understanding of it that we have. Pilate asked again, What is truth? If I were to ask on a new thread on this forum that question or "Who or what is Jesus?... how many different answers would I get from different "believers"?

So then we are, as I see it, to love truth even when we do not fully know or understand what truth is. Our love should continue to be there even as our perception of it changes. It is what God knows to be truth that we are to love. Who else knows it He does?

so obv we are directed back to love there, but imo pick a less abused, more descriptive word, or even phrase, in your personal reflections i mean. What is your first love? Imo being your first, it would have been something loved...well, at the very first. Ergo also abandoned long ago. Go so far as to recall a scenario in which you were contemplating your first love, or basking in it or something. identify when you abandoned it even.

People often are unable to separate love from lust as someone had said. The word "charity" understood by its usage in I Cor chapter 13 would be helpful if it were really more important to believers than faith or hope as that chapter indicates.

What is our first love? I have come believe that Jesus spelled it out here:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

The underlined things are the first things he told us to seek. The seeking of them does not stop in that first moment we are able to see anything at all. We are to keep on seeking. If we do not, we will lose sight of what we have already seen. From as through a glass darkly we would revert to blindness. We would think that we were still seeing, but it would be a delusion:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

of course we are led to contemplate our "first love" after ________, right, after we "got saved" or "after baptism," etc, but i suggest tossing this constriction being as it is not in Scripture, even if it is...intimated, suggested by our deaths in baptism. Don't get me wrong, doesn't hurt to consider your first church love too i guess, what was it that had you so juiced about salvation, that gets lost, but i suggest that church maybe brought to mind your real first love, the possibility of it actually being ext...existing somewhere, that had maybe already been long "abandoned."

People get involved in this thought or that doctrine or this truth or that project, etc. and they really do not remember what their first love was or when they really had it early on they never bothered to really identify it and move forward from there:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:4-5

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Repentance is the secret, that is no secret, of my own walk with God. I cannot speak for all of the rest of the tongue talkers. I repent every morning when I read and pray. To be certain I have done so I always return to the "lowest room", which means I start with nothing as when I first started to really serve God:

Since any reproofs usually offends, I would prefer to address the readers of this response.

He is defending praying in tongues. As much as he tries to justify about praying in tongues in pleasing God by the scripture, here is how he is not pleasing God; by talking about praying in private.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

So what is the point about praying in tongues or even speaking in tongues when tongue speakers claim it is for private use? If it is just to share with others that use tongues for private use, then where is the benefit in that when it is just for the tongue speaker's private use? Brag much?

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Heathens do pray in supernatural vain & profane babbling tongues so how can a believer avoiding that appearance of evil?

Matthew 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Can you as a non-tongue speaker see the lack of validity for the Holy Spirit to use tongues for uttering His own intercessions out loud? The Father already knows by the Son having searched our hearts and having known the mind of the Spirit to make His silent intercessions known to the Father for that promise in Matthew 6:8 to apply to every believer.

It is errant Bible versions of Romans 8:26-27 that misled believers into thinking that tongue is God's gift of tongues when the KJV does not support that false tongue at all when the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings!!

Romans 8: 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

But wayward believers prefers the errant version even though Romans 8:26-27 in that errant version goes against the truth testified by the Lord Jesus in how the Holy Spirit will NOT speak and how the Holy Spirit will speak in John 16:13.

If you do not believe that about your version which is not the KJV, then check it out now of what He said in John 16:13.

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful
For your information, the first Bible I ever read was the KJV. It is still the only version I read and study regularly in English.
Give God the glory as you search for more of Him!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

For your information, the first Bible I ever read was the KJV. It is still the only version I read and study regularly in English.
Give God the glory as you search for more of Him!

I do wish this brother of mine would shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally in English regularly.

Can non tongue speakers appreciate knowing what you had prayed for, and once you had your answers to prayers, is it not more pleasing to God the Father to know you are thanking Him for answers to prayers in Jesus's name rather than not knowing what that tongue is doing?

Tongue speakers wants to pray in tongues, but they can't tell the difference between what they believe is the Holy Spirit praying in tongues or giving thanks in tongues or giving worship in tongues OR when supposedly the Holy Spirit switches modes ( as if that is not confusing ) to self edify the tongue speaker himself without interpretation at all for why the gift of prophesy is better than tongues which is what Paul was trying to say in comparing the 2 against each other in how tongues is not a stand alone gift... ever, but the gift of prophesy is because it needs no interpretation.

But tongue speakers lose sight of the context of the message in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter as if Paul is vouching for tongues for private use, and by taking verses out of context in exalting tongues for private use, one wonders why the gift of prophesy is better than tongues at all with all those supposed benefits without interpretation. That is proof of making their kind of tongues without interpretation to fit in the scripture when Paul was not saying that at all.

So do not be misled by tongue speakers. You are not missing out on anything. You are complete in Christ since your salvation. There is no other calling to heed. There is no other baptism with the Holy Ghost to be had. You are saved.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Rest in Jesus today that the Holy Spirit is making silent intercessions for you and Jesus Christ at that throne of grace is searching your hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is how & why the Father knows before you ask anything in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

 

[Helen]

I do wish this brother of mine would shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally in English regularly.

Can non tongue speakers appreciate knowing what you had prayed for, and once you had your answers to prayers, is it not more pleasing to God the Father to know you are thanking Him for answers to prayers in Jesus's name rather than not knowing what that tongue is doing?

Tongue speakers wants to pray in tongues, but they can't tell the difference between what they believe is the Holy Spirit praying in tongues or giving thanks in tongues or giving worship in tongues OR when supposedly the Holy Spirit switches modes ( as if that is not confusing ) to self edify the tongue speaker himself without interpretation at all for why the gift of prophesy is better than tongues which is what Paul was trying to say in comparing the 2 against each other in how tongues is not a stand alone gift... ever, but the gift of prophesy is because it needs no interpretation.

But tongue speakers lose sight of the context of the message in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter as if Paul is vouching for tongues for private use, and by taking verses out of context in exalting tongues for private use, one wonders why the gift of prophesy is better than tongues at all with all those supposed benefits without interpretation. That is proof of making their kind of tongues without interpretation to fit in the scripture when Paul was not saying that at all.

So do not be misled by tongue speakers. You are not missing out on anything. You are complete in Christ since your salvation. There is no other calling to heed. There is no other baptism with the Holy Ghost to be had. You are saved.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Rest in Jesus today that the Holy Spirit is making silent intercessions for you and Jesus Christ at that throne of grace is searching your hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is how & why the Father knows before you ask anything in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

I just popped back here after a while of ignoring this Thread. :)

I find that you somehow seem to be under the illusion that you "know so much about what 'tongue speakers' do, pray, or think...how can this be, as you aren't one!!! You sound as if you have lived in deepest Mongolia and are expounding upon it...but in fact you have never been to deepest Mongolia, can't speak their language and know nothing about them at all...but that doesn't stop you 'waxing eloquent' on the subject!! LOL