Hell Fire

[Truther]

hmm, did he actually personally murder any, or did he have help?

Include Hitler's cronies too.

 

[Truther]

You don't think death without the possibility of Resurrection isn't an eternal punishment?

No.

Annihilation doctrine, etc., is a perfect excuse to live like the devil.

 

[ChristisGod]

No.

Annihilation doctrine, etc., is a perfect excuse to live like the devil.

agreed if that false doctrine was true then just live like the devil and enjoy your flesh life and everything that entails.

 

[teamventure]

you're funny

I know you love to think about all the bad people getting their just dessert, rest easy, my concept of Hell is worse than yours.

Not to mention, closer to Biblical truth

I don't believe that just desserts statement is a fair characterization of kcnalps stance.
It is presumptuous to assume someone who believes a certain way about hell just wants people to burn. Actually, that assumption is an assumption of the heart and is judgemental.

 

[teamventure]

Wrong. What the devil has successfully accomplished is convincing most of the church, including you, that sinners shall not surely die.

They will die, yes, but your earthly mind cannot comprehend the concept yet.
A second death is eternal seperation from God.

 

[DNB]

You pick and choose what you want to be literal per your taste buds.

Fact is, if it is absolutely impossible to make sense of, it may just be an allegory etc.

But, you have no liberty to make Jesus' clear words into one.

But, what do you think of these: 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood', or 'sever your body part if it offends you'? Do you believe in the eucharist or transubstantiation, or self-flagellation, or do you apply hermeneutics and conclude that Jesus is not speaking literally here?

 

[aspen]

I don't believe that just desserts statement is a fair characterization of kcnalps stance.
It is presumptuous to assume someone who believes a certain way about hell just wants people to burn. Actually, that assumption is an assumption of the heart and is judgemental.

Your opinion is noted

 

[aspen]

I fail to see anything "funny" about burning in Hell forever and ever.

Actually I'm trying to prevent people from "getting their just dessert". What are you trying to do?

Ok, waiting for Scripture from you.

I am not going to play the scripture game with you. The interpretation you have of Hell is not the burning garbage dump that Jesus uses to describe the condition experienced apart from God, nor does it match CS Lewis' understanding of Hell, which is a condition of a person who cannot experience God or paradise. Lewis' interpretation matches my own.

 

[Truther]

But, what do you think of these: 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood', or 'sever your body part if it offends you'? Do you believe in the eucharist or transubstantiation, or self-flagellation, or do you apply hermeneutics and conclude that Jesus is not speaking literally here?

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

That is the baptism of the Holy Ghost(Jesus' new body) that enters us, then flows out the way it came...


38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


We "ate" Jesus when he first entered us, then he flows out of us through our belly to our vocal chords...


4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


This is what Jesus meant.

 

[DNB]

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

That is the baptism of the Holy Ghost(Jesus' new body) that enters us, then flows out the way it came...


38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


We "ate" Jesus when he first entered us, then he flows out of us through our belly to our vocal chords...


4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


This is what Jesus meant.

ok, so you applied a non-literal interpretation to the texts that I offered? Did you not just agree with me there?

 

[Butch5]

So you're saying OT overrules NT. Are you a Jew?

No, I'm saying you should learn how to make an argument. It's all the word of God. One part does take precedence over another. If you have to pit one part of the word of God against another your theology is messed up. It should all harmonize.

 

[Butch5]

Already did.
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Proof texting isn't an argument. It's a tactic of those without an argument

 

[Butch5]

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

I think you're missing the point. The Lake of Fire doesnt burn forever. Read Jeremiah 31:38-40. Besides, the people in this passage are alive. They're worshiping the beast. If you read verse 12 it says, here is the patience of the saints. The Greek word that is translated here means, in this place. Is it your argument that the saints too are in a place of eternal conscious torment? Besides those two I've already shown that aion cannot mean eternal. Jesus said the aion would end. It's my opinion that Jesus knew Koine Greek better than all of the translators today.

What you guys need to realize is that just because you understand a passage a certain way, doesnt mean it's correct. You guys really should research this stuff or at least read it in context. Here you've given me a passage where living people are suffering to prove that the dead will suffer eternal conscious torment. This shows me you've not investigated this subject. You're simply tossing out passage that someone gave to you.

 

[Butch5]

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


Welcome to God's character.

Fear Him, and don't second guess Him.

He is not a human being, with human weakness....


41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Should I take that as a no? No God isn't a human. However, he has told us what His justice is, an eye for an eye. When someone was flogged they were to receive no more than 40 lashes. Your doctrine impugns Gods character more than once. Firstly, the Scriptures tell us that God doesnt lie. God said, 'the soul that sins shall die'. Your doctrine says the soul that sins shall burn in eternal conscious torment. If your doctrine was correct it would mean that God lied. That the penalty for sin isn't death but rather eternal conscious torment. However, those who have researched know thatbGod didn't lie. Secondly, your doctrine portrays God as sadistic. It says that He keeps people alive eternally for the sole purpose if torturing them. That's hard to beleive when the Bible tells us that God is Love. It tells us that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

This is one doctrine I would be very cautious about pushing as you are seriously impugning the character of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

the soul that sins "dies," while they are still walking around here on earth, don't they?

Not sure what you mean. The Resurrection itself wouldn't.

boy, you dont think?
i know this maybe doesnt make sense to you right now, but you confidence level there in that last statement gives me...pause

 

[bbyrd009]

In the garden of Eden the tree of life provided health and life so long as the couple ate. They were tossed out after they sinned so they couldn't eat of it and live forever. So whatever we call immortality or eternal life... And whatever that gift consists of... One thing we can be fairly certain about is that it's conditional. They're a Tree of Life in the New Jerusalem, the city which will eventually become the capital of the earth. There for the healing of the nations. So yeah, though we are told to seek immortality, the eternal life we do receive eventually isn't of the precise same nature it seems as that which is innate to divinity.

well, i suggest that we conflate "eternal" with "forever" to suit ourselves, when the definition is pretty clearly "a space of time, an age."

and where are we told to "seek" immortality? Again, i think put on immortality is being not heard as it was meant, likely so that the Cult of Sol could continue to be deceived.

and, wouldn't your New Jerusalem be a Kingdom that Comes by Observation?

 

[bbyrd009]

Include Hitler's cronies too.

ha well i am no apologist for Hitler, but he was duly elected, after inciting a rebellion no less?
so i dunno, but i would contemplate Hitler being forgiven too
hard to imagine, i know

 

[Base12]

What is Hell?

Oh, I see. Hell is where babies come from.

Can I get a confirmation?

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Yep. Even Jesus said it. Children come from Hell.

How about another Witness...

Isaiah 51:1
"Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged."

Wait... people come from the Pit? I thought the "Pit" was Hell?

Isaiah 51:2
"Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

Oh, I see. Sarah, or rather her Womb, is the 'Pit'.

Well, what do you know? Hell is simply a parable for the place we all came from.

I wonder how we got there to begin with?

 

[amadeus]

I've wondered about that too. But we've never seen eternal fire. And hopefully won't.

If we have been or are being baptized with fire, what have we "seen"?

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matt 3:11

 

[Butch5]

the soul that sins "dies," while they are still walking around here on earth, don't they?

boy, you dont think?
i know this maybe doesnt make sense to you right now, but you confidence level there in that last statement gives me...pause

You're losing me.