Hell Fire

[Heart2Soul]

No proof? Trump has gone on record as saying , “ I have no need to ask for forgiveness”....... does that sound like a Saved Christian to you ? He is a proven liar, a serial Adulterer who pays hush- money to whores , he is cruel to others ( just ask Mrs.Cruz about that one) and he thinks Christianity is Bull* ***”

Trump didn't say he has no need of forgiveness, he said he would rather not have to ask for forgiveness and if he does what is right then he should be fine. He also stated he takes communion and that is the same as repenting and seeking forgiveness.
And Donald Trump did seek prayer for forgiveness.
Ben Carson says Donald Trump prayed for forgiveness before the debate

 

[Brakelite]

The thing we can't comprehend is the concept of the second death or what it means to be dead but still exist.

Have you considered the possibility that the reason you can't comprehend that particular concept is because you are trying to comprehend your own false perception of truth rather than truth itself? Don't you think the idea of existing in death, where one can presumably feel pain, anxiety, fear, and express those emotions with hatred and vindictive blasphemy against the God they assume is the cause of their suffering, a contradiction to the whole meaning of the word death? So perhaps the conclusion people are making regarding those feelings and emotions are wrong.

if the exegete himself is unable to comprehend his own conclusion, then we are left with no guidelines to determine truth

Similar to people's vain attempts to explain their version of the Trinity or Godhead. They cannot clearly explain what scripture says nor can they adequately explain what they think it says. Yet what they say scripture says it's absolute truth and heresy if you don't believe it.

I see what you mean but I DO understand my conclusions about hell.
Which are that it's 1 a literal place 2 eternal & 3 a place of torment.
I just mean that it's hard to understand the concept of being dead but still existing.

Again, you are having trouble to explain your conclusion which is hardly surprising. Perhaps because you cannot prove that a burning place of torment... Commonly called hell... is Eternal?

 

[teamventure]

Have you considered the possibility that the reason you can't comprehend that particular concept is because you are trying to comprehend your own false perception of truth rather than truth itself? Don't you think the idea of existing in death, where one can presumably feel pain, anxiety, fear, and express those emotions with hatred and vindictive blasphemy against the God they assume is the cause of their suffering, a contradiction to the whole meaning of the word death? So perhaps the conclusion people are making regarding those feelings and emotions are wrong.



Similar to people's vain attempts to explain their version of the Trinity or Godhead. They cannot clearly explain what scripture says nor can they adequately explain what they think it says. Yet what they say scripture says it's absolute truth and heresy if you don't believe it.


Again, you are having trouble to explain your conclusion which is hardly surprising. Perhaps because you cannot prove that a burning place of torment... Commonly called hell... is Eternal?

It is not just death it is the second death. That would have different connotations.

If you think there isn't proof that hell is an eternal place of torment than you don't believe scripture.
Revelation 14:11
The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night

 

[DNB]

I see what you mean but I DO understand my conclusions about hell.
Which are that it's 1 a literal place 2 eternal & 3 a place of torment.
I just mean that it's hard to understand the concept of being dead but still existing.

Ok, but it's just that notion, dead and simultaneously alive. Yes, the Bible speaks of eternal life and death, annihilation, ceasing to exist, etc... These all must be considered in a harmonious, not contradictory, sense. Eternal conscious (alive) torment, can apply to all those terms. But, for example, annihilation and eternal torment, do not both support annihilationism.

 

[DNB]

Similar to people's vain attempts to explain their version of the Trinity or Godhead. They cannot clearly explain what scripture says nor can they adequately explain what they think it says. Yet what they say scripture says it's absolute truth and heresy if you don't believe it.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Brakelite]

It is not just death it is the second death. That would have different connotations.

If you think there isn't proof that hell is an eternal place of torment than you don't believe scripture.
Revelation 14:11
The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night

Jude informs us that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by eternal fire. Are those cities still burning?
As for Revelation 14. Can smoke still be rising after the fire goes out? Can that not be a metaphorical application meaning the repercussions of their rebelliousness is eternal? That their death is permanent?

 

[teamventure]

Jude informs us that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by eternal fire. Are those cities still burning?
As for Revelation 14. Can smoke still be rising after the fire goes out? Can that not be a metaphorical application meaning the repercussions of their rebelliousness is eternal? That their death is permanent?

The lake of fire won't go out.
This hyperbole is nonsense.

 

[Brakelite]

The lake of fire won't go out.
This hyperbole is nonsense.

Before you get so adamant, ask yourself... Or ask scripture... Where that lake of fire is.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Mark 4:19 the cares of this world, [food, clothing, appearance, status, pride, people pleasing etc.] the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.


Acts 5:20 “Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.”


born again-a new life

 

[kcnalp]

When you're trying to depict the environment in hell, kcnalp, why in the world would you choose a blatant allegory to do so? Luke 16:22-28 has absolutely no bearing on this topic.

You don't believe in the eternal fire?

 

[kcnalp]

I'm having a hard time forgiving you right now...!

For what?

 

[kcnalp]

I do the Will Of The Father....just like Jesus told His Disciples to do . What is “ The Will Of The Father”——“BELIEVE in the One that He sent”....

I am “ exempt” from nothing , other than trying to keep the Law to make myself Fit for Heaven....... “ Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness”
All I do is Rest in the Gospel Of Grace That Saves me ... 1cor15:1-4

So you ignore all the NT warnings. No wonder you call people fools and wish they burn in Hell.

 

[kcnalp]

To get Forgiveness , “ Turn to God( repent ) with Faith in Jesus Christ “ I have done that. Trump has not. He calls God a Liar......
God says, “ ALL have sinned and fallen short”.........Trump says he has never done anything That would make him obligated to ask forgiveness for....
Folks, you don’t got any more LOST than a person that fails to see and admit that they are Lost and need a Savior ....Christianity 101.
Now that we are getting close to the day where this Orange Stain will be ejected from an office he was never Fit for, I notice he sprinkles the word “ God” in there every now and then in his speeches to placate and fool a naive “ church world” . You ever notice he never talks about Jesus, though? There is good reason for that .Jesus is not IN Him.....Trump is a Cruel man who possesses a Black Heart... Christianity BEGINS when the Holy Spirit gives you a New, CONTRITE Heart That reveals to you that you are a Wretched , Lost Sinner That MUST have a Savior to get to Heaven..Trump thinks Christianity is “ Bull ****” and proves it with His evil “ Fruit” every day.....
Never forget that Fidel Castro claimed to be a “ Christian” also.....he is in Hell today ,of course . Trump will be joining ol’ Fidel unless God “ opens his heart “ so that trump will hear and Believe the Gospel and ask Gid to save him......no signs of that happening yet....regardless of how many times he poses in front of a church with an upside- down Bible......truly a “ CringeWorthy” moment....

Trump is pro Christian, pro Israel and pro life. How about you?

 

[Butch5]

Ok, well isn't this topic about post resurrection?

The op is about Hell Fire. I was simply explaining that "Hell" as most understand it, isn't a Biblical concept.

 

[Butch5]

Man is mortal and he will die. This is true but hell is a second death. People won't be alive in hell yet they will exist forever in death. Our earthly minds can't comprehend it.

It seems to me this is an opinion. It seem like a logical contradiction. The definition if death is, without life. How could one be dead, yet alive?

 

[Butch5]

Not Bible???

"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"you are tormented"
"this place of torment"

Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'

No, it's not Biblical. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about life after death. It's an illustration of something else. This is the last in a series of parables Jesus gave. I'll post later on the meaning of the parable, I don't have time at the moment. I would ask you though, why do you assume they are alive when the text states that they died?

 

[Truther]

The concept of Hell as place of eternal concious torment is not taught in the Bible. It comes from Greek Philosphy. For there to be a place of eternal torment man you need to be immortal. However the apostle Paul informs us that the Father alone is immortal. Man is mortal and he will die. Hell in the Bible, Hades or Sheole, is actually the grave. All people go to the grave. When a person dies they go to the grave where they remain until the Resurrection.

Jesus openly taught there is a hell.

 

[Truther]

When you're trying to depict the environment in hell, kcnalp, why in the world would you choose a blatant allegory to do so? Luke 16:22-28 has absolutely no bearing on this topic.

Allegory?

No way.

Jesus named names.

This is a factual event in history.

Just ask Abraham and Lazarus.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus openly taught there is a hell.

Yes, but it's not what people today call Hell. Today Hell is a place of eternal conscious torment. In he Scriptures Hell is the grave

 

[DNB]

You don't believe in the eternal fire?

Literal fire, with flames, smoke, carbon dioxide and heat, no, I do not.