Hell's Population Clock

[Webers_Home]

Where, or to what, according to Jesus, does the wide road lead to that
the majority are heading along on?

According to Mtt 7:13, the wide road leads to destruction.

The koiné Greek word for "destruction" is from apoleia (ap-o'-li-a) which
basically means ruin or loss. Apoleia is a bit ambiguous. It's variously
translated waste, lost, die, perish, damnable, and perdition. So you have
some choices.

Here's a terrifying prophecy in the Old Testament that might shed some light
on Matt 7:13.

†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.

A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4
inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit-- hot
enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create
a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms
that like it even warmer. Fortunately the bodies of the lost will be dead
so they won't feel the worms at work on their remains.

Curiously; the roasting corpses, infested with their fire-proof worms, will be
open to the public like the skeletal remains of prehistoric critters on display in
the museum at La Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles. Pretty ghastly.

Buen Camino
/

 

[brakelite]

According to Mtt 7:13, the wide road leads to destruction.

The koiné Greek word for "destruction" is from apoleia (ap-o'-li-a) which
basically means ruin or loss. Apoleia is a bit ambiguous. It's variously
translated waste, lost, die, perish, damnable, and perdition. So you have
some choices.

Here's a terrifying prophecy in the Old Testament that might shed some light
on Matt 7:13.

†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.

A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4
inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit-- hot
enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create
a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms
that like it even warmer. Fortunately the bodies of the lost will be dead
so they won't feel the worms at work on their remains.

Curiously; the roasting corpses, infested with their fire-proof worms, will be
open to the public like the skeletal remains of prehistoric critters on display in
the museum at La Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles. Pretty ghastly.

Buen Camino
/

It is a waste of time and effort debating linguistics, grammar, and semantics with you when what I said previously cannot be debated. I quote what I said....

Jesus took upon Himself the full payment for our sin. He paid the full redemptive price for our transgression. Jesus was the full propitiation. No Christian can deny this. No Christian would dare to deny this. If a Christian would dare to do so, he is then admitting that he must pay a portion of the price himself. THis is not the Christian gospel. It is a false pagan concept inherited into the papal apostasy and bequeathed to Protestantism who have yet to fully "come out of her". I repeat, Jesus did indeed pay the full redemptive price for our transgression. And what was that price? The wages of sin is death! Nothing more, nothing less. Death! Eternal and never ending. No hope, no resurrection.

As to ypur text from Isaiah, I do believe you need to find an alternative understanding for this. If this is as you seem to think, that it is in the context of the new earth, then quite frankly I am not sure if I want to be there. Billions of dead bodies littering the ground, with eternal worms eating them??? This is the earth made new? The present polluted corrupted earth recreated???? I don't think so.

 

[Webers_Home]

Billions of dead bodies littering the ground, with eternal worms eating
them???

I seriously doubt that Yhvh intends to leave the dead lying around as litter
as that would not only be unsafe and unsanitary; but also an environmental
hazard. It's far more likely they will be containerized and quarantined like the
remains of the prehistoric critters on display at the La Brea Tar Pits museum
in Los Angeles. They're behind glass to prevent visitors from coming in contact
with them-- at least they were the last time I was there in the decade of the
1980's.


Buen Camino
/

 

[brakelite]

I seriously doubt that Yhvh intends to leave the dead lying around as litter
as that would not only be unsafe and unsanitary; but also an environmental
hazard. It's far more likely they will be containerized and quarantined like the
remains of the prehistoric critters on display at the La Brea Tar Pits museum
in Los Angeles. They're behind glass to prevent visitors from coming in contact
with them-- at least they were the last time I was there in the decade of the
1980's.


Buen Camino
/

So on top of being a major league torturer, God is now the Curator of His own museum where He displays the remains of the wicked for the entertainment of the saved?
"Oh look, that's Adolf Hitler, and oooh look, Pol Pot, and hey look, look, here is Judas.....and ummm, oh dear, there's my auntie Gracie".
And you would have us believe that this is a part of the joys of heaven? And do you honestly believe that God intends to immortalise sin and sinners?

And again, "the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life." Life and death are opposites. Death is not life at another address.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
When people waken at night within a burning home, and the hallways are
obscured by smoke and fire: at that moment, all things-- bank accounts,
cars, clothing, mementos, charge cards, pets, taxes, sex, careers, incomes,
Obama care, immigration reform, who wins the California primary Dancing
With The Stars, who's at fault for Benghazi, the stars in their courses, or
who's playing in the Super Bowl; whatever --pale in comparison to the
importance of finding a way out before it's too late.

When you're facing imminent death like that; with the flames of hell already
licking around your naked legs; you'd better hope to God that your spiritual
leaders haven't steered you down the wrong road because there will be no
time to seek a second opinion.

Pop Clock Update: 726 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 39,944,600 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

And you would have us believe that this is a part of the joys of heaven

Isa 66:22-24 looks to me like the earth rather than heaven. It's my guess
that the ghastly scene described in posts #121 and #123 is meant to be a
deterrent so that people in Messiah's kingdom will think twice before daring
to defy his wishes.


Buen Camino
/

 

[brakelite]

.




Isa 66:22-24 looks to me like the earth rather than heaven. It's my guess
that the ghastly scene described in posts #121 and #123 is meant to be a
deterrent so that people in Messiah's kingdom will think twice before daring
to defy his wishes.


Buen Camino/

Quite right. Isaiah 66 is a reference to the new earth after the recreation. It will be our home...the new Jerusalem will be there and the earth will be the capital of the universe with God reigning in person. And the only reason any of us will be there will be because Jesus paid the full price of our redemption. And those who do not accept Him will have to pay that price themselves. They die the second death. This is the eternal punishment. Death. A death from which there is no resurrection. NO eternal torment. No never ending suffering. No ongoing punishing that never satisfies God's sense of justice. God's justice was met at the cross. Jesus died that we might live. He did not suffer in an eternally burning hell that we might live. I cannot stress this enough.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Webers_Home]

Isaiah 66 is a reference to the new earth after the recreation.

Well; although a new earth is predicted in the 66th chapter of Isaiah; I really
don't think 66:22-24 pertains to it. I rather think the entire 66th chapter
pertains to the current earth in agreement with the 14th chapter of
Zechariah, et al.

You know, I can understand the number of Jews who don't believe Christ is
returning some day to rule the world with an iron fist; but what I don't
understand is the number of Christians who neither know it nor believe it.
Well; suffice to say; his first day on the job will be the last for many.

†. Matt 13:40-42 . . As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it
will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and
they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do
evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping
and gnashing of teeth.

I believe the term "end of the age" refers to the age in which people today are
living right now; scheduled to terminate with Christ's return, just as the
antediluvian age terminated with the Flood. While the cat's away the mice do
play; but play-day is winding down. Out ahead; the world is going to watch
in shock and awe as the man they've known all their lives as the sweet little
babe away in a manger suddenly returns as no more Mr. NiceGuy.

"You shall break them with a rod of iron; you shall dash them to pieces like a
potter's vessel." (Ps 2:9)


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Gen 6:5 . .And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually.

It's freaky to contemplate that the Bible's God has a way to eavesdrop on
not only one's mental processes but also one's heart processes; for it's out
of man's heart that his thoughts originate.

†. Matt 15:18-19 . . For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts

So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your
heart works that defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of
hoodwinking his own mind.

†. Jer 17:9 . . The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked.
Who really knows how bad it is?

There is a part of us that psychology labels the subconscious; which in
Freud's opinion is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or
desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the
mechanism of psychological repression. However, the contents do not
necessarily have to be solely negative.

In the psychoanalytic view, the subconscious is a force that can only be
recognized by its effects-- in other words: your mind's thoughts can be
construed not as replicas of your hearts thoughts; but rather, as symptoms
of your heart's thoughts.

God is able to de-repress the repressed contents of man's sub conscience
and submit them as evidence in the prosecution's case against the accused.
That means He will be confronting people with things that they never before
really knew about themselves; and that's why I sometimes say only a fool
would take their chances with the Bible's God. They have no clue the fecal
storm they're walking into.

Pop Clock Update: 731 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 39,944,600 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Hashe]

Death can mean separation, not just the opposite of life.
On the day Adam and Eve sinned, they 'died', but they didn't lose life.
They were separated from God.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Q: Since God created us the way we are; then He is ultimately responsible
for our conduct; right?

A: Some years ago I went into a music store in San Diego and noticed that
one of the store's glass display cases contained a rather large variety of
curious bottles. So I asked the clerk what they were. He said they were
bongs. "You mean for smoking dope?" I asked. He replied "Yes; that is their
purpose." So I responded "But isn't dope illegal?" He replied "Yes, dope is
illegal, however we don't sell dope; we only sell the means to smoke it." You
see; the responsibility for smoking dope was on the end-users of bongs
rather than upon the sellers of bongs.

In a similar incident, I went into an electronics store to purchase a mobile
CB radio and noticed an array of devices in the display case that I didn't
recognize. The clerk told me they were linear amplifiers; which, he said, are
devices for boosting a standard 5-watt CB's signal strength. I asked the clerk
if that was legal. He said no, it isn't legal to boost the standard signal.
However, he said, it isn't illegal to own equipment with the capability to do
so. In other words; the law placed the responsibility for boosting CB signals
on the end-user of linear amplifiers rather than the sellers of linear
amplifiers.

What I'm getting at is: God created humanity with the capability to make
bad choices. But at the same time, He created humanity with the capability
to make good choices too. In the incident involving the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil; Adam chose poorly. Does it make sense to
blame God for Adam's choice? No. But you see: so-called "product liability"
is a convenient way of blaming others for our own failings. In other words:
product liability's defenders insist that the availability of things like forbidden
fruit, bongs, and linear amplifiers constitutes entrapment. So these days
instead of saying "The devil made me do it; therefore my conduct is his
fault" now people say "I was provided the means to do it; therefore my
conduct is the provider's fault."

But you see; a smart man can't be entrapped; viz: a smart man won't test
the limits, nor push his luck, nor tempt fate; viz: he won't eat forbidden
fruit, smoke dope, nor boost his CB radio's output above the legal limits.
That's what fools do; and it serves them right when they go down.

Pop Clock Update: 736 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,550,656 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Floyd]

.
Q: Since God created us the way we are; then He is ultimately responsible
for our conduct; right?

A: Some years ago I went into a music store in San Diego and noticed that
one of the store's glass display cases contained a rather large variety of
curious bottles. So I asked the clerk what they were. He said they were
bongs. "You mean for smoking dope?" I asked. He replied "Yes; that is their
purpose." So I responded "But isn't dope illegal?" He replied "Yes, dope is
illegal, however we don't sell dope; we only sell the means to smoke it." You
see; the responsibility for smoking dope was on the end-users of bongs
rather than upon the sellers of bongs.

In a similar incident, I went into an electronics store to purchase a mobile
CB radio and noticed an array of devices in the display case that I didn't
recognize. The clerk told me they were linear amplifiers; which, he said, are
devices for boosting a standard 5-watt CB's signal strength. I asked the clerk
if that was legal. He said no, it isn't legal to boost the standard signal.
However, he said, it isn't illegal to own equipment with the capability to do
so. In other words; the law placed the responsibility for boosting CB signals
on the end-user of linear amplifiers rather than the sellers of linear
amplifiers.

What I'm getting at is: God created humanity with the capability to make
bad choices. But at the same time, He created humanity with the capability
to make good choices too. In the incident involving the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil; Adam chose poorly. Does it make sense to
blame God for Adam's choice? No. But you see: so-called "product liability"
is a convenient way of blaming others for our own failings. In other words:
product liability's defenders insist that the availability of things like forbidden
fruit, bongs, and linear amplifiers constitutes entrapment. So these days
instead of saying "The devil made me do it; therefore my conduct is his
fault" now people say "I was provided the means to do it; therefore my
conduct is the provider's fault."

But you see; a smart man can't be entrapped; viz: a smart man won't test
the limits, nor push his luck, nor tempt fate; viz: he won't eat forbidden
fruit, smoke dope, nor boost his CB radio's output above the legal limits.
That's what fools do; and it serves them right when they go down.

Pop Clock Update: 736 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,550,656 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

Free will: (Separate study)

Floyd.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Luke 12:15-20 . . A man's life does not consist in the abundance of his
possessions. And he told them this parable:

. . .The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. He thought to
himself: What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops. Then he said:
This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and
there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself; You have
plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and
be merry.

. . . But God said to him: You fool! This very night your life will be demanded
from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?

That is one of the futilities of success in this world. Everybody knows it, but
moguls like Donald Trump and Warren Buffet never seem to take it to heart
until they've got one foot in the grave.

I once heard a story about a very wealthy man who died. His surviving
relatives were all called to the reading of the man's will while the media
waited outside. When the reading was over, the media asked the man's kin
how much he left. They replied: He left it all.

Yes, of course he left it all; even the clothing he wore to his own funeral. The
paintings of Gustave Doré, illustrating portions of Dante's Inferno, depict lost
souls 100% stark naked-- with nary a stitch --as they should be because no
doubt they are.

What would you be willing to pay and/or trade in order to cheat death?

†. Matt 16:26-27 . . For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole
world, and lose his own soul? What shall a man give in exchange for his
soul?

That question essentially asks: Is it possible to either purchase, or barter, an
exemption from death? The answer is NO as there are no exemptions
available at this time: so rich men like Donald Trump and Warren Buffet
have no advantage in that respect over illegal aliens sneaking into Arizona
when it comes time to die.

†. Ecc 2:14-16 . .The wise man has eyes in his head, while the fool walks in
the darkness; but I came to realize that the same fate overtakes them both.
Then I thought in my heart: The fate of the fool will overtake me also. What
then do I gain by being wise?

. . . For the wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered; in days to
come both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the wise man too must die.

Pop Clock Update: 741 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,826,136 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in the statements below. It's
in the present tense rather than future; indicating that believers have
eternal life right now-- no delay and no waiting period.

†. John 3:36 . .He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

†. John 5:24 . .I assure you, those who heed my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already transferred from death into life.

†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

†. 1John 5:13 . .These things I have written to you who believe in the name
of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

Q: If it's true that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay and no
waiting period --then why do they still die like everybody else?

A: Because eternal life isn't the same as immortality. For example: Jesus
had eternal life.

†. John 5:26 . . For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in himself,

But was Jesus immortal? No; his crucifixion easily removes all doubt as to
that aspect of his existence.

Q: Then what is eternal life if not immortality?

A: There's human life; there's fish life; there's bird life; there's plant life, and
there's beast and bug life. Those are all natural, created forms of life.
Eternal life isn't that kind of life; no, it's a supernatural kind of life.

†. 1John 1:1-2 . . What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what
we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled,
concerning the word of life-- and the life was manifested, and we have seen
and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the
Father and was manifested to us.

Pop Clock Update: 744 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,991,424 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Prv 1:24-33 . . I called you so often, but you didn't come. I reached out
to you, but you paid no attention. You ignored my advice and rejected the
correction I offered. So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you
when disaster overtakes you-- when calamity overcomes you like a storm,
when you are engulfed by trouble, and when anguish and distress
overwhelm you.

. . . I will not answer when they cry for help. Even though they anxiously
search for me, they will not find me. For they hated knowledge and chose
not to fear The Lord. They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I
corrected them. That is why they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own
way. They must experience the full terror of the path they have chosen. For
they are simpletons who turn away from me-- to death. They are fools, and
their own complacency will destroy them. But all who listen to me will live in
peace and safety, unafraid of harm.

†. Prv 6:10-11 . . A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands
to sleep— so shall your poverty come on you like a prowler, and your
privation like an armed man.

Pop Clock Update: 750 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,322,000 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Many of the Lord's parables are so realistic, and depict such a variety of
human experiences, that I used to wonder how a young man who never
went to school, and lived in the same small town all his life prior to going on
the road as an itinerant preacher, could have such a volume of realistic short
stories all prepared and ready to go.

Well, one day it hit me. Duh. The Lord was a prophet: a holy man micro
managed by a higher power. He neither authored nor composed a single one
of the parables: they were his master's handiwork all along.

†. John 3:34 . . He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is upon him without
measure or limit.

†. John 7:17 . . If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I
speak these things.

†. John 8:38 . . I speak that which I have seen with my Father

†. John 12:49 . . For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent
me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should
speak.

†. John 12:50 . . Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto
me, so I speak.

†. John 14:10 . .The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but
the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Well! that certainly throws a whole different light on the parables; and here's
why:

I am fully persuaded that the Bible's God never lies and always tells the
truth. In other words; I sincerely believe Jesus' master crafted parables from
the archive of records that He's keeping in heaven on every soul who ever
lived. The Bible's God knows all, He sees all, and He hears all; even people's
secret thoughts. No wonder the Lord's parables are so life-like! it's because
they're taken from real life. In other words: there's nothing fictitious in any
of the parables. When somebody reads a parable; they're actually reading
history rather than make-believe. That's a pretty exiting thought.

So why did I make such an issue out of the origin of the Lord's parables?
Answer: because anti burning-in-hell people insist that the disturbing
narrative at Luke 16:19-31 is a fable with no basis in reality whatsoever. But
the impeccable truthfulness of the Lord's master is what makes that
narrative all the more terrifying. Unless somebody can prove that the Lord's
master is a tale spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative was
drawn from real-life archives.

Another thing: there are three real-life persons named in that story--
Abraham, Lazarus, and Moses. I just don't think the Lord's master would
make up a whopper about those three real-life people and thereby give the
Lord's audience the wrong impression about them. In point of fact, if He
were to do that; then nobody's reputation would be safe in His hands.

I highly recommend accepting Luke 16:19-31 as a true story if only to
protect one's self from falling into the temptation of insinuating that the
Lord's master is a dishonest person of questionable integrity who can't be
trusted to tell the truth about people.

†. 1John 5:10 . . Anyone who disbelieves God has made him out to be a liar.

Pop Clock Update: 753 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,487,288 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[shturt678]

.

Many of the Lord's parables are so realistic, and depict such a variety of
human experiences, that I used to wonder how a young man who never
went to school, and lived in the same small town all his life prior to going on
the road as an itinerant preacher, could have such a volume of realistic short
stories all prepared and ready to go.

Well, one day it hit me. Duh. The Lord was a prophet: a holy man micro
managed by a higher power. He neither authored nor composed a single one
of the parables: they were his master's handiwork all along.

†. John 3:34 . . He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is upon him without
measure or limit.

†. John 7:17 . . If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I
speak these things.

†. John 8:38 . . I speak that which I have seen with my Father

†. John 12:49 . . For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent
me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should
speak.

†. John 12:50 . . Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto
me, so I speak.

†. John 14:10 . .The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but
the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Well! that certainly throws a whole different light on the parables; and here's
why:

I am fully persuaded that the Bible's God never lies and always tells the
truth. In other words; I sincerely believe Jesus' master crafted parables from
the archive of records that He's keeping in heaven on every soul who ever
lived. The Bible's God knows all, He sees all, and He hears all; even people's
secret thoughts. No wonder the Lord's parables are so life-like! it's because
they're taken from real life. In other words: there's nothing fictitious in any
of the parables. When somebody reads a parable; they're actually reading
history rather than make-believe. That's a pretty exiting thought.

So why did I make such an issue out of the origin of the Lord's parables?
Answer: because anti burning-in-hell people insist that the disturbing
narrative at Luke 16:19-31 is a fable with no basis in reality whatsoever. But
the impeccable truthfulness of the Lord's master is what makes that
narrative all the more terrifying. Unless somebody can prove that the Lord's
master is a tale spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative was
drawn from real-life archives.

Another thing: there are three real-life persons named in that story--
Abraham, Lazarus, and Moses. I just don't think the Lord's master would
make up a whopper about those three real-life people and thereby give the
Lord's audience the wrong impression about them. In point of fact, if He
were to do that; then nobody's reputation would be safe in His hands.

I highly recommend accepting Luke 16:19-31 as a true story if only to
protect one's self from falling into the temptation of insinuating that the
Lord's master is a dishonest person of questionable integrity who can't be
trusted to tell the truth about people.

†. 1John 5:10 . . Anyone who disbelieves God has made him out to be a liar.

Pop Clock Update: 753 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,487,288 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino

Thank you for caring!

One thing we can take to the bank and it will clear without a doubt, ie, Our Lord God-man Jesus Christ authored (Matthew only penned) the supreme concept in the N.T. - the parables in Matthew regarding the "KINGDOM OF GOD."

Old Jack

btw Hell is full, and no more room for me, ie, thank you Jesus!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The wrath of God is interesting. For example:

†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath
and fierce anger

The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is `ebrah (eb-raw') which
indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't
weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's punishing people at the Great
White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated
with extreme prejudice; viz: the wrath of God will be furious against them.
(cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)

Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.

"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings

†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation

"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation.
"fiery" speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that
they're actually red in the face.

There are people out there in cyberspace who have been so brain-washed by
heresy, greeting cards, religious art, Broadway plays, Christmas carols, and
Hollywood movies and nativity scenes that they have no concept of the
magnitude of the fecal storm they're headed into.

An interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it— none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.

†. John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.

†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.

†. Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Pop Clock Update: 753 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,487,288 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[shturt678]

Only a little fine tuning: God's wrath as in today's reality in light of IIThess.2:10b for those that lack an agape for the Truth: His inevitable reaction of His righteousness, and holiness against all sin and unbelief, ie, those that bumped into "truth" again lacking an agape of that "truth" from heaven's view.

Old Jack

btw God nowhere states what happens to those that never bump into enough "truth" that can redound one's salvation?

 

[brakelite]

Wondering if any advocate for eternal torment has an asnwer to this quote from an earlier post....

Jesus took upon Himself the full payment for our sin. He paid the full redemptive price for our transgression. Jesus was the full propitiation. No Christian can deny this. No Christian would dare to deny this. If a Christian would dare to do so, he is then admitting that he must pay a portion of the price himself. This is not the Christian gospel. It is a false pagan concept inherited into the papal apostasy and bequeathed to Protestantism who have yet to fully "come out of her". I repeat, Jesus did indeed pay the full redemptive price for our transgression. And what was that price? The wages of sin is death! Nothing more, nothing less. Death! Eternal and never ending. No hope, no resurrection.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Re 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mal. 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Acts 9:1-6 . . . Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats
against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest and asked him for
letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who
belonged to The Way, whether men or women, he might take them as
prisoners to Jerusalem

. . . As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven
flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him:
Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Who are you, sir? Saul asked. I am
Jesus, whom you are persecuting; he replied. Now get up and go into the
city, and you will be told what you must do.

Saul was very fortunate. With that hard-core Jewish attitude of his, he would
have been lost for sure had not Christ imposed upon his privacy with a close
encounter of a third kind.

The interesting thing about Saul was his spiritual condition. He wasn't an
Atheist; yet he hated Christians just as passionately as if he were an Atheist.
But if perchance you're an Atheist reading this, don't get your hopes up
expecting that maybe you too will be visited by a close encounter of a third
kind with Christ. God had a special purpose in mind with Saul's conversion -
there's no logical basis for assuming He has a similar purpose in mind for
you.

Pop Clock Update: 759 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,817,864 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/