"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[CharismaticLady]

No your experience is you have deceived yourself into thinking you never commit sin anymore.

Should I call Jesus a liar and that the truth does not set me free? Read John 8:32-34. Are you saying I am still a slave to sin? Slaves are not headed for the Father's house for eternity.

So make up your mind. Sinner? Or free from sin? Which does Jesus make us?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<(for every sin is willful, we don't commit sins by accident) >>>

I disagree on this. There are intentional sins and there are unintentional sins.

Well pray tell why not tell us some of these unintentional sins.

Can one unintentionally steal?
Can one unintentionally kill?
does one unintentionally commit adultery?
does one unintentionally covet?
does one unintentionally blaspheme?
does one unintentionally not love their wife as Christ loved the church?
Does on unintentionally not submit to their husbands?
Does one unintentionally not love the brethren?
Does one unintentionally not help the poor when it is within you to do so?

Sin is first and foremost a permission in the hearet.

If I put a pen in my pocket that wasn't mine and forgot it was there and took it home. That is not theft if I return it when possible. If I choose to keep it after- that is theft.

Scriptures speaks of unintentional sins.

Leviticus 4:2
“Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them,

Deuteronomy 19:4
“And this is the case of the manslayer who flees there, that he may live: Whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past—

Hebrews 9:7
But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance;

Tong
R2818

 

[CharismaticLady]

What I see in all of those scriptures is about enduring tribulation and persecution, about being true to Jesus Christ. It’s not about eternal security, much less about eternal security having conditions.

What I was asking is reference scriptures that speaks of eternal security and it having the condition of enduring to the end.

Tong
R2817

Why are there all the warnings in the epistles if it doesn't matter what we do???

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What I see in all of those scriptures is about enduring tribulation and persecution, about being true to Jesus Christ. It’s not about eternal security, much less about eternal security having conditions.

What I was asking is reference scriptures that speaks of eternal security and it having the condition of enduring to the end.

Why are there all the warnings in the epistles if it doesn't matter what we do???

It does matter what we do. It is not only what we say that testifies and preach God and Jesus Christ, but what we do. Warnings are given if there is need for them. The apostles knew of false teachers, false brethren, false prophets, antiChrist, hypocrites who will try to deceive the church, for selfish and worldly gains. They also knew that they will be facing persecutions, sufferings, tribulations, death, because of Jesus Christ. And if you’ll notice, there had been many problems that the church were having during those times. What do we expect from the apostles and those who oversees the church, but to give warnings, reminders, encouragement and exhortation to them? There really are a lot of factors to consider.

Tong
R2819

 

[Zachary]

Dis is just another one of my favorite passages ...

Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us (BACs) free,
and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
… You (BACs) have become estranged from Christ
… you (BACs) have fallen from grace.”

To be estranged from Christ and fallen from grace
means you have lost your salvation.

 

[Zachary]

The CL: <<<Eternal security has conditions = enduring to the end.>>>

Please give reference scriptures.
What endurance is that? What end?

There are about 10 NT verses which warn that ...
we must ENDURE in the faith, etc. (until the end of life)
to be given eternal life.

This even ties in with da foist tree soils,
which caused their corresponding seeds
to fall away and end up dying.
Da last soil produced good fruit.

 

[justbyfaith]

So I would expect that the scriptures you cited addresses my post in the quote and speaks of eternal security and its conditions.

I was addressing your reference to enduring to the end in your post.

I personally believe that if someone has a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14), that it is because they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and therefore have an everlasting faith; and therefore they have everlasting life (John 6:47).

No your experience is you have deceived yourself into thinking you never commit sin anymore.

It is possible for a person to not commit sin any more (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT), Philippians 3:15).

But of course, if someone is saying that they are not committing sins any more, that might be a sign that they have pride; which is in fact a sin.

Usually if someone has been perfected, they are unaware of the fact that they have been perfected (Job 9:21 (kjv), Isaiah 42:19 (kjv), John 9:41 (kjv)).

If I put a pen in my pocket that wasn't mine and forgot it was there and took it home. That is not theft if I return it when possible. If I choose to keep it after- that is theft.

A kleptomaniac might steal a pen from work and it would be a theft even if they return it later. But it would be identified as an unintentional sin.

I have terrible arthritis. I have trouble typing. I rely on spell check. If a word does not get underlined, I let it pass. If you wish to hold that against me- that is your problem not mine. I will stand before GOD with a clean conscinece Oh might gnat strainer!

That makes good sense, actually. Now that I understand your reasons, I excuse you in my thoughts.

You should consider that others also might have been making the same judgment; and so you should be thankful that I called you on this so that you could explain yourself. You will be justified in the eyes of many because of this, as concerning what might have been judged as a sin against the Lord.

But have you ceased from the practice of sins?

I do not consider myself to have apprehended the state of entire sanctification (Philippians 3:12-14); and therefore I am a candidate for perfection (Philippians 3:15).

You are not going to get from me any other answer than that.

 

[Zachary]

Sorry, error!

 

[Zachary]

I wish you knew the Savior instead of holding onto these lies.

I wish you knew what the NT says instead of holding onto your false doctrines.
There are many dire warnings in the epistles which were written to believers.
And there are many dire warnings in the Gospels which Jesus said to everyone.
Apparently, you don't see any of them!
I wish you weren't spiritually blind.

It might help you ...
if you realized that true saving faith requires ACTION on our part.
We're in a covenant with God ... and we have our part to play.
The NT repeatedly says so!

 

[Ezra]

May I ask which denomination you are, if any?

born again forgiven ..i dont need a name tag

 

[Ezra]

Then say what you mean. You said instead, "The difference is the blood of Jesus has been applied to my account and to the unbeliever it has not been! The very righteousness that is Jesus has been imputed to my account." Applied means covers, not taken away.

What does sanctified mean to you and your sin? If your sin has been taken away, then how are we being sanctified further? It's done.

justification is the act of being cleansed sanctified is the result lifestyle to live .but both work together

 

[Ezra]

May I ask which denomination you are, if any?

does it matter ?

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are still a "sinner" (1 Timothy 1:15) in that we have sin dwelling in our mortal flesh (Romans 7:18). If you deny this, the scripture says that you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8); no matter how you might try to interpret that scripture differently using tricks of interpretation to come up with a doctrine that actually denies the plain teaching of that scripture (1 John 1:8).

I'm very surprised and hurt to receive this tone of post from you. I thought we were on the same page. It is not "trickery" but historical truth that Hebrew writers use Semitic writing styles.But if you want to believe that Jesus is a liar and did not take away our sin as He claimed, then maybe that is your experience. Mine is that when I was filled with the Holy Spirit all desire to sin was gone. My experience is that Jesus was telling the absolute truth. However before Christ I was addicted to sin and certainly a slave to sin. Just like 1 John 1:8. If I had said I wasn't I would have been a liar. But I confessed my sin and was cleansed completely 1 John 1:8-9, becoming born again, the way they are meant to be read.

 

[Tong2020]

Dis is just another one of my favorite passages ...

Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us (BACs) free,
and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
… You (BACs) have become estranged from Christ
… you (BACs) have fallen from grace.”

To be estranged from Christ and fallen from grace
means you have lost your salvation.

As pointed out in one of my reply post under this thread, there are so called Christians and there are true Christians.

Warnings are given if there is need for them. The apostles knew of false teachers, false brethren, false prophets, antiChrist, hypocrites who will try to deceive the church, for selfish and worldly gains. They also knew that they will be facing persecutions, sufferings, tribulations, death, because of Jesus Christ. And if you’ll notice, there had been many problems that the church were having during those times. What do we expect from the apostles and those who oversees the church, but to give warnings, reminders, encouragement and exhortation to them? There really are a lot of factors to consider.

Now, there were Judaizers among the church and falsely teaches that circumcision is required of the church to be saved. And that poses a problem within the church. So Paul wrote as he address that problem.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

It is not surprising that the reader may make of that passage as though it teaches that the true Christian could lose salvation. But that, he wants them to know that circumcision nor uncircumcision avails to anything. That if one would heed to the false teaching, that it means they are then estranged from Christ.

What does that mean? That while they are said to believe in Jesus Christ, and are numbered among the church, they are actually estranged from Christ and so are not true Christians.

And this brings me back to my argument in the other thread, and I quote:

”Will a true Christian reject Jesus Christ, Him whom he said he had sincerely and truly received, accepted, and believed in his heart? If one does reject Jesus after accepting him, what does that make him out be? A liar? A hypocrite? A false believer? What?”

Tong
R2820

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm very surprised and hurt to receive this tone of post from you. I thought we were on the same page. It is not "trickery" but historical truth that Hebrew writers use Semitic writing styles.But if you want to believe that Jesus is a liar and did not take away our sin as He claimed, then maybe that is your experience. Mine is that when I was filled with the Holy Spirit all desire to sin was gone. My experience is that Jesus was telling the absolute truth. However before Christ I was addicted to sin and certainly a slave to sin. Just like 1 John 1:8. If I had said I wasn't I would have been a liar. But I confessed my sin and was cleansed completely 1 John 1:8-9, becoming born again, the way they are meant to be read.

I find that my experience is that it is just as if sin were eradicated from me; however scripture tells me that this is not the case but that rather it is rendered dead within me if I am sanctified wholly.

Either one would have the same effect...that I desire not to sin in my life.

It really is semantics that we are talking about here, as a matter of fact. The biblical doctrine is that we have indwelling sin; but that the element of sin within the sanctified believer is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry, error!

Just what are you referring to?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The CL: <<<Eternal security has conditions = enduring to the end.>>>

Please give reference scriptures.
What endurance is that? What end?

There are about 10 NT verses which warn that ...
we must ENDURE in the faith, etc. (until the end of life)
to be given eternal life.

This even ties in with da foist tree soils,
which caused their corresponding seeds
to fall away and end up dying.
Da last soil produced good fruit.

Please cite specific scriptures.

Tong
R2821

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So I would expect that the scriptures you cited addresses my post in the quote and speaks of eternal security and its conditions.

I was addressing your reference to enduring to the end in your post.

I personally believe that if someone has a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14), that it is because they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and therefore have an everlasting faith; and therefore they have everlasting life (John 6:47).

Oh, then you can cite no scriptures that speaks of eternal security with the conditions that goes with it? Ok that settles that then.

Tong
R2822

 

[CharismaticLady]

I find that my experience is that it is just as if sin were eradicated from me; however scripture tells me that this is not the case but that rather it is rendered dead within me if I am sanctified wholly.

Either one would have the same effect...that I desire not to sin in my life.

It really is semantics that we are talking about here, as a matter of fact. The biblical doctrine is that we have indwelling sin; but that the element of sin within the sanctified believer is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Right. But another verse that I have discovered in other parts like Acts 2:38 is that it is rendered dead because of receiving the Holy Spirit that makes us born again. This goes along with 1 John 1:9, so that would be the initial event of becoming born again, and is not like what is taught of sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, ad infinitum. That was not my "experience" either. It was so powerful the first time, I literally was a new person with a very sensitive conscience that I followed, and going against my conscience was unthinkable. 1 John 3:21

 

[HIM]

Oh, then you can cite no scriptures that speaks of eternal security with the conditions that goes with it? Ok that settles that then.

Tong
R2822

Paul thought He could lose his salvation.
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.