The desolation's are determined by Christ the Prince. I see it as a continued condition of desolation where the people, the city, and the sanctuary are left desolate until Christ returns. Verse 26-27 also indicates that a temple will not be rebuilt like so many Christian's believe.Retrobyter said:
He sets himself up
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Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, BLACK SHEEP.
It's in the SAME VERSE that Yeshua` quoted in Matthew 23:39. Yeshua` quoted Psalm 118:26:
Psalm 118:26
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV
Here's the Hebrew (transliterated):
Mizmowr (Tehilah) 118:26
26 Baaruwkh habaa' b-sheem YHWH;
Beerakhnuwkhem mibeeyt YHWH.
PC Study Bible V5, Interlinear Bible
26 Baaruwkh = 26 Welcome
habaa' = the-Comer
b-sheem = in-name (authority)
YHWH; = of-YHWH;
Beerakhnuwkhem = We-have-welcomed-you
mibeeyt = from-house
YHWH. = of YHWH.
26 Welcome, the-Comer in-name (authority) of-YHWH;
We-have-welcomed-you from-house of YHWH.
That would be hard to do if there is no "House of YHWH," another name for the Temple.
And, don't think this was done on the first Palm Sunday, either! They were SUPPOSED to welcome Him, but FAILED to do so! It wasn't enough for the disciples to say it, nor was it enough for the children to say it! The LEADERS of the tribe of Y'hudah, the heads of clans within the tribe, were supposed to welcome Him! They did not.
Therefore, it was POSTPONED until a future date, and they haven't done it yet. Therefore, habeeyt YHWH must first be rebuilt. Otherwise, they cannot fulfill that Scripture which has yet to be fulfilled.
You're jumping to a different topic, but I can understand having something nag at your mind and needing to spout, voicing the silent question (in this case), "Where is the proof that there will be a rebuilt Temple?"BLACK SHEEP said:
It's in the SAME VERSE that Yeshua` quoted in Matthew 23:39. Yeshua` quoted Psalm 118:26:
Psalm 118:26
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV
Here's the Hebrew (transliterated):
Mizmowr (Tehilah) 118:26
26 Baaruwkh habaa' b-sheem YHWH;
Beerakhnuwkhem mibeeyt YHWH.
PC Study Bible V5, Interlinear Bible
26 Baaruwkh = 26 Welcome
habaa' = the-Comer
b-sheem = in-name (authority)
YHWH; = of-YHWH;
Beerakhnuwkhem = We-have-welcomed-you
mibeeyt = from-house
YHWH. = of YHWH.
26 Welcome, the-Comer in-name (authority) of-YHWH;
We-have-welcomed-you from-house of YHWH.
That would be hard to do if there is no "House of YHWH," another name for the Temple.
And, don't think this was done on the first Palm Sunday, either! They were SUPPOSED to welcome Him, but FAILED to do so! It wasn't enough for the disciples to say it, nor was it enough for the children to say it! The LEADERS of the tribe of Y'hudah, the heads of clans within the tribe, were supposed to welcome Him! They did not.
Therefore, it was POSTPONED until a future date, and they haven't done it yet. Therefore, habeeyt YHWH must first be rebuilt. Otherwise, they cannot fulfill that Scripture which has yet to be fulfilled.
What it means is that you will not perceive it unless and until you understand that YOU are the house of the Lord, (Reply#15).Retrobyter said:
Acts 7:47-51 KJV
47. But Solomon built him an house.
48. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49. Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50. Hath not my hand made all these things?
51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Isaiah 66:1-5 KJV
1. Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2. For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5. Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
John 14:21-23 KJV
21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, daq ol' buddy!
Whether the house of Yah is the people or the building, they could welcome Him from either one and fulfill the Scripture. However, it must be His FAMILY who welcomes Him. Fortunately, they ARE beginning to see that Yeshua` was and is INDEED the Messiah of God. So, as more and more of them become believers in Yeshua` haMashiach Elohiym, becoming part of the building not made with hands, this verse comes closer and closer to fulfillment.
Whether the Jews build another literal "house for God," we are assured that the Messiah will when He returns, for Yechezk'el's prophecy in Ezekiel 40-48 has not yet been fulfilled and must be fulfilled literally. I don't know ANY group of people, large or small, that have the description and the measurements that are given in those chapters!
Y'know, I really don't have a problem with that. See, I understand that the verse could be taken either way, but what good is a picture of a cake without the cake itself to eat? Oh, one might capture the moment when it looked the best it could be, but that's where the old adage, "You can't have your cake and eat it, too," came from!daq said:
Whether the house of Yah is the people or the building, they could welcome Him from either one and fulfill the Scripture. However, it must be His FAMILY who welcomes Him. Fortunately, they ARE beginning to see that Yeshua` was and is INDEED the Messiah of God. So, as more and more of them become believers in Yeshua` haMashiach Elohiym, becoming part of the building not made with hands, this verse comes closer and closer to fulfillment.
Whether the Jews build another literal "house for God," we are assured that the Messiah will when He returns, for Yechezk'el's prophecy in Ezekiel 40-48 has not yet been fulfilled and must be fulfilled literally. I don't know ANY group of people, large or small, that have the description and the measurements that are given in those chapters!
Greetings Axehead,Axehead said:
Here's a link to a site that is dedicated to the rebuilding of the temple:
SHALOM AND WELCOME to the official website of the TEMPLE INSTITUTE in Jerusalem, Israel. The Temple Institute is dedicated to every aspect of the Holy Temple of Jerusalem, and the central role it fulfilled, and will once again fulfill, in the spiritual wellbeing of both Israel and all the nations of the world. The Institute's work touches upon the history of the Holy Temple's past, an understanding of the present day, and the Divine promise of Israel's future. The Institute's activities include education, research, and development. The Temple Institute's ultimate goal is to see Israel rebuild the Holy Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem, in accord with the Biblical commandments. We invite you to read our Statement of Principles. To learn more about the Temple Institute, click here.
http://www.templeinstitute.org
Blueprints and Computer Animation of the Sanhedrin Chamber of Hewn Stone
The Temple Institute presents for the first time, complete and highly detailed blueprints of the Sanhedrin Assembly Hall, the Chamber of Hewn Stone, part of the Holy Temple complex itself. These plans, drawn up by a top Israeli architectural firm hired by the Temple Institute, incorporate modern technological innovation while remaining true to the specific requirements of the Sanhedrin. These plans represent the first stage in the drawing up of comprehensive architectural plans for the entire Holy Temple complex.This video is based on these plans.
See our latest video: The Holy Temple - Constructing the Golden Lamp of Queen Helena http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr0eLR...
Visit us: http://www.templeinstitute.org/
Become a fan on facebook: http://tinyurl.com/nmhhq8
Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TempleInstitute
More videos available on http://universaltorah.com
Weekly Newsletter: http://is.gd/4BUvi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnckQrgO7s
Here's a link to the extensive array of Sacred Vessels and Vestments they have ready for the temple:
http://www.templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery_a1.htm
Perhaps you should walk another thousand cubits further into the River? And when it reaches the neck and cannot be crossed then follow him withersoever he goes! What matters most concerning cubits, measurements, and numbers, is what the Scripture tells us they mean rather than what we imagine or assume they mean; this is even more critical with the Prophets because they are expounding Torah. How many ox-head-rulers of thousands until the qodesh is set right? Or is it simply thousands?Retrobyter said:
Matthew 2:6 KJV
6. And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes [GSN#2232 hegemon] of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Micah 5:2 KJV
2. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands [HSN#0505 'eleph] of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Until how long shall be the vision of the Tamiyd, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the qodesh and the tsaba' hashamayim to be trampled under foot? Until an evening-morning of two ox-head-rulers of thousands, three (little-horn-rulers) of hundreds, then shall be set right the qodesh!
Brethren in Christ Jesus, the above words in bold are an example of how dangerous the Jew's doctrines can be. He is saying a lot of that with a rebuilt Jewish temple the Orthodox 'unbelieving' Jews intend to build today in mind!Retrobyter said:
Someone please... tell me; since WHEN have the Orthodox unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem who intend to build another temple ever believed that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ!?!?
All that shows is what I spoke to Retrobyter about wanting to 'ride the fence' between Orthodox Judaism and belief on Christ Jesus. One CANNOT do both. One cannot hold to one without being true to the other. One cannot worship both God and mammon like Jesus said.
Be careful brethren, because the Jew's propaganda to get Christians to support the building of another temple in Jerusalem today has already begun! If you support it, then you most likely will go there to worship in it when they invite... you! Big problem with that is the Antichrist is coming first there to sit in it as our Lord Jesus Christ! The pseudo-Christ is who THEY will be preparing you for, because the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" well know who they worship, and it is not our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus of Nazareth!
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, veteran.
I liked your statement, "One cannot hold to one without being true to the other." THAT statement is right on the money! I'm sure YOU meant it reversed, but ironically, God turned your words around! And, here, you're EXACTLY correct! One cannot hold to Christ without being true to the Jewish heritage behind Christianity!
Veteran, you need to understand that the Jews and the Isra'elis (the Isra'elites, if you prefer) are VERY DEAR to the heart of God! It truly doesn't matter that they are enemies for the gospel's sake; they are still beloved for the PATRIARCHS' SAKES! And, God can turn ANYTHING around! HE makes "all things work together for them who love God, for them who are the CALLED according to His purpose!"
Romans 8:27-28
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
KJV
Romans 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV
God DOES NOT RENIG ON HIS PROMISES!!! Get it through your head! YES, they have a major problem with believing in Yeshua` as their Messiah! Granted, they may build the Temple for all the wrong reasons! THAT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT GETS THE JOB DONE!!! Why not? Because they only have to FULFILL THE PROPHECY to have the Messiah return to them, regardless the motivation!
And, to top it off, they ARE beginning to recognize Yeshua` is indeed the Messiah of God, TO SPITE THE LACK OF THOSE GENTILE BELIEVERS WHO CALL THEMSELVES "CHRISTIANS" TELLING THEM ABOUT THEIR OWN MESSIAH! The Messianic congregations of Jews and Gentiles worshipping God together have been GREATLY instrumental in turning them to their Messiah by the thousands!
So, like it or lump it, Jews and other Isra'elites ARE coming to know the Messiah Yeshua` as their Redeemer! And, you'd better start LIKING it! God doesn't take too kindly to the vilification of His people!
Oh, and for the record, "saints" or "holy ones" referred to the Isra'elites FIRST, LONG BEFORE the Gentiles were grafted in! I'm not denying that believers who call themselves "Christian" and are mostly from Gentile origins are also "saints," but don't think for a moment that "saints" in the Scriptures do not refer to Isra'el! All "holy" means is "set apart" or "singled out," and they have been such a people FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!
I liked your statement, "One cannot hold to one without being true to the other." THAT statement is right on the money! I'm sure YOU meant it reversed, but ironically, God turned your words around! And, here, you're EXACTLY correct! One cannot hold to Christ without being true to the Jewish heritage behind Christianity!
Veteran, you need to understand that the Jews and the Isra'elis (the Isra'elites, if you prefer) are VERY DEAR to the heart of God! It truly doesn't matter that they are enemies for the gospel's sake; they are still beloved for the PATRIARCHS' SAKES! And, God can turn ANYTHING around! HE makes "all things work together for them who love God, for them who are the CALLED according to His purpose!"
Romans 8:27-28
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
KJV
Romans 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV
God DOES NOT RENIG ON HIS PROMISES!!! Get it through your head! YES, they have a major problem with believing in Yeshua` as their Messiah! Granted, they may build the Temple for all the wrong reasons! THAT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT GETS THE JOB DONE!!! Why not? Because they only have to FULFILL THE PROPHECY to have the Messiah return to them, regardless the motivation!
And, to top it off, they ARE beginning to recognize Yeshua` is indeed the Messiah of God, TO SPITE THE LACK OF THOSE GENTILE BELIEVERS WHO CALL THEMSELVES "CHRISTIANS" TELLING THEM ABOUT THEIR OWN MESSIAH! The Messianic congregations of Jews and Gentiles worshipping God together have been GREATLY instrumental in turning them to their Messiah by the thousands!
So, like it or lump it, Jews and other Isra'elites ARE coming to know the Messiah Yeshua` as their Redeemer! And, you'd better start LIKING it! God doesn't take too kindly to the vilification of His people!
Oh, and for the record, "saints" or "holy ones" referred to the Isra'elites FIRST, LONG BEFORE the Gentiles were grafted in! I'm not denying that believers who call themselves "Christian" and are mostly from Gentile origins are also "saints," but don't think for a moment that "saints" in the Scriptures do not refer to Isra'el! All "holy" means is "set apart" or "singled out," and they have been such a people FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!
All one need do is go back and study the Old Testament histories of HOW the majority of Israelites following paganism, worshipping pagan gods that are no gods, and then read about God's judgments He placed upon them. Then you will have a valid picture of TODAY also!Retrobyter said:
Not only that, but God's servants today that are given to know what's happening also know about His prophecies that this kind of rebelliousness by His chosen people is going to happen once again for the very END!
The "tares" which are not of God's people have crept in among the Jews, and it is they who are running things and who the majority of Jews are listening to.
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