Have you ever been challenged to, say, call for a healing?

[VictoryinJesus]

All healing comes from God...right down to a finger cut! If this prosperity, healing thing were so powerful, why are our hospitals so full of the sick and dying---even devout Christians. Just hear all of this stuff about certain "healing" through people, have not known personally, anybody who has been miraculously healed of a terminal disease, never known anybody to grow back limbs, the blind (physically) are still blind...on and on.

Consider when Jesus said greater things you will do. And here is the beaten down hope of one that is told God promised physical healing and it never comes. But every day we see miracles greater than these, in a life restored into fellowship with God.

John 5:20-24
[20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. [21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them ; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. [22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Nancy]

it can be interpreted that way, ya, but a scan of the "illnesses" healed by Christ suggest that symbology is likely being used imo; i notice physical heart ailments are in absence, some other glaring omissions compared with contemporary ailments. Of course i guess physical maladies are all symbolic of a related spiritual problem anyway, even if it is hard to connect a genital deafness with the spiritual deafness of that individual, which is often attempted; imo that is not the right frame a lot of the time, the deafness possibly manifested from the parents not hearing, iow, even if this seems to be "punishing" the children for the parent's sins. Obv a crack-smoking pregnant mom will likely birth a crack-addicted child; same concept imo

Then there those who have not taken care of their Temple. Bad eating habits, gluttony, alcoholism, turning into cirrhosis, joyriding for fun getting into accidents<---All self induced sicknesses IMO. Are we not subject to this physical world while we are still i the flesh? Do we not pay the consequences of our actions? I dunno...I would never of course, limit The Creator of the Universe...haha-like anybody could! I just have come to a place where I believe only Spiritual healing was atoned for on the cross. Although...have thought many times that , yes-I CAN see God allowing

Consider when Jesus said greater things you will do. And here is the beaten down hope of one that is told God promised physical healing and it never comes. But every day we see miracles greater than these, in a life restored into fellowship with God.

John 5:20-24
[20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. [21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them ; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. [22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Consider when Jesus said greater things you will do. <---I have often wondered if this meant greater in scope, not "greater" in power.

And yes, humans are so blind to the very many blessings and miracles and, the best one is def. another soul saved for Christ!

 

[amadeus]

I agree...what do you think about: “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities” (1 Tim 5:23)
Could they not just heal him right then and there?

We, all of us, are stewards for God. Each of us have been put in charge of certain things belonging to God. Included in this are our bodies of flesh. We are not to commit suicide. We are not to purposely injure ourselves. We are rather to do the best we are able take care of our bodies keeping them healthy and strong according to our ability. I don't pretend to understand all of the meaning of that verse, but it does mean we need more than water to remain healthy. That is the body, but it still is must remain secondary to the things Jesus describes as first:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

What will be added to us? All that God sees that we need? Do we need natural food? Do we need warm clothing when there is ice and snow on the ground? But... we should not be defining what are needs are as absolutes. The definition, if there is one, is God's. The black and white rules were laid down for the natural children of Israel but they were unable to keep them. But, even for them there really more important things than a healthy living body of flesh...

 

[amadeus]

All healing comes from God...right down to a finger cut! If this prosperity, healing thing were so powerful, why are our hospitals so full of the sick and dying---even devout Christians. Just hear all of this stuff about certain "healing" through people, have not known personally, anybody who has been miraculously healed of a terminal disease, never known anybody to grow back limbs, the blind (physically) are still blind...on and on.

When I first moved to Oklahoma in 1987 my wife met a sister in the Lord. We became friends and began attending church service with her family. About 3-4 years ago she was in a car accident. She had some scrapes and bruises and bad bump on the head. They took an X-ray of her head to make certain there was no internal damage. The X-ray showed a large tumor in her brain. She had had some minor symptoms, but to that time she had put off having it checked. Because of the location they were unable to tell if it was cancerous without surgery. The surgery to remove it confirmed that it indeed was cancerous, but the surgery was successful. She healed and returned to work and family until this past year. Having had cancer they checked her regularly and a tumor had come back growing to the same large size in the same place as the other one. Because of the location, the only option for her was another surgery. They scheduled it, but as the time was approaching a brother who God had used before for physical healing was traveling the highway through Oklahoma. He felt the need to pray for her and did so immediately. Shortly thereafter our sister had one last X-ray before the new brain surgery and there was no tumor. It was completely gone. That happened early this year.

Of course this is just my 2nd hand telling of her testimony and some people will doubt it and/or will doubt that that brother's prayer made any difference at all... but I believe God.

 

[Willie T]

I don't doubt it a bit. I have seen far too many things of that nature.

 

[Nancy]

When I first moved to Oklahoma in 1987 my wife met a sister in the Lord. We became friends and began attending church service with her family. About 3-4 years ago she was in a car accident. She had some scrapes and bruises and bad bump on the head. They took an X-ray of her head to make certain there was no internal damage. The X-ray showed a large tumor in her brain. She had had some minor symptoms, but to that time she had put off having it checked. Because of the location they were unable to tell if it was cancerous without surgery. The surgery to remove it confirmed that it indeed was cancerous, but the surgery was successful. She healed and returned to work and family until this past year. Having had cancer they checked her regularly and a tumor had come back growing to the same large size in the same place as the other one. Because of the location, the only option for her was another surgery. They scheduled it, but as the time was approaching a brother who God had used before for physical healing was traveling the highway through Oklahoma. He felt the need to pray for her and did so immediately. Shortly thereafter our sister had one last X-ray before the new brain surgery and there was no tumor. It was completely gone. That happened early this year.

Of course this is just my 2nd hand telling of her testimony and some people will doubt it and/or will doubt that that brother's prayer made any difference at all... but I believe God.

I have no doubt that God healed her.

 

[7angels]

"i actually did bring a bat to meet Benny Hinn" Lol---Shortly after becoming saved, I was into all the televangelist...soaked it up! Even went to Toronto to see this guy. SOOOO glad God delivered me from that sham.
Personally-which means IMHO-I believe God can do what He wants but, I also no longer believe that the scripture "..healed by His stripes" means anything BUT Spiritual healing. I do not doubt that many 3rd world countries might see these things as their faith far exceeds ours IMO. No, we are in the physical, temporal world and we are to trust Him as we go THROUGH sickness, pain, trials, tribs. JMO

i don't know whether benny hinn is right or not. never listened to him but i have heard stories and the ones i heard were biblical. what concerns me though is that a person stops believing just because of another person. thereupon 3er world countries see so many miracles so not because they have greater faith than us but that they are thirsting after teethings of God. when was theist time a person was injured and went to God for healing instead of too a doctor? most major countries now rely on doctors and what they say instead of getting into the Word of God to see what it says. people prefer to believe doctors over the bible. there is nothing wrong with going to see a doctor but use what the doctor says to use your faith to stand against that problem the doctors told you about. it is funny that a doctor can prescribe medicine to get you to feel better that could take up to a month before you are better but when it comes to God's word people have trouble standing even for a day if they are not healed instantly.

God bless

 

[aspen]

I was working at a ticket office for a stadium during a Benny Hinn crusade. People in hospital beds were lined up for about two blocks, three days before tickets went on sale......this was Fresno CA in the middle of August. It was 118 outside during the day and it cooled off to about 95 at night. Because it was first come first served - people had to stay in line. Hinn had promised that first served would get the best seats, but of course, people in hospital beds were actually sick so they got the first rows in the back of the stadium behind the cameras and out of the way. Hinn did not supply water or outhouses for the 100s of people in line for three days.

 

[bbyrd009]

BTW-This does NOT stop me from praying passionately for the physical healing of friends and loved ones. And always followed by a- 'your will be done Lord'. My mom and dad and sister and many good friends still died. Mostly cancer.

if anyone is sick, they should go to the elders, who should lay hands on them, which we misinterpret and take literally, rather than colloquially as it is meant imo. The elder should be directing them to change, not helping them seek a miracle. Taking them in hand might be a better interp

edit; i guess "lay hands on" is the language used for the faithful in Mark, @ the "handling snakes" passage, so we'll just have to debate whether they are "elders" or not i guess lol

 

[Willie T]

if anyone is sick, they should go to the elders, who should lay hands on them, which we misinterpret and take literally, rather than colloquially as it is meant imo. The elder should be directing them to change, not helping them seek a miracle. Taking them in hand might be a better interp

Actually, I think the verse says to "call for the elders, and they should come and pray for them." I think bantering around mistaken readings is what gives rise to slowly beginning to believe that a particular verse said something it never did.

The "laying on of hands" possibly comes from combining those words spoken to Timothy..... which are also often misunderstood, since they only meant "not to select someone for a church office, in haste."

 

[Nancy]

i don't know whether benny hinn is right or not. never listened to him but i have heard stories and the ones i heard were biblical. what concerns me though is that a person stops believing just because of another person. thereupon 3er world countries see so many miracles so not because they have greater faith than us but that they are thirsting after teethings of God. when was theist time a person was injured and went to God for healing instead of too a doctor? most major countries now rely on doctors and what they say instead of getting into the Word of God to see what it says. people prefer to believe doctors over the bible. there is nothing wrong with going to see a doctor but use what the doctor says to use your faith to stand against that problem the doctors told you about. it is funny that a doctor can prescribe medicine to get you to feel better that could take up to a month before you are better but when it comes to God's word people have trouble standing even for a day if they are not healed instantly.

God bless

 

[Nancy]

"if they are not healed instantly." <--- Were not the healing in the bible instant and everlasting? Yes...I went though my Benny Hin type phases, for about 5 years, I even drove from Western Ny to Toronto to see this shyster. Until I prayed for discernment because I did not like others saying bad things about him and his kind. God has brought me a very long way and when my red flags go up---I now listen :)

 

[Nancy]

i don't know whether benny hinn is right or not. never listened to him but i have heard stories and the ones i heard were biblical. what concerns me though is that a person stops believing just because of another person. thereupon 3er world countries see so many miracles so not because they have greater faith than us but that they are thirsting after teethings of God. when was theist time a person was injured and went to God for healing instead of too a doctor? most major countries now rely on doctors and what they say instead of getting into the Word of God to see what it says. people prefer to believe doctors over the bible. there is nothing wrong with going to see a doctor but use what the doctor says to use your faith to stand against that problem the doctors told you about. it is funny that a doctor can prescribe medicine to get you to feel better that could take up to a month before you are better but when it comes to God's word people have trouble standing even for a day if they are not healed instantly.

God bless

BTW-just so you
know @7angels --The above post #307, where it says "Nancy said" that is not my post underneath..It is Byyrds's... :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually, I think the verse says to "call for the elders, and they should come and pray for them." I think bantering around mistaken readings is what gives rise to slowly beginning to believe that a particular verse said something it never did.

bam go with what seems right to you; "pray" meant "wish" when the KJV was written, and i'm pretty sure "lay hands" is in there somewhere, or a comparable passage. Not saying that a prayer made in faith wouldn't heal someone, but as we have heard plenty of witness to, it is the faith that heals most likely, and prolly not the prayer anyway.

i'm noting that comes with a caveat that likely gets dropped,
15The prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will restore him to health; if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect.

i don't know about you, but i have never seen a "healing" attempt accompanied by confession, not once yet, in 40+ years

The "laying on of hands" possibly comes from combining those words spoken to Timothy.

Mark too i guess,

18they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.

 

[7angels]

BTW-just so you
know @7angels --The above post #307, where it says "Nancy said" that is not my post underneath..It is Byyrds's... :)

sorry if i got it wrong but i was after what was in the post. i will look better next time. thanks for telling me :)

God bless

 

[7angels]

if anyone is sick, they should go to the elders, who should lay hands on them, which we misinterpret and take literally, rather than colloquially as it is meant imo. The elder should be directing them to change, not helping them seek a miracle. Taking them in hand might be a better interp

edit; i guess "lay hands on" is the language used for the faithful in Mark, @ the "handling snakes" passage, so we'll just have to debate whether they are "elders" or not i guess lol

first of all this passage is for christian babies. they don't have the faith of a matured christian so they must get help. it seems through that baby christians in many churches never seem to mature. they stay at the same place in God for 40 or 50 years. there should come point that christian grow up and quit relying on others for healing and do it themselves. it seems that in many churches even healing is pushed away from them. we are supposed to heal the sick, blind, broken hearted and ect. it is almost as if everyone thinks that since they have never done it or can't do that it must be impossible but i can tell you that just because you can not do it does not mean it is impossible for God but only that God can't use you to show His glory.

many people think the same as bbyrd009 that because they cannot understand a passage of scripture or cannot get it work as it says that they would rather change what scripture says to equate what they believe instead of seeking, chasing, knocking and ect until the door opens. when you change the meaning or wording isn't that a type of private interpretation? there are revelations from God but they do not change the meanings or wording but let you see the scripture in a different light.

God bless

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"if they are not healed instantly." <--- Were not the healing in the bible instant and everlasting? Yes...I went though my Benny Hin type phases, for about 5 years, I even drove from Western Ny to Toronto to see this shyster. Until I prayed for discernment because I did not like others saying bad things about him and his kind. God has brought me a very long way and when my red flags go up---I now listen :)

I also was swept up into the “God is going to heal you... IF your faith is strong enough” movement. Don’t get me wrong; I do believe God heals. But laying a heavy burden on someone ill and possibly dying, that they lack faith...I now see is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and a lie. I was really convinced too and listened to all the rich pastors of this movement. One of my favorites was Bill Johnson. It baffled me how a man speaking faith in God to heal, has to wear glasses. I wear them also and would pray for God to heal Bill Johnson’s eyesight and mine so people could see God was in it. I was convinced anything asked in faith, God would do. Soon after the retina in my left eye detached and I had to have surgery to repair it. Now I will always have a blob clouding that one eye. No doubt I would have been told by these pastors that Satan attacked me to destory my faith. Truth is, I learned to not be so vain.

 

[Triumph1300]

Of course this is just my 2nd hand telling of her testimony and some people will doubt it and/or will doubt that that brother's prayer made any difference at all... but I believe God.

Amen to that!

 

[Triumph1300]

Don’t get me wrong; I do believe God heals. But laying a heavy burden on someone ill and possibly dying, that they lack faith...I now see is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and a lie.

What about:

Your Faith Has Made You Whole?

 

[Nancy]

I also was swept up into the “God is going to heal you... IF your faith is strong enough” movement. Don’t get me wrong; I do believe God heals. But laying a heavy burden on someone ill and possibly dying, that they lack faith...I now see is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and a lie. I was really convinced too and listened to all the rich pastors of this movement. One of my favorites was Bill Johnson. It baffled me how a man speaking faith in God to heal, has to wear glasses. I wear them also and would pray for God to heal Bill Johnson’s eyesight and mine so people could see God was in it. I was convinced anything asked in faith, God would do. Soon after the retina in my left eye detached and I had to have surgery to repair it. Now I will always have a blob clouding that one eye. No doubt I would have been told by these pastors that Satan attacked me to destory my faith. Truth is, I learned to not be so vain.

"But laying a heavy burden on someone ill and possibly dying, that they lack faith...I now see is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and a lie. " <----Spot on...I just assumed I did not have enough faith . Your post could have been written by myself! It was a very confusing time in my walk...got physically pushed on my forehead to be "slain in the Spirit"-please. SMH. I am so grateful to be away from all that! Praise GOD!