Hell Fire

[DNB]

Again, you are judging Trump with ZERO proof. Do you forgive Trump?

Luke 6:37 (NKJV)
37 Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

I'm having a hard time forgiving you right now...!

 

[DNB]

It doesn't appear to me that outer darkness is hell, but some metaphor. Is there scripture linking outer darkness to a hell?

And BTW we have spirit prison that Jesus visited 1 Peter 3:18-19.
And we have the lake of fire, and I think they are different, for the lake of fire is "prepared" for the devil and his angels. It doesn't say anything like that about spirit prison.
And we have hell cast into the lake of fire: Revelation 20:14

So it gets very confusing perhaps?

There are many metaphors and analogies for the place of eternal death, in the Bible. So yes, it can cause confusion to the hyper-literalists. Every alteration in description leads them to believe that there are more than one place, or interim periods, of judgement.
Upon physical death, all men lay in the grave until Christ's return. On Judgement day, the Great White Throne, men's conduct on earth will be examined (faith), and Christ will determine their eternal standing. Those destined for hell, to me, will suffer mental anguish and torment, not physical. They will be punishing themselves for the frustration and resentment that they will be experiencing, knowing that all they had to do while on earth was to say sorry (repent), and thank you (grace), to have circumvented their current demise.
All the allusions to fire, darkness, and burning are figurative descriptions of their self-inflicted spiritual torment. God is not a sadist, nor does he exact corporeal punishment for crimes of the heart.

 

[teamventure]

Yes, Hell will have many evil people in it .....Hitler, Stalin , Pol Pot, Nero, Trump ( unless he repents) etc....
But there also will be Billions Of “ Moral “ People there.....the “ Good Neighbor Sam” type......worked hard, went to church, payed their taxes, etc....miracle workers will,be there.....some very , very decent folks who were great to be around....they loved their kids ...they “ did their best” to obey the commandments of God.....they made the Sermon on the Mound their Spiritual Benchmark..... they Turned Over New Leaves....yes, plenty of nice , decent and gentle-people will be-in Hell......it ain’t ALL going to be Charles Manson crazy, evil Monsters down there.
Thy are-not their because they lacked decency —- they are there NOT because Of Sins .....all Souls That are In Hell are there for ONE REASON——- Unbelief.All Of The Sins Of the World were paid for by Jesus......Everybody had the chance to “ cash in “ on what Jesus accomplished at the Cross. One cashes in with Faith ......all of Hell’s denizens lacked that .

Dude, all debate aside, it is comical that you put Trump on the same short list as Hitler and Stalin. Lol.

 

[teamventure]

Well then, if so illogical, then I would question the veracity of your conclusion?

I didn't say it was illogical, since we exist in a different realm than hell, we have a limited understanding of what it means, however we can always rely on scripture and my conclusion is based on scripture.

 

[teamventure]

There are many metaphors and analogies for the place of eternal death, in the Bible. So yes, it can cause confusion to the hyper-literalists. Every alteration in description leads them to believe that there are more than one place, or interim periods, of judgement.
Upon physical death, all men lay in the grave until Christ's return. On Judgement day, the Great White Throne, men's conduct on earth will be examined (faith), and Christ will determine their eternal standing. Those destined for hell, to me, will suffer mental anguish and torment, not physical. They will be punishing themselves for the frustration and resentment that they will be experiencing, knowing that all they had to do while on earth was to say sorry (repent), and thank you (grace), to have circumvented their current demise.
All the allusions to fire, darkness, and burning are figurative descriptions of their self-inflicted spiritual torment. God is not a sadist, nor does he exact corporeal punishment for crimes of the heart.

It's best to interpret scripture how it was intended. There is plenty of literal in scripture. Once you allagorize scripture you get on your way down a slipery slope to making it mean anything you want it to say.

 

[DNB]

I didn't say it was illogical, since we exist in a different realm than hell, we have a limited understanding of what it means, however we can always rely on scripture and my conclusion is based on scripture.

Incomprehensible implies illogical.
Besides, you just did it again, using circular reasoning to justify your position. I'm claiming that because your interpretation was beyond comprehension, it puts into question your Biblical exegesis. You answered by saying 'well, it's Biblical'. That was an illogical response under the circumstances.

 

[teamventure]

Incomprehensible implies illogical.
Besides, you just did it again, using circular reasoning to justify your position. I'm claiming that because your interpretation was beyond comprehension, it puts into question your Biblical exegesis. You answered by saying 'well, it's Biblical'. That was an illogical response under the circumstances.

Hold on. I didn't say anything was incomprehensible. I said we can't comprehend it because of our limited understanding that doesnt mean it to be incomprehensible.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So you claim to be exempt from all the NT warnings? I don't know anywhere in the NT that makes anyone exempt.
Luke 6:46 (NKJV)
46 But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?

I do the Will Of The Father....just like Jesus told His Disciples to do . What is “ The Will Of The Father”——“BELIEVE in the One that He sent”....

I am “ exempt” from nothing , other than trying to keep the Law to make myself Fit for Heaven....... “ Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness”
All I do is Rest in the Gospel Of Grace That Saves me ... 1cor15:1-4

 

[DNB]

It's best to interpret scripture how it was intended. There is plenty of literal in scripture. Once you allagorize scripture you get on your way down a slipery slope to making it mean anything you want it to say.

It's best to be aware of the implausible, irrational and out-of-character nature of certain verses in Scripture. It is up to the exegete to recognize what type of literary convention is being used within a particular pericope. This usually separates the wise from the impetuous.
When Jesus says 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood', or, 'sever your body part, if it offends you', we have to remain sober and decide what is literal, and what is figurative.
Again, God is not a sadist, nor does He employ physical punishment to those who committed the crime of disbelief. Therefore, we must appreciate when a verse is speaking in the realm of either metaphor or another literary device, or literalism. This is the indispensable art of exegesis.

 

[DNB]

Hold on. I didn't say anything was incomprehensible. I said we can't comprehend it because of our limited understanding that doesnt mean it to be incomprehensible.

Incomprehensible to the human mind, is the same thing as saying that something is irrational. Meaning, why in the world would you espouse a doctrine that you can't even comprehend, and claim it to be God-given truth? What governs what is rightly dividing God's Word, with logic like that?

 

[teamventure]

It's best to be aware of the implausible, irrational and out-of-character nature of certain verses in Scripture. It is up to the exegete to recognize what type of literary convention is being used within a particular pericope. This usually separates the wise from the impetuous.
When Jesus says 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood', or, 'sever your body part, if it offends you', we have to remain sober and decide what is literal, and what is figurative.
Again, God is not a sadist, nor does He employ physical punishment to those who committed the crime of disbelief. Therefore, we must appreciate when a verse is speaking in the realm of either metaphor or another literary device, or literalism. This is the indispensable art of exegesis.

It is easy to distinguish between literal and literary device.
Drink his blood is obviously NOT literal.
Hell is obviously literal.

 

[teamventure]

Incomprehensible to the human mind, is the same thing as saying that something is irrational. Meaning, why in the world would you espouse a doctrine that you can't even comprehend, and claim it to be God-given truth? What governs what is rightly dividing God's Word, with logic like that?

You are again taking me out of context.
Our minds can't comprehend it because of our limited perspective, that is not to say that it's incomprehensible.

 

[DNB]

You are again taking me out of context.
Our minds can't comprehend it because of our limited perspective, that is not to say that it's incomprehensible.

Then let's put it simple, again, if YOU can't understand what you just concluded, then how the flippin' heck do you know if it is a veritable divinely inspired precept?
What's your hermeneutics, as long as a doctrine's principles elude you, therefore it must be orthodox, and thus, we don't try to make heads or tails of it?

 

[teamventure]

Then let's put it simple, again, if YOU can't understand what you just concluded, then how the flippin' heck do you know if it is a veritable divinely inspired precept?
What's your hermeneutics, as long as a doctrine's principles elude you, therefore it must be orthodox, and thus, we don't try to make heads or tails of it?

DNB I was trying to say that I understand my conclusions about what hell is based on scripture.
The thing we can't comprehend is the concept of the second death or what it means to be dead but still exist.
I'm sorry to frustrate you, I struggle with communication. Lol.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So you're saying God hasn't forgiven Trump. But God has forgiven you. Hmmm
Matthew 7:1-5 (NKJV)

To get Forgiveness , “ Turn to God( repent ) with Faith in Jesus Christ “ I have done that. Trump has not. He calls God a Liar......
God says, “ ALL have sinned and fallen short”.........Trump says he has never done anything That would make him obligated to ask forgiveness for....
Folks, you don’t got any more LOST than a person that fails to see and admit that they are Lost and need a Savior ....Christianity 101.
Now that we are getting close to the day where this Orange Stain will be ejected from an office he was never Fit for, I notice he sprinkles the word “ God” in there every now and then in his speeches to placate and fool a naive “ church world” . You ever notice he never talks about Jesus, though? There is good reason for that .Jesus is not IN Him.....Trump is a Cruel man who possesses a Black Heart... Christianity BEGINS when the Holy Spirit gives you a New, CONTRITE Heart That reveals to you that you are a Wretched , Lost Sinner That MUST have a Savior to get to Heaven..Trump thinks Christianity is “ Bull ****” and proves it with His evil “ Fruit” every day.....
Never forget that Fidel Castro claimed to be a “ Christian” also.....he is in Hell today ,of course . Trump will be joining ol’ Fidel unless God “ opens his heart “ so that trump will hear and Believe the Gospel and ask Gid to save him......no signs of that happening yet....regardless of how many times he poses in front of a church with an upside- down Bible......truly a “ CringeWorthy” moment....

 

[teamventure]

Then let's put it simple, again, if YOU can't understand what you just concluded, then how the flippin' heck do you know if it is a veritable divinely inspired precept?
What's your hermeneutics, as long as a doctrine's principles elude you, therefore it must be orthodox, and thus, we don't try to make heads or tails of it?

We don't understand heaven. So is that to say we can't trust heaven as a divinely inspired precept?

 

[DNB]

DNB I was trying to say that I understand my conclusions about what hell is based on scripture.
The thing we can't comprehend is the concept of the second death or what it means to be dead but still exist.
I'm sorry to frustrate you, I struggle with communication. Lol.

Well, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so vehement about this, but I do have a low tolerance when people subscribe to and espouse, illogical conclusions, claiming it to be from God, or His Word. I am adamantly saying, if the exegete himself is unable to comprehend his own conclusion, then we are left with no guidelines to determine truth (wisdom and edification = glory to God).
You said this 'People won't be alive in hell yet they will exist forever in death. Our earthly minds can't comprehend it'. I find the first part meaningless and ludicrous, and then you tried to justify the absurdity in your 2nd part with some sort of pretentious humility.

 

[DNB]

We don't understand heaven. So is that to say we can't trust heaven as a divinely inspired precept?

We do understand heaven, nothing is written in the Bible about heaven that sounds ludicrous, like your statement about hell.

 

[Brakelite]

I've wondered about that too. But we've never seen eternal fire. And hopefully won't.

Why not?
KJV Isaiah 33:14-15
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

 

[teamventure]

Well, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so vehement about this, but I do have a low tolerance when people subscribe to and espouse, illogical conclusions, claiming it to be from God, or His Word. I am adamantly saying, if the exegete himself is unable to comprehend his own conclusion, then we are left with no guidelines to determine truth (wisdom and edification = glory to God).
You said this 'People won't be alive in hell yet they will exist forever in death. Our earthly minds can't comprehend it'. I find the first part meaningless and ludicrous, and then you tried to justify the absurdity in your 2nd part with some sort of pretentious humility.

I see what you mean but I DO understand my conclusions about hell.
Which are that it's 1 a literal place 2 eternal & 3 a place of torment.
I just mean that it's hard to understand the concept of being dead but still existing.