Hell Question

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DrBubbaLove

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Jan 17, 2008
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(thesuperjag;36095)
It doesn't. I just had to point that out that some people believe that He is one......but Truth, God is no revengeful monster at all.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Oh, ok. So you admit that the damned burning in Hell for eternity does not make God a monster. Good to know. Thanks.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:I really hope you believe that verse is referring to the flesh death.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Yes I know, you Also believe there are Two Deaths right? Flesh and Soul? I'm saying those that are to perish are Judged after death.
 

Jordan

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(thesuperjag;36093)
Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:I really hope you believe that verse is referring to the flesh death.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Yes I know, you Also believe there are Two Deaths right? Flesh and Soul? I'm saying those that are to perish are Judged after death.It's all supported in scriptures. Like I said, The last shall be judged First, and the first shall be judged Last by the Judge of all. (Hebrews 12:23)(DrBubbaLove;36097)
(thesuperjag;36095)
It doesn't. I just had to point that out that some people believe that He is one......but Truth, God is no revengeful monster at all.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Oh, ok. So you admit that the damned burning in Hell for eternity does not make God a monster. Good to know. Thanks.Remember, there is no doctrine in God's Words as a burning forever in Hell. It's unbiblical.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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Unorthodox ChristianYes I know, you Also believe there are Two Deaths right? Flesh and Soul? I'm saying those that are to perish are Judged after death.
All are Judged after death,all will be judged at the same time,at the white throne,the only difference is those that took part in the first resurrection do not have to fear the 2nd death.
 
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All are Judged after death,all will be judged at the same time,at the white throne,the only difference is those that took part in the first resurrection do not have to fear the 2nd death.
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1st Corinthians 6:2
 

n2thelight

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Unorthodox ChristianDo ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Totally different meaningI Corinthians 6:1 "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?"Keep in mind that this is dealing with one Christian having a complaint against another believer in Jesus Christ, which is to say Christian. This is not discussing the matter of dispute between you and a non-Christian. Paul is addressing a situation where two Christians are having a matter in dispute whereby it requires a legal settlement, and the use of an outside arbitrator. Paul is saying, How dare you be drawn into civil court and have your dispute be settled by an atheistic court of unbelievers. Putting your lives at the hands of unjust people, and of course this is not true all the time for there are many just and fair judges. However, there is another matter we face in the courts today, with unbelievers sitting in their black robes, and the lawyers with their sticky fingers for your money. The outcome in the end result will be that both of the Christians will end up as losers. This is just one reason for trying to come to a settlement to where the courts do not have to be used. It is a no win situation. Even when there is an injury, when the court room is cleared and the money is divided up, the legal minds end up with have the majority of the settlement. Paul is saying, how dare you go before a court when you are both Christians. I Corinthians 6:2 "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?"Paul is calling your attention that in the next earth age it is the Christians that are going to be the judges of all the angelic beings. Yet in this life are you not even able to settle your little petty disputes that you have between yourselves? Are you still like a bunch of little children fighting over their toys, that you can settle your daily troubles that you have with one another? I Corinthians 6:3 "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"Paul is telling them to wake up; don't you know that God has chosen you to be the ones that will be judging the angels? That will be a duty far greater than these little ordinary things that you are facing in this life in the flesh. If you do not have eyes to see and understand the Word of God, these last two verses will seem very strange to you. So what is Paul talking about when he says that we are going to be judging angels?Paul is talking about Ezekiel 44, which will be taking place in the Millennium age. This happens after the seventh trumpet and our Lord Jesus Christ has returned to this earth and set up His Millennium Kingdom. It is the age to come, and God is going to use the priest of the Zadok, which is to say "the priest of the just" to do the judging in that earth age. Paul is talking to you that have the eyes to see and understand the scripture.Ezekiel 44:23 "And they shall teach My People the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.""They" are the ones that are the saints of Christ. In the Millennium age the elect will teach the difference between the holy and the profane, the true Christ and the false Christ. The truth will be taught. Jesus Christ will be right here on earth and the world will be His kingdom. There will be no flesh bodies during that age, because at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, all flesh will be done away with and all shall be changed instantly into their spiritual bodies, just as the angels are in. All people in that spiritual body will know truth, and what is clean and unclean. That truth will be the same then as it is today, and it is all recorded in His Word. Ezekiel 44:24 "And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgment: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths."The judges of the Millennium age will be the Elect of God. The judges then will be fair and just, and their judgments will not be bought, coerced, bartered and sold like the crop of boot-legged, half-breed judges of today. All the rights, standards, and punishments will be just, because they are set by our Lord. All will be obedient to all feast days, Sabbaths, laws, and ordinances. All will be in their incorruptible body having full understanding, and you will know and understand the requirements of you in that kingdom. In the spiritual body all people [souls] will be as the "angels" are.Ezekiel 44:25 "And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves." This is the same "dead" that are spoken of in Revelation 20:5. They are mortals, meaning they are liable to die in the spirit, just as all flesh is already dead, gone and no more. So in other words, it is your loved one who were deceived and entered into the Millennium age in a fallen state. The Zadok cannot touch them, but you will be able to recognize your family and loved ones, and help them. You can speak to and encourage them, and you can even, with righteous indignation, chew them out if they get in trouble. Very few will get this opportunity, for this is one of the promises for those standing against the Antichrist. So Paul is reminding all Christians that in the Millennium age, you are the people that will be doing the judging for Christ of the angels. You know what God's laws and judgment will be, so why do you go running of to some court of this world that has no idea in the world of God's laws and judgments. You allow My people to come under the heathen to do your judging for you. God's law is absolute, while man's law is controlled by some judgments that have been given before, right or wrong. It is the "law of precedent". Under the "law of precedent" one court decision sets the precedent or example of how future court decision will be handled. There are no absolutes, and the only thing that matters is the words that flow from the mouths of the attorneys, that can dug up from past cases. It isn't a matter of being right or wrong, good or bad, but what did some other court decision said on the matter. "Precedents" are the traditions of men that set the standards for all men under that law. They may be passed by a judge that is so ignorant that he doesn't know God's Word, or the workings of the Spirit of God. Looking at many of their decisions it is obvious that many of them simply do not use common sense, as far as God's law is concerned. Friend, if any judgment does not abide by God's law then it is wrong. Why would you place yourself under one of these courts in question, when you can settle the matter between yourselves, and accept God just law. When you live in this country that law of precedent exists, but Paul is saying, How dare you take your disputes before one of those places.God has told us how to settle our disputes between ourselves. First we go to the man face to face, and explain what your problem is and the two of you talk it through. If he will not listen to you, then you go and find an arbitrator. Remember that this is when both men claim to be Christians, and the arbitrator also is a Christian. It is important that the Arbitrator know God's Word, and you take him with you and return to the man that you have the dispute with and confront him again. It is important that the Arbitrator know both of you, or neither of you, and then there will be no partiality in his judgment and the outcome will be just. This is the form that our constitutional system was formed from, but down through the years it has been replaced by another form which we now have.
 

bytheway

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Jan 1, 2008
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WOW! Talk about a hot topic!
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Gotta go with the bubba on this one. John 1 says He lights the lite of EVERY MAN that comes into the world. Every human is on an eternal journey. After physical death occures it's a matter of location. The what's left lexists forever. Nobody living now can explain Heaven or Hell fully. We'll all be shocked when it's seen for what both really are.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Jan 17, 2008
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It's all supported in scriptures. Like I said, The last shall be judged First, and the first shall be judged Last by the Judge of all. (Hebrews 12:23)Remember, there is no doctrine in God's Words as a burning forever in Hell. It's unbiblical.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Oh that rights, John made a mistake in Rev 20:10 and did not really mean for "ever and ever" as he did the 10 other times he uses that same exact phrase in Revelation. He could have written the word only once, which he does several times elsewhere, even meaning WORLD or AGE one time when he did so. SO obviously John knew how to express AGE if he wanted to. And if that were the case in 20:10, that the word only appeared ONCE by itself, then we could argue over the meaning of the single word. Because then AND ONLY then is the meaning of the word most of the time ever or never, but occassionally age or world (as in ending and not eternal).Yet EVERYTIME, every single time the g165 (greek word-aion) is repeated in a phrase (appears twice) it is clearly and unmistakenly is meant to express FOR EVER and EVER. And except for Rev 20:10, NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE would argue that the other examples of the EXACT SAME PHRASE means age or world.Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 

stlizzy

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Feb 6, 2008
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Man... to be frank... if all the people who don't choose God simply stop existing.... that really seems to be a lot better than burning forever and ever. It's like, "So what if I never choose God, because I can have it good 'til I die, and then I'll be dead! So I'll stop existing anyway." Seems like a carte blanche for hedonism if you ask me........ but no one did so it's just my thought on this intense thread...
 

HammerStone

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No offense intended here guys, but if you'd rather simply not exist then be with Father...well...I don't really know what I'd say to that, it's just not something I can comprehend all too well.
 

Lookin4wardtoHeaven

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Jul 17, 2007
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When I research this out in the Bible a little further, I came across some scriptures that got my attention. if I may ask, what do they exactly mean? Thanks for any help
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Psalms 68:2(KJV)2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.Psalms 37:10 (KJV)10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.Psalms 37:20 (KJV) 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.Psalms 37:38 (KJV) 38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.2 Peter 3:7 (KJV)7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.God:blessyou:
 
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Eternal Hell Fire, very unbiblical, best way to capture the hearts of people thirsting for an answer. To scare them into thinking there is everlasting punishment, so in reality people will come go Christ out of Fear(NOT REVERENCE) but Terror. Which is Sad
 

DrBubbaLove

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The abuse of any teaching is sad. But abuse does not indicate whether the teaching is false or true. I doubt many minds have ever been made up from fear alone, not in any sense that we could say the "fear" of Hell saved them. So in practice the abuse is not really effective anyway.BTW Denver I do not think any one here was claiming they would rather be annihilated than to be with God. The expression made was that a person deciding to reject God would rather be annihilated than spend eternity in Hell or maybe more specifically that given two options, annihilation or Eternal suffering, no one would choose the later.
 

Wayne Murray

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Jan 15, 2007
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This second death or lake of fire is like fat drippings that fall into the fire. Just a poof of smoke into non-existence.Psa.37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.In my mind what’s worse yet is no memory of you, no tears will be shed for you like you never existed.Rev.21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Jer 51:39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. Jer 51:57 And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts. perpetual H5769 ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm (o-lawm', o-lawm')From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.Vanishing point time out of mind past or future.
 

Beano

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Just a quickie What about lazarus in Luke 16 , he appears to be burning in hell and yet his body is not consumed.kevin
 

DrBubbaLove

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No more tears. God said it, it must be so. How that is possible we can only leave to God, with whom ALL things are possible.So no matter who goes and who does not go to Heaven, the knowledge that "someone" knon to us in this life might be absent cannot lead to tears. That must be true (as God said it) regardless of whether the person in question has been annihilated or is still "burning" in Hell.IOW no more tears is NOT an argument for or against eternal suffering. One thought is expressed that in Heaven our existence would be in the "now", not the past or future. And if that thought is combined with the idea that those burning in Hell are no longer anything we could see as the person known in this life (only "what remains") then there can be no thought in Heaven of that person as they are at that moment. That person no longer exists as anything we could recognize. At most and with the no tears theme, we could perhaps recall fond memories of that person from this life, but as that person is no longer among the LIVING, it would not be possible to miss them.
 

Wayne Murray

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Just a quickie What about lazarus in Luke 16 , he appears to be burning in hell and yet his body is not consumed.kevin
What you are referring to is a Parable and the separation from God by the gulf. The burning is shame and a desire to be on the other side. The water is the Spirit of God or truth. This is a place of holding till judgment.
 

followerofchrist

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What makes you think its a parable? Whenever their is a parable in the bible it usually say's the word parable to let us know whats going on. Luke 16 just tells us what happened, it say's nothing about it being a parable.
 

Wayne Murray

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What makes you think its a parable? Whenever their is a parable in the bible it usually say's the word parable to let us know whats going on. Luke 16 just tells us what happened, it say's nothing about it being a parable.
I know it is a Parable, not think so.It is not called a "parable", because it cites a notable example of the Pharisees tradition, which had been brought from Babylon.The name Lazarus, a common Talmudic contraction of the (Hebrew) Eleazar; but introduced by the Lord to point to His own closing comment in verse 31.Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Eleazar third son of Aaron. After the death of Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar was appointed chief over the principal Levites.To make a long story short, the levitical Priesthood was dead and scribes and the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses with traditions of men. But now through Christ the priesthood of Eleazar lives.