Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966

While I believe God desires for all to be saved, and is willingly that no shall perish,

to just stay on the doctrine of everyone is saved. and that is doctrine is damaging, to a persons understanding of what the bible says, cause you are only able to stay on fail safes if brought up something like hell or lake of fire, cause it's just something that is stayed away from, I noticed that ya know?

But I dont doubt you as a Christian believer or that you dont have the holy spirit there is just some problems with just staying where one feels safe.

All the best,
MAtthew

I too was taught, and believed, that Jesus was all loving while simultaneously torturing some unfortunate folks forever. I could never reconcile that doctrine but there it was, right in the Bible in Matthew 25:46, among others. Decades later I learned that the translations that I was reading were fraught with error and that that is how we got false doctrines such as forever punishment.

 

[MatthewG]

I too was taught, and believed, that Jesus was all loving while simultaneously torturing some unfortunate folks forever. I could never reconcile that doctrine but there it was, right in the Bible in Matthew 25:46, among others. Decades later I learned that the translations that I was reading were fraught with error and that that is how we got false doctrines such as forever punishment.

Cool, you are part of the body.

So, I am just not all that worried about one little passage ya know? There is so much more? Even the writer of hebrews talks about moving forward from those things,

Did you know that?

Hebrews 6:1-3 - Youngs Literal,
6 Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God,

2 of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during,

3 and this we will do, if God may permit,

Hebrews 6:
6 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds[a] and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

God be with you, Patrick
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

I aint calling anyone a devil here - the story and narrative of Jesus and his disciples is amazing to me.

It's interesting to me that Jesus said that one is a "devil", considering that most Christians believe that Jesus is worse than the devil in that the devil will be destroyed but Jesus will torture people FOREVER.

 

[MatthewG]

It's interesting to me that Jesus said that one is a "devil", considering that most Christians believe that Jesus is worse than the devil in that the devil will be destroyed but Jesus will torture people FOREVER.

That was a promise from God.

14 Then the Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this, you are cursed
more than all animals, domestic and wild.
You will crawl on your belly,
groveling in the dust as long as you live.
15 And I will cause hostility between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring.
He will strike[a] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

You gotta take that up with God my man. Not vain philosphy, or man made traditions that tell you other wise.

They are done away with now because that Age has closed.

Patrick, All the best,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

@Patrick1966

Sure there are some people out there that believe Jesus - is gonna torture people forever.

People who just read the bible without the spirit - in conjunction with studying - will only see words on a page.

All I see is that Jesus Christ talks about the resurrection of the unjust and the just and God has set up a place outside the kingdom, and inside the kingdom.

That is not horrible by any means... in fact loving.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

Cool, you are part of the body.

So, I am just not all that worried about one little passage ya know? There is so much more? Even the writer of hebrews talks about moving forward from those things,

Did you know that?

Hebrews 6:1-3 - Youngs Literal,
6 Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God,

2 of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during,

3 and this we will do, if God may permit,

Hebrews 6:
6 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds[a] and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

God be with you, Patrick
Matthew

Great and fitting scriptures my brother.

I mentioned in another thread that I avoid doctrinal discussions with people I meet in person, with a few notable exceptions. I stick to love God, demonstrate that love through obedience and love one another. I think most Christians will agree and go along with those foundational principles. Beyond that, however, risks division and so I avoid.

But here, Matthew, we discuss doctrine in detail. I admit that I am sometimes (often times?) a bit coarse about it but I think it's a part of discussion, for better or worse.

 

[Patrick1966]

You gotta take that up with God my man

Take what up? Do you think I espouse a doctrine that is not of God? Do you think that I espouse that there are no negative consequences for the wicked?

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966

Sure there are some people out there that believe Jesus - is gonna torture people forever.

People who just read the bible without the spirit - in conjunction with studying - will only see words on a page.

All I see is that Jesus Christ talks about the resurrection of the unjust and the just and God has set up a place outside the kingdom, and inside the kingdom.

That is not horrible by any means... in fact loving.

All the best,
Matthew

Amen. I share that Jesus is kind, loving, merciful, willing, and capable of saving ALL people. I provide scriptures to back it. And if they reject it I lovingly kick them in the balls!

 

[MatthewG]

@Patrick1966

Sorry, I don't get down with all that.

You can do whatever you want to.

All the best, I will just put you on ignore.

May God guide,
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

People should come to Christ out of love, not out of fear. Hellfire based evengelicism is fear based and usually spiritually abusive. It is good that people are moving away from it.

Indeed. Many ignore the parable of the lost sheep and other scriptures.

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966

Sorry, I don't get down with all that.

You can do whatever you want to.

All the best, I will just put you on ignore.

May God guide,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

You are just being trolling and rude, in my opinion.

But I don't have to really subject myself to you, praise be to God.

All the best Patrick,
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

You are just being trolling and rude, in my opinion.

But I don't have to really subject myself to you, praise be to God.

All the best Patrick,
Matthew

I'm just being lighthearted. I'll step away for now.

 

[MatthewG]

@Patrick1966,

saying violent things on here like that are not really nice; I just dont really jive with it.

Seems careless, and that is not good in my opinion nor does it come by the Spirit,

All the best,
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966,

saying violent things on here like that are not really nice; I just dont really jive with it.

Seems careless, and that is not good in my opinion nor does it come by the Spirit,

All the best,
Matthew

You're WAY over thinking what was intended to be a lighthearted joke.

 

[MatthewG]

You're WAY over thinking what was intended to be a lighthearted joke.

Patrick1966,

You lose trust in people when they don't interact with you properly is my issue, and I am sure a lot of people are leary of even myself on these things. I don't think I am wrong in saying that you were rude, and that was violent. Not to say that I haven't said some rude and violent things before, but what's the point in that type of thing I wonder sometimes... I don't like to be gaslighted either, to say I am just over thinking. I did not find it funny, though other people may. I just dont.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[Patrick1966]

I was actually making fun of myself.

 

[Patrick1966]

See what you did @St. SteVen! I blame you!

 

[dev553344]

People should come to Christ out of love, not out of fear. Hellfire based evengelicism is fear based and usually spiritually abusive. It is good that people are moving away from it.

Actual God uses both the love of his children and for those that truly know the power of God and sharp judgments fear. He put hell and heaven in the bible both. One is to fear and the other is to love. They are like a vector of away from and the other toward it.

 

[dev553344]

Little men's ideas and opinions change NO truth===eternal lake of fire is very real.

I believe they aren't trying to change truth, just what people believe. We all have our own bible to read and the truth is in it, regardless of what false teachers may bring.