Heaven ?

[Helen]

When a sinner repents, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God. Your departed loved ones, who knew Jesus Christ while alive on earth, are the ones who understand the joy of sins forgiven and salvation of the soul. Angels don't understand what being born-again is.

Luke 15:10, In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”



Not anymore, lol. Unless of course, you disagree.

Good points..and made me think of Paul's "Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
I guess when our turn comes...we won't care...as long as to us it seems instant.

I've had more than one dream about 'heaven'...NOT that I ever felt it was the heaven of heavens...but they were all very lovely dreams. And those who "go and come back"...have described lovely experiences.

Maybe in God's goodness He lets us see whatever we expect ( hope) to see .....either way...like the Garden.. " It will be good"...because God IS.

 

[amadeus]

Heaven is Heaven, hell is hell, not teh same place...

Not the same place? Remembering that our God is a consuming fire look at these verses:

"Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:21-22

"And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them." Dan 3:27

Same fire, but opposite results... Who was consumed by God's fire and who was released by God's fire?

 

[twinc]

Not the same place? Remembering that our God is a consuming fire look at these verses:

"Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:21-22

"And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them." Dan 3:27

Same fire, but opposite results... Who was consumed by God's fire and who was released by God's fire?

it seems the Jews and Judaism had no real concept or acceptance of an after life - imho - twinc

 

[twinc]

Not the same place? Remembering that our God is a consuming fire look at these verses:

"Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:21-22

"And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them." Dan 3:27

Same fire, but opposite results... Who was consumed by God's fire and who was released by God's fire?

it seems it is the same place to me and must be for can anything be outside the mind - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

Not the same place?

How can they be, death is complete and utter separation from God, how can one be separated from God and in Heaven???

 

[twinc]

Then where are they all now? All those who have gone ahead?
I used to believe that they are all dead and “asleep” ...but too much stuff shows otherwise...
The parables of Jesus...Elijah and Moses on the mount...
Plus too many have had near death...or actual death experiences...far too many to just discount their being places where all the souls are gathered.

‘This one of those unanswered great mysteries.

how about a monkey heaven = hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil - twinc

 

[twinc]

how about a monkey heaven = hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil - twinc

will we have new clothes on when we are finally born again or moth eaten ones - twinc

 

[Stranger]

Heaven and Hell, or the Lake of Fire, are not the same place. They are both full of the righteousness of God. One experiences the righteous judgement of God. One experiences the righteous blessing of God.

But they are different places. Just like in Hades, or Hell, where the rich man and Lazarus went. (Luke 16:26) "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

When a sinner repents, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God.
Your departed loved ones, who knew Jesus Christ while alive on earth, are the ones who understand the joy of sins forgiven and salvation of the soul.

arg. Dunno if i am just being argumentative or what here, but don't these two sentences even contradict each other? The dead know nothing. Alive on earth, are the ones who understand the joy of sins forgiven and salvation of the soul, imo

 

[bbyrd009]

God created the heavens and the earth and prior to the fall

i'd sure like to see this "fall" demonstrated from Scripture; haven't found it yet!

 

[bbyrd009]

Good points..and made me think of Paul's "Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
I guess when our turn comes...we won't care...as long as to us it seems instant.

as long as you have reconciled that with "the dead know nothing," i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe in God's goodness He lets us see whatever we expect ( hope) to see .....either way...like the Garden.. " It will be good"...because God IS.

can't help but note how the Garden is in Erets, though

remember what you thought the world would be like, when you were a little kid?

 

[bbyrd009]

it seems the Jews and Judaism had no real concept or acceptance of an after life - imho - twinc

um, even the Pharisees? are they still repped today? i don't even know

 

[bbyrd009]

How can they be, death is complete and utter separation from God, how can one be separated from God and in Heaven???

well, we have two defs of "death" to deal with too tho. the physical one is supposed to be irrelevant in some way, even if we consider it highly relevant. dunno there, either

 

[bbyrd009]

how about a monkey heaven = hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil - twinc

nice lol. i'll be workin this in to the Evo thread!

 

[bbyrd009]

between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

course you have to ignore the gulf between the two of us, right now, to get there i guess

 

[amadeus]

it seems the Jews and Judaism had no real concept or acceptance of an after life - imho - twinc

I am no student of Jewish beliefs and customs outside of scripture, but consider these verses:

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:" Job 19:25-26

 

[amadeus]

How can they be, death is complete and utter separation from God, how can one be separated from God and in Heaven???

Ah, if we were speaking of a physical place perhaps, but are we?

 

[amadeus]

um, even the Pharisees? are they still repped today? i don't even know

"But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both." Acts 23:6-8

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Amadeus...you find these obscure verses! Obscure to me anyway.
Thank you. You know just which one to post.