The Learner
Well-Known Member
When one is following a Jesus who is less than fully man and fully God, they are still in their sins.Other than YOU, what is it that's sending them to hell?
So, it would be God who is sending to Hell.
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When one is following a Jesus who is less than fully man and fully God, they are still in their sins.Other than YOU, what is it that's sending them to hell?
If you see the three dots for skipping text in a quote by the Watchtower it is often a quote out of context. Also, they published a perverted Bible. Their so-called translators were taken to Court by or in Scotland Yard and it was reviewed that thier head translator could not even read Elementary Hebrew that a First Grader would be able to Translate in Hebrew School.I'm not JW but their arguments are as plausible as any evangelical or Protestant.
The full quote is:“The overall results suggest that renal transplantation can be safely and efficaciously applied to most Jehovah’s Witnesses.” How Can Blood Save Your Life? p.16
Misleading comments are made such as that erythropoietin (EPO) can help a patient "form replacement red cells very quickly”, “three to four times faster than normal.” (How Can Blood Save Your Life? p.15)"Jehovah Witnesses had an increased susceptibility to rejection episodes. The cumulative percentage of incidence of primary rejection episodes was 77 percent at three months in Jehovah’s Witnesses versus 44 percent at 21 months in the matched control group. The consequence of early allograft dysfunction from rejection was particularly detrimental to Jehovah’s Witness who developed severe anemia (hemoglobin (Hgb)* 4.5 per cent) – two early deaths occurred in the subgroup with this combination. The overall results suggest that renal transplantation can be safely and efficaciously applied to most Jehovah Witness patients but those with anemia who undergo early rejection episodes are a high-risk group relative to other transplant patients."
This quote encapsulates the misleading way the Watchtower commonly includes quotes.“Of this important library of books, Phelps added: "Our ideas, our wisdom, our philosophy, our literature, our art, our ideals, come more from the Bible than from all other books put together. … I believe a knowledge of the Bible without a college course is more valuable than a college course without the Bible." Awake! 2000 Dec 22 p.3
In context we have a preacher recommending university, yet the Watchtower presents the quote in such manner to make it appear Phelps is downplaying the value of advanced education."I thoroughly believe in a university education for both men and women', said Dr. William Lyon Phelps of Yale University, 'but I believe a knowledge of the Bible without a college course is more valuable than a college course without the Bible. Every one who has a thorough knowledge of the Bible may truly be called educated, and no other learning or culture, no matter how extensive or elegant, can form a proper substitute.'" (Encyclopedia of Sermon Illustrations)
Source | Trinity Brochure | Full Quote |
Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethic, James Hastings, Trinity, p.461 | "At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian . . . It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the N[ew] T[estament] and other early Christian writings."-Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics. (ti pp. 6-7) | "At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian in the strictly ontological reference." |
The Triune God, Edward Fortman | "Jesuit Fortman states: "The New Testament writers . . . give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead."" (ti p.6) | "They give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. But they do give us an elemental trinitarianism, the data from which such a formal doctrine of the Triune God may be formulated. " |
The Minister and His Greek New Testament, Robertson, A. T. (Grand Rapids: Baker):As a rule the article is not used with the predicate noun even if the subject is definite. The article with one and not with the other means that the articular noun is the subject. Thus ό θεός άγάπε έστιν can only mean God is love, not love is God. So in Jo. 1:1 θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος the meaning has to be the Logos was God, not God was the Logos. If the article occurs with both predicate and subject they are interchangeable as in 1 Jo. 3:4, ἡ ἁμαρτία ἐστὶν ἡ ἀνομία sin is lawlessness and also lawlessness is sin (a needed lesson for our day). (279)
The Watchtower insists that if Jesus were to be God Almighty, the text would have to have said, in effect, “the word was the God.” Here, Robertson is saying that if the Greek were to say “the word was the God”, then it would say that the Father and Jesus are one and the same person with no distinction in any way whatsoever, a heresy taught by Sabelius and continued today by Oneness Pentecostals.A word should be said concerning the use and non-use of the article in John 1:1, where a narrow path is safely followed by the author. “The Word was God.” If both God and Word were articular, they would be coextensive and equally distributed and so interchangeable. But the separate personality of the Logos is affirmed by the construction used and Sabelianism is denied. If God were articular and Logos non-articular, the affirmation would be that God was Logos, but not that the Logos was God. As it is, John asserts that in the Pre-incarnate state the Logos was God, though the father was greater than the Son (John 14:28). (67-68)
206. Hence arises the general rule, that in the simple sentence Subject takes the article, the Predicate omits it. . . John i:1: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, the Word was God.
If θεός were indefinite, we would translate it “a god” (as is done in the New World Translation [NWT]). If so, the theological implication would be some form of polytheism, perhaps suggesting that the Word was merely a secondary god in a pantheon of deities.
The grammatical argument that the PN here is indefinite is weak. Often, those who argue for such a view (in particular, the translators of the NWT) do so on the sole basis that the term is anarthrous. Yet they are inconsistent, as R. H. Countess pointed out:
“In the New Testament there are 282 occurrences of the anarthrous θεός. At sixteen places NWT has either a god, god, gods, or godly. Sixteen out of 282 means that the translators were faithful to their translation principle only six percent of the time. …”
The first section of John-1:1–18-furnishes a lucid example of NWT arbitrary dogmatism. Θεός occurs eight times-verses 1, 2, 6, 12, 13, 18-and has the article only twice-verses 1, 2. Yet NWT six times translated “God,” once “a god,” and once “the god.”
If we expand the discussion to other anarthrous terms in the Johannine Prologue, we notice other inconsistencies in the NWT: It is interesting that the New World Translation renders θεός as “a god” on the simplistic grounds that it lacks the article. This is surely an insufficient basis. Following the “anarthrous = indefinite” principle would mean that ἀρχῇ should be “a beginning” (1:1, 2), ζωὴ should be “a life” (1:4), παρὰ θεοῦ should be “from a god” (1:6), Ἰωάννης should be “a John” (1:6), θεόν should be “a god” (1:18), etc. Yet none of these other anarthrous nouns is rendered with an indefinite article. One can only suspect strong theological bias in such a translation.
According to Dixon’s study, if θεός were indefinite in John 1:1, it would be the only anarthrous pre-verbal PN in John’s Gospel to be so. Although we have argued that this is somewhat overstated, the general point is valid: The indefinite notion is the most poorly attested for anarthrous pre-verbal predicate nominatives. Thus, grammatically such a meaning is improbable. Also, the context suggests that such is not likely, for the Word already existed in the beginning. Thus, contextually and grammatically, it is highly improbable that the Logos could be “a god” according to John (266-267)
“The use of the articular and anarthrous construction of θεὸς is highly instructive. A study of the uses of the term is given in Moulton and Geden’s Concordance convinces one that without the article θεὸς signifies divine essence, while with the article divine personality is chiefly in view.” (139-140)
* * *
“The use of θεὸς in Jn. 1:1 is a good example. πρὸς τὸν θεόν points to Christ’s fellowship with the person of the Father; θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος emphasizes Christ’s participation in the essence of the divine nature. The former clearly applies to personality, while the latter applies to character. This distinction is in line with the general force of the article. (140)
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(3) With the Subject in a Copulative Sentence. The article sometimes distinguishes the subject from the predicate in a copulative sentence. In Xenophon’s Anabasis, 1:4:6, έμπόριον δ ην τό χωρίον, and the place was a market, we have a parallel case to what we have in John 1:1, θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, and the word was deity. The article points out the subject in these examples. Neither was the place the only market, nor was the word all of God, as it would mean if the article were also used with θεὸς. As it stands, the other persons of the Trinity may be implied in θεὸς. In a convertible proposition, where the subject and predicate are regarded as interchangeable, both have the article (cf. 1 Cor. 15:56). If the subject is a proper name, or a personal demonstrative pronoun, it may be anarthrous while the predicate has the article (cf. Jn. 6:51; Ac. 4:11; 1 Jn. 4:15). (148-149)
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It is instructive to observe that the anarthrous noun occurs in many prepositional phrases. This is no mere accident, for there are no accidents in the growth of a language: each idiom has its reason. Nor is it because the noun is sufficiently definite without the article, which is true, as Greek nouns have an intrinsic definiteness. But that is not the reason for not using the article. A prepositional phrase usually implies some idea of quality or kind. Ἐν ἀρχῇ in Jn. 1:1 characterizes Christ as preexistent, thus defining the nature of his person. (150)
For the complete letter, see here.Your quotation from p.148 (3) was in a paragraph under the heading: “With the Subject in a Copulative sentence.” Two examples occur there to illustrate that “the article points out the subject in these examples.” But we made no statement in the paragraph about the predicate except that , “as it stands the other persons of the trinity may be implied in theos.” And isn’t that the opposite of what your translation “a god” infers? You quoted me out of context. On pages 139 and 140 (VI) in our grammar we stated: “without the article theos signifies divine essence . . . theos en ho logos emphasizes Christ’s participation in the essence of the divine nature.” Our interpretation is in agreement with that in NEB and the TEV: “What God was, the Word was”; and with that of Barclay: “The nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.
What verse says that?When one is following a Jesus who is less than fully man and fully God, they are still in their sins.
Clearly you never bothered to study the Outline of the Trinity I posted often enough.Well if that's the issue you're having there are answers to your accusations.
There are NO scriptures that say Jesus is 100% God. None that say that people who reject it are still in their sins. None that say the rejection of the Deity of Christ sends people to hell. IOW - The Trinity neither saves nor condemns.
The best answer is found in Hebrews 2:17.
Hebrews 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him TO BE MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE."
He was the Christ - the Messiah. He was divine in that he came from the Father and had an uncommon measure of the Fathers Holy Spirit. That's how he overcame. Even so, at times, he needed to be empowered and encouraged by an angel to overcome. (Luke 22) IF Jesus was also God, why would he need any empowerment at all from an angel?
Here's another big issue this all presents.
I will never believe Jesus was a fraud. I will never believe the cross was a hoax. Consider this...
Our bible says Jesus was tempted in every way and that he knew temptation. Want the verse?
Our bible also says God cannot be tempted and therefore cannot sin. Want the verse?
If Jesus was fully God that means he could not have been tempted to sin anyway. The only Trinitarian answer to this is the two natures or AKA - a hypostatic union. This makes the Word of God totally contradictory - makes Jesus a fraud because he never would have to overcome sin since he, as God, couldn't have been tempted to sin anyway - ultimately making the cross and the atonement for sin a complete hoax - think about it.