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Hardship / Trials

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by aspen, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    is it punishment?
    Is it demonic attack?
    Is it teaching/shaping us for Heaven?
    Is it simply the result of practice?

    How do you understand hardship in this life?
     
  2. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is a must.
    The son's must mature and grown.
    2 Tim 2-3
    " Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."
    Soldiers need training.
    It is a known fact that if a person plants a tree and keeps it 'safe' from the storms and wind...the tree will not put down roots...it doesn't need to, no elements come against it to harden it.

    We need roots.
    Moses did not have it easy...it says " Moses endured, as seeing Him who is invisible.." I love that verse.

    In the trials...we endure by "beholding the Lamb".

    Not saying that the devils don't attack...and try to get us down.
    For sure they do...they want to see us lose our trust and faith in Father. Like when they came to Eve..and Jesus in the wilderness..
    " Hath God said..." and " If thou be.."
    Always a word of doubt thrown at us in the trial. But we hold tight to the Love that we know He is. Faith wins the day.
     
  3. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Love this! I might ask though ...are we softened or hardened to receive love?
    Isaiah 28:24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Boy...
    Gosh
    Dammit

    This flies is the face of my crusade against dualism
    That knowing Good is not dependant on knowing evil

    I am still clinging to the idea that we do not need contrast to know Good
     
  5. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure I understand? What do you mean “that knowing good is not dependent on knowing evil”?
     
  6. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    God is Good, which is not dependant on evil
    Evil is completely dependant on Good for it’s existence because the definition of evil is a lesser form of good.
    The relationship between good and evil is the same as the relationship between hot and cold. Evil is merely a lesser form of good.
     
  7. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    How do we account for this....
    KJV Hebrews 5
    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
     
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  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Is it a punishment? It can be occasionally.
    Is it demonic attack? It often is.
    Is it the result of our practice (i.e. our behavior and decisions)? It often is here as well.
    Is it teaching/shaping us for Heaven? That one is iffy. To me it is more a test of our obedience and faithfulness to God, as with Job.
    Well that's an interesting pursuit. :) Very curious. I suppose you could say knowing good verses great might do it. Say, if in the garden they ate one kind of fruit that was good, then another kind that was fantastic. Or fruit that was almost ripe, then the same fruit now that it was fully ripe.

    So I'd say suffering through real hardships in life just makes us all that much MORE thankful for the greatness of Heaven.

    It's interesting; I've often read that the stench of Hell is almost unbearable, a mix of the most detestable and putrid smells known to creation. Whenever I smell a terrible stench I am reminded of it, and that I definitely don't want to be going to Hell.

    So why are you on the warpath against dualism?
     
  9. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    But still God says to choose life and good. Rather than death and evil(calamity). I’m sorry. It is late here and I’m about to sign off for the night. If I understand you correctly then I would agree good which God is, does not depend on evil(calamity, confusion). You say good and evil are not far apart ...evil just lesser. Does evil feel “not that far apart” from good when you experience it? Separation from God is evil. You are humble Aspen. I’ve read some of what you have gone through and it would seem you have stared evil in the face. How does it compare to good? How does death compare to life in Him? I wish there was no suffering or death or darkness but there is. What convicted you to post a while back that you were going to stop letting hateful comments of posters provoke you? Don’t we long to do good because we know what the absence of good(God) feels like? Don’t we stop hating because we know hate hurts and destroys? How do we know if we haven’t experienced it?

    Acts 8:32-33
    [32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: [33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
     
  10. Blueberry

    Blueberry Member

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    I think that it starts with the Curse.

    17To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
    Genesis 3:17-19

    So, in general, I see them as a punishment. But specifically, personally, individually, I see them as chastisement. As they often force me to my knees. Rather than receiving my due, it is meant for my good and growth. Though this is the result of my practice(s).

    Demonic attack? Can be.

    I believe that they do teach and shape us for Heaven. Even if that may not be the primary purpose/cause. If it shapes me more into the character of Christ, here and now, as mentioned, this has the inescapable result of shaping me for Heaven.

    Definitely also a test of obedience. A test of faith and trust too.

    Not sure if Evil is dependent on Good, but doubt Good is dependent on Evil. However, knowing them may be?
     
  11. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    My own belief is that we get well and truly broken to receive love.
    Love fills the cracks. Hardness is resistant ...love usually bounces off.
    That is my experience.
    I also think that we must desire love. It can't be forced on anyone.
    We can love them without them being willing, but they can't receive it without being willing. I think more than just willing, hungry for it.

    Take all the dog rescue video's ( I am a glutton for them...I love seeing the change that comes over them)
    How does every single one of the start. By the rescuer offering tiny bites of food and trying to stroke and calm the dog.


    "O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him.
    .... The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the Lord shall not want any good thing."

     
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  12. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Why did God make the universe, the earth and sky above?
    Scripture gives the answer when it says that “God is Love”.
    Before God made the universe He worked out a master plan.
    He knew how everything would end before it all began.


    He made mankind so He could have an object for His love,
    But man was blind and did not see that it came from above.
    So God created evil as He had created night,
    So man could see the good in Him - In darkness we see light.


    He made the “blackboard” very black, with evil, sin, and woe.
    He made an adversary to be His cunning foe.
    He made the earth to be a “stage” to show the hosts above,
    By all of our experiences, His wisdom and His love.


    He locks up all in stubbornness to make His mercy clear;
    Lets Satan lure all men away so He can draw all near.
    He gives His only firstborn Son to die and save us all.
    Yet each in his own class we read; we’re blind until our call.


    You ask me why God made the earth, the glittering stars above?
    The Scriptures give the answer when they say that -
    ‘God is love”.



    ............~ By Ray Prinzing ~.......
     
  13. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I am reminded of :- 1 Pet.
    "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ..."

    I'm not sure which is " more precious than gold"...the actual trial, or our Faith ...I've never been quite sure about which. :)
     
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  14. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    "Behold, we count them happy which endure."


    -"We glory in tribulations: ... knowing that tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. "
    - "No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteous-ness unto them which are exercised thereby. "
    - "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. "
    -"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. "
    -"Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For when I am weak, then am I strong.
    "

    JAS. 5:11. Rom. 5:3 5. Heb. 12:11. -Jas. 1:2 4,12. II Cor. 12:9,10.
     
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  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Great verses there! Also: 'Chosen...in the furnace of affliction" (Isaiah 48.10).
     
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  16. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I forgot that one.. :)

    I missed you for a couple of days...or maybe it was me missing LOL
     
  17. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    We were away; got back yesterday.

    I think Philippians also is a great Epistle for working through the theme of of joy in suffering.
     
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  18. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    It’s possible we can feel discouraged by our past. The failure, weakness, and insecurity of yesterday can feel like shackles that bind us today, if we let them. But, we are not our past.
    We are not what has happened to us.
    We are not our bad habits or our struggles.
    We are not our fear, our insecurity, or someone else’s opinion of us.

    We are loved, accepted, and complete. So tell our past where it belongs—behind us! There is no shackle stronger than God's love for us.
    God wants us to stay free to follow Him and walk in His love.

    "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by the yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).
     
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