Hebrews 6:1-6

[Godssrvr]

Hebrews was written to Hebrew believers.

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 1-6 is widely used by false teachers to prove salvation can be lost. This is mostly due to a misunderstanding of "repentance" as it applies to justification. Repentance, as used in the context of this passage, is toward justification. It is a "change of mind" concerning a persons faith toward God. They no longer trust idols or works or anything that is contrary to the truth of the gospel of Christ. Once they have had this change of thinking concerning their trust for salvation, they have been justified by faith, and are saved at that moment through the Holy Spirit spiritually baptizing that person into Christ. (Romans 6:3)

It's also due to a misunderstanding of who the epistle of Hebrews was written to and why. It was written to Hebrew believers for the purpose of moving on in maturity of the faith. This is easily seen if we look back into chapter 5 verses 12-13....

Hebrews 5:12-13
"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."

Hebrews 6:1
"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"

The "dead works" mentioned in verse 1 are works we consider righteous to gain favor with God. They are "dead", because they are worthless (Isaiah 64:6).

Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

This is describing believers. Immature believers, but believers just the same. Remember this epistle was written to Christians. The writer is teaching them once they have believed the gospel they're saved, and should move on into maturity leaving the "foundation of repentance from dead works". Once a believer has been justified through faith in the gospel, they are saved that moment and the foundation of Christ is made eternally sure. A believer is only justified once, therefore in the context of justification, there can only be one repentance toward justification. If a believer should be deceived of the truth (as many of these Hebrews were), they cannot "repent" again toward justification since they have already been justified.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

The foundation of our faith is Christ, and no other foundation can be laid in addition to that which is laid. Whether we build on top of the foundation with hay and stubble or gold and silver, the foundation is always true and secure in Christ. If our works are burned, we are still saved.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This is my understanding of scripture but you are welcome to your own. I always view scripture through the lens of grace, which is how we're saved in the first place. It can never be through "dead" works, but only through faith. Our works are dead because they originate in us and not with God, since we first must be made a "new creation in Christ" before we have any works of righteousness.

 

[forrestcupp]

I replied to your shorter post in the other thread. And I'm not here to argue and debate. I love all my brothers and sisters, even when I disagree with them. I'm grateful most of all that you and I are saved, and we're in the same family of God.

So rather than criticize you or anything, let me just come at this as presenting my view on this. First off, I completely agree that this passage is written to Christians. Another guy said it was written to people in Jesus' time who experienced the miraculous, but never made a commitment, and in the other thread, I showed why I believe that isn't correct. This is definitely written to Christians, and I totally agree with you there.

But I don't really agree with the rest of your assessment of Heb. 4:4-6. The context of this whole passage is not an encouragement, but a warning. He's basically telling them it's time to get off their backsides and think about growing in Christ. He goes on after verse 6 and warns them about being slothful. This passage is a warning and admonition, not an encouragement that they are eternally secure.

Next, let's look at exactly what he is saying in verses 4-6. He is most definitely not saying that it's impossible for those who have been enlightened to fall away. What he's saying is that if you have been enlightened and fall away (implying it's possible), then it's impossible to come to repentance again. Obviously he's not talking just about slipping up and sinning. This is a much more serious matter than people giving into their flesh and sinning. The Bible is full of teachings about confession, repentance, and forgiveness.

But if you'll just try to put your bias aside and read this passage in context, it's a warning to the people he's writing to that it's time to grow up because there are possible consequences.

 

[Godssrvr]

But if you'll just try to put your bias aside and read this passage in context, it's a warning to the people he's writing to that it's time to grow up because there are possible consequences.

Thanks for your comment. I understand there will be some who disagree. You are correct that there are consequences, the bible even tells us what they are. One of the passages I used in the post but you seem to not recognize it. 1 Corinthians 3 is teaching there are rewards lost, but never our foundation of Christ which is how we were saved. Another example would be in 2 Peter 1. I'm not sure why you call me "biased" I just believe what scripture says. Please read the scripture passages below with the comments.

2 Peter 1:2-10
"Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

"But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."

Do you see that the one that lacks these things, "knowledge, faith, virtue, patience, temperance, godliness ect... have forgotten they were "purged" from their old sins? Peter is speaking of a believer who has fallen from the grace he once knew. It's the same as Paul was teaching in Galatians 5 as he was speaking to believers as well. The consequences are a lack of fruit of the Spirit that could be experienced by the believer, not salvation. When we have trusted in Christ alone, we are born of God and "quickened" together with Christ. We have been made "one spirit" with Christ Jesus (1 Cor. 6:17). It is because we are one with Him that salvation cannot be lost! We are "sanctified" through the body of Christ. God has set us apart from the world "in Christ". Christ is our salvation, through His body.

Hebrews 10:14
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[forrestcupp]

I have some thoughts on this, but I don't have time to flesh it all out right now. I have a meeting to get to right now. I'll definitely come back and reply when I get a chance later, though.

And just a reminder, just because we might disagree about scriptural interpretation doesn't mean we aren't still brothers who can love each other.

 

[Godssrvr]

I don't have time to flesh it all out right now

However you decide to "flesh this out" can't change clear scripture. I believe you are the one that's "biased", because there is no way you can deny what the last three passages used unless you are. My only reason for being here is from love. It's not about being "right". It's to show those who have the ears to hear and eyes to see the truth of the Word. If you plan to teach salvation can be lost, I fear you have likely never understood the gospel of grace. I don't plan to debate this ever with anyone, but I will attempt to show the truth of the gospel to those who are willing to hear it. God said His gift to us was eternal, who wants to deny His Word? His only stipulation for receiving His gift was to trust in Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 3:24-28
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[bbyrd009]

However you decide to "flesh this out" can't change clear scripture.

"clear Scripture" lol, good one

 

[forrestcupp]

Ok, let's talk about your passage in 1 Cor. 3. It's talking about people building upon the foundation. What is the foundation? Ephesians 2:20 says the foundation is the apostles and prophets, with Jesus being the chief cornerstone that everything else lines up to. That foundation will never be burnt up. But 1 Cor. 3 talks about people building upon that foundation, and the statement in verse 12 is conditional, with the word "if."

What is that passage talking about? It's talking about the works of people who are saved. It's not saying that we're saved by our works, but it does talk about the works that we do after we're saved. How will Christians be judged at the end? It will be based on how their works hold up. But whether your works as a Christian hold up or not is not what determines your salvation. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord, Who paid the price on our behalf. Because of Him, we don't have to pay the wages of sin, but we get the free gift of eternal life. That's the whole point of 1 Cor. 3. There are consequences for building with works that don't hold up, and there is honor from building with works that are eternal, but that's not what judges your salvation. But there is nothing in that passage that says it's impossible for someone to choose to stop building at all on that foundation and go seek out a different foundation to build on.

As for 2 Pet. 1, again, the whole thing is conditional. It says the word "if" multiple times. V. 7 If these things be in you, you won't be barren or unfruitful. V. 10 If you do these things, you will not fall. That passage seems more like a good case against eternal security. V. 9 says that he has forgotten his purification from his former sins, but nowhere does it say that he is still purified from his sins.

As for the rest, I completely agree that being one with Christ means that you are eternally secure. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that once you are saved, you are from then on incapable of choosing to not be one with Christ. Like I said before, it takes a lot more than just slipping up, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for those who have been partakers of the Holy Spirit to fall away.

Just look at Jesus' parable of the sower. There are two instances where the seed (Word) is actually taken into the soil, new life sprouts, and it dies off. The stony ground is where the plant doesn't have deep roots, it gets scorched, and dies. The thorny ground is where the cares of the world chokes the plant out. But the point is, in both cases, the Word was received, and there was new life. How could that represent anything but salvation? The beauty of it is that Jesus is willing to give anyone a chance, even ones who end up not making it.

One big problem I have with eternal security is this: many people hear that teaching and come to the conclusion, "I was saved, and I can't lose my salvation. So I can live however I want and be eternally secure." And then they live like hell. Maybe that's not how your belief system actually works, but plenty of people misinterpret it to mean that, and that's a real problem.

 

[Godssrvr]

But there is nothing in that passage that says it's impossible for someone to choose to stop building at all on that foundation and go seek out a different foundation to build on.

Exactly why Hebrews was written, as well as Galatians. Many Christians are caught up in the same thing. Some of them on this very forum, but if the gospel was ever believed, it doesn't matter if someone becomes deceived of the truth through false teaching. The foundation that was laid was laid for eternity. If we're believers, we're "in Christ", and that will be true for all eternity. The consequence of lack of faithfulness is lack of fruit in this mortal life, and rewards in heaven. We don't just "choose" to no longer be saved. If our life is ever in Christ, it will always be.

As for 2 Pet. 1, again, the whole thing is conditional. It says the word "if" multiple times. V. 7 If these things be in you, you won't be barren or unfruitful. V. 10 If you do these things, you will not fall. That passage seems more like a good case against eternal security. V. 9 says that he has forgotten his purification from his former sins, but nowhere does it say that he is still purified from his sins.

I think your "bias" is showing! You see the word "if" and "fall" and your mind goes straight to a "a good case against eternal security". The passage in 2 Peter 1 is about being "barren or unfruitful". It's about bearing fruit and has nothing to do with eternal life. Same as Paul taught in Galatians 5 (which was mentioned already). How are we "purified" from sin? Through the body of Christ, and He said He would never lose us. He can't, because we're made one spirit with Him, and to lose us would be to break His Word which He cannot do even if He wanted to.

Colossians 1:20-22
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

As for the rest, I completely agree that being one with Christ means that you are eternally secure. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that once you are saved, you are from then on incapable of choosing to not be one with Christ. Like I said before, it takes a lot more than just slipping up, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for those who have been partakers of the Holy Spirit to fall away.

So, Jesus was mistaken when He said He would lose "nothing" (John 6:37-40)? Do the sheep have a choice once they've been found to leave their masters ownership? When a baby is born will they always be their fathers child whether they stay with him or leave?

Just look at Jesus' parable of the sower. There are two instances where the seed (Word) is actually taken into the soil, new life sprouts, and it dies off.

Are you going to add to the Word of God now? My bible never says anything about "dies off" but uses "withered" and "choked". Again the whole point here is they brought "no fruit to perfection".

Luke 8:10-14
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

One big problem I have with eternal security is this: many people hear that teaching and come to the conclusion, "I was saved, and I can't lose my salvation. So I can live however I want and be eternally secure." And then they live like hell. Maybe that's not how your belief system actually works, but plenty of people misinterpret it to mean that, and that's a real problem.

That's their problem, not ours. We are to believe and teach the truth of the gospel, not amend it in order to try to make people live godly lifestyles. Only the truth of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit can give the motivation for Godly living. It's His love and grace that "contraineth us" (2 Cor. 5:14, Titus 2:11-12). If a person makes the choice to live a worldly life, they face the chastening hand of God, and cannot bear fruit of the Spirit and will lose eternal rewards. But anyone that believes the true gospel will live in eternity with Christ. If we don't teach the true gospel, they can't hear the truth and come to faith (Romans 1:16, 10:17). That's what God says, not me. I'd be very careful if I were you about teaching error concerning the gospel of salvation. If you teach eternal life can be lost in any way, you teach "another gospel" (Gal. 1:8-9)!

 

[forrestcupp]

Haha. I have all kinds of thoughts going through my head right now, but I can see it would be fruitless to continue, and I'm worn out right now. I've had a pretty rough couple of weeks. So I'll let you have your thread, and just be thankful that you and I are saved and part of the family of God. God bless you, brother.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The context in Heb 6 contrasts those who WERE:
"who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

but are NOW:
"crucify (present tense) to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put (present tense) him to an open shame."

The end of the ONCE Christian NOW apostate is to be burned (Hebrews 6:8).

Compared Heb 6 to 1 Cor 3:

1 Cor 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

What does "work" here refer to? In the context, Paul is making a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. The church is built by the work of making converts. Paul laid the "foundation" of the church by making the initial converts in Corinth. Others came behind and Paul and build upon that foundation by making more converts. So "work" in this context refers to converts as Paul called the Corinthians his "work" (1 Corinthians 9:1). "If any man's work shall be burned" in 1 Cor 3:15 the "work" refers to the convert turned apostate, the convert that WAS "once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come" but NOW "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" who end is to be burned.

So Heb 6 and 1 Cor 3 say the same thing about the ONCE Christian/convert but NOW apostate whose end is to be burned.