Hell's Population Clock

[shturt678]

Wondering if any advocate for eternal torment has an asnwer to this quote from an earlier post....

Jesus took upon Himself the full payment for our sin. He paid the full redemptive price for our transgression. Jesus was the full propitiation. No Christian can deny this. No Christian would dare to deny this. If a Christian would dare to do so, he is then admitting that he must pay a portion of the price himself. This is not the Christian gospel. It is a false pagan concept inherited into the papal apostasy and bequeathed to Protestantism who have yet to fully "come out of her". I repeat, Jesus did indeed pay the full redemptive price for our transgression. And what was that price? The wages of sin is death! Nothing more, nothing less. Death! Eternal and never ending. No hope, no resurrection.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Re 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mal. 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Thank you for your caring again!

Rev.20:14, "And the death and the hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This death is the second one, the lake of fire." First and foremost "all in the tombs" will rise with their new bodies on the last day (Jn.5:28, 29). Alll wil be resurrected with new bodies, ie, the good and the bad one time to live one of two places for ever and ever.

Regarding Rev.20:14, the only difficulty is that, when hades means hell (which it does), and the lake of fire also means hell, we may wonder how the one can "be thrown" into the other, ie, the answer:

"This death" is the second death of course, (namely) "the lake of the fire", "This death" = the throwing of the two companions, death and hades, into the lake of fire - Rev.20:10, "...and they shall be tormented by and by night for the eons of the eons." Mk.9:43-48, ie, tormented inwardly and outwardly forever and ever - not a pretty sight.

Old Jack in pain already just thinking about it.

 

[Webers_Home]

Regarding Rev 20:14, the only difficulty is that, when hades means hell
(which it does), and the lake of fire also means hell, we may wonder how
the one can "be thrown" into the other

The koiné Greek word haides (hah'-dace) is somewhat ambiguous. The rich
man of Luke 16:19-31 went to haides; but then according to Acts 2:25-32
Jesus went to haides too. The rich man's haides was fiery and painful (Luke
16:24), while Jesus' haides was quite comfortable (Luke 23:43). The reason
for the apparent discrepancy is that haides is an afterlife containment where
all the dead went prior to Jesus' death and resurrection; both the good dead
and the bad dead. The good and the bad are kept isolated from each other by
means of an impassible barrier. (Luke 16:26)

†. Rev 20:14 . . And death and haides were thrown into the lake of fire.

Death is thrown into the lake of fire by means of throwing in everything and
everybody that is in any way associated with death; so that every form of
death imaginable will be quarantined in one single location; sort of like a leper
colony.


Buen Camino
/

 

[shturt678]

The koiné Greek word haides (hah'-dace) is somewhat ambiguous. The rich
man of Luke 16:19-31 went to haides; but then according to Acts 2:25-32
Jesus went to haides too. The rich man's haides was fiery and painful (Luke
16:24), while Jesus' haides was quite comfortable (Luke 23:43). The reason
for the apparent discrepancy is that haides is an afterlife containment where

all the dead went prior to Jesus' death and resurrection; both the good dead
and the bad dead. The good and the bad are kept isolated from each other by
means of an impassible barrier. (Luke 16:26)

†. Rev 20:14 . . And death and haides were thrown into the lake of fire.

Death is thrown into the lake of fire by means of throwing in everything and
everybody that is in any way associated with death; so that every form of
death imaginable will be quarantined in one single location; sort of like a leper
colony.


Buen Camino
/

Thank you again for caring, and your response!

A little less ambiguous, or more? Hell = hades = Gehenna = Lake of the fire (both Gehenna & the "Lake" are Jewish terms for where the body and soul cast into hell at the final judgment); Rev.20:10 (Matt.5:22; 10:28) = Rev.20:14 Lake of the fire = Tartarus (IIPet.2:4) = Sheol in the narrow sense - note I stated "narrow" sense.

Simply, the bottom line, from Adam forward, after each passes on, all awoke in heaven (bliss) or hell (tormented) awaiting the "1" future bodily resurrection, ie, Jn.5:28, 29, "all" resurrect "1" time.

Old Jack waiting to pass, ie, old age thing.

 

[Webers_Home]

Hell = hades = Gehenna

There are two koiné Greek words in the New Testament commonly
translated hell.

One is haides (hah'-dace). An example of its use is located at Luke
16:19-31. The thing to note about haides is that the rich man's corpse
didn't accompany him there.

The other Greek word is geena (gheh'-en-nah). Examples of its use are
located at Mark 9:43-48 and Matt 10:28. Geena serves as not only a
method for carrying out death sentences; but also as habitat for a rather
curious species of fire-proof worm.

†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.

Buen Camino
/

 

[brakelite]

Is anyone willing to engage this most important foundational principle of Christendom....did Jesus pay the full price of our redemption....or not....and what was that price?

 

[Webers_Home]

-
I once heard President Obama reply to criticism with the words "right back
atcha" viz: he didn't deny the truth of the criticism, but instead employed
the age-old tactic of accusing his critic of the very same things; which, I
guess in his mind; somehow mitigated his own culpability; but the honorable
response would have been for him to man-up and admit his conduct was
unbecoming rather than stoop to recriminations.

It's very common for people to respond to criticism the same way Mr.
Obama did. It's all the same as saying "Who are you to talk?". Well;
regardless of who someone is to talk, if the criticism is true; then it stands;
viz: recriminations are futile. All they do is pull someone down with you so
you don't go down alone.

I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at
the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see
people in heaven who they know to be guilty of the very same things for
which they are being sentenced to hell.

Human nature is funny. If I criticize a tree, it doesn't react. If I criticize a
spider; it doesn't react. If I criticize a Guinea pig, it doesn't react. If I
criticize a parakeet, it doesn't react. But if I criticize a homo sapiens; it
becomes defensive. It's a curious behavior.

So; how might I describe the human spirit? I think I could accurately
describe it as both judgmental and defensive.

†. Rom 2:15 . .Their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one
another.

Pop Clock Update: 766 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 42,203,536 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[JoJoRoss]

Webers_Home,



Jesus quotes Isaiah 66 in his ministry. Here is the Isaiah quote:

Isaiah 66
24 "Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

Alright, so the first question is, are the "corpses" literal or figurative/spiritual? First, please note the phrase "corpses of the men" and "transgressed against me." It reminds me of "to be carnally minded is death" and "the wages of sin is death." When we fast-forward to Jesus' ministry we see his reference here:

Mark 9
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into GEHENNA fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 50Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Notice that Jesus has added some information to Isaiah 66. He adds the part about GEHENNA. We know he is speaking spiritually here too, because we know he does not expect people to literally cut out their feet and eyes. So the idea of "corpses" is figurative. Isaiah is talking about spiritual death.



Let's go to James 3

James 3
5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by GEHENNA.

James is connecting the fire of Gehenna to sin itself, the behavior of those who follow the carnal mind, which is death. Sin that seems small, like gossip, can lead to a full fledged "forest set aflame" of sinfulness that affects the "course of our nature." Gehenna is a spiritual indication of destruction in sin.

So back to Isaiah 66:

Isaiah 66
20 Then they shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the Lord, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the Lord, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the Lord.

So now we have reference in Isaiah to a HIGH PLACE (Zion) and a LOW PLACE (valley of Hinnom), two spiritual symbols.

Isaiah 66, from what I see in scripture, is a prophecy about the establishment of New Jerusalem (the church) in contrast to spiritual Gehenna. I do not believe it is talking about the salvation of all mankind, but about the means that God will accomplish the salvation of all mankind.

In my assessment, Isaiah 66 is talking about the establishment of New Jerusalem, referenced in Revelation 21 and 22. There are some in the world called "the Sons of God" who will be revealed to the world and all creation will come into their glorious liberty. However, before that time, there is a valley and a mountain, symbolizing the existence of sin, and the righteousness of the saints, who stand on the mountain and are taken for priests and for Levites.

Peter said, "for you (church) are a royal priesthood."

For now, there are some within New Jerusalem and some outside, who are involved in the spiritual fire of Gehenna (sinfulness), who will be invited UP TO spiritual Mt. ZION - inside the city - to partake of the spiritual water of life. This is a testament, in my opinion, that the last chapter of a book in the Bible does not mean it's the end of God's plan, just as how Revelation 22 leaves it with the gates open, and outside there are people in their spiritual fire being invited inside.

New Jerusalem is the means by which God makes all things new. The translation does not say that the fire will NEVER die, but will not die. If you think about the Prodigal Son, when he was spending his inheritance on sinful living, his fire did not die....while he was unrepentant. But it did bring him to his knees eventually.

Gods Peace,
JoJo

 

[Floyd]

The koiné Greek word haides (hah'-dace) is somewhat ambiguous. The rich
man of Luke 16:19-31 went to haides; but then according to Acts 2:25-32
Jesus went to haides too. The rich man's haides was fiery and painful (Luke
16:24), while Jesus' haides was quite comfortable (Luke 23:43). The reason
for the apparent discrepancy is that haides is an afterlife containment where
all the dead went prior to Jesus' death and resurrection; both the good dead
and the bad dead. The good and the bad are kept isolated from each other by
means of an impassible barrier. (Luke 16:26)

†. Rev 20:14 . . And death and haides were thrown into the lake of fire.

Death is thrown into the lake of fire by means of throwing in everything and
everybody that is in any way associated with death; so that every form of
death imaginable will be quarantined in one single location; sort of like a leper
colony.


Buen Camino
/

See; Lazarus And The Rich Man

Floyd.

 

[JoJoRoss]

[SIZE=medium]Is anyone willing to engage this most important foundational principle of Christendom....did Jesus pay the full price of our redemption....or not....and what was that price?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Brakelite,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yes he did:[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]1 John 2:2-[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]At the highest price: Eph 1:7-[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt] Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

 

[brakelite]

[SIZE=14pt]Brakelite,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yes he did:[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]1 John 2:2-[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]At the highest price: Eph 1:7-[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt] Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

Great! Thankyou, at last some-one willing to tackle this question, and yes, I absolutely agree with you. Jesus most assuredly paid the full price of our redemption. And that price was the very life of the Son of God. A higher price no-one could possibly pay, nor different price. Yet it seems the whole of Christendom has set a different price upon our redemption. Whereas the Bible is replete from Genesis to Revelation with an abundance of texts proclaiming loud and clear that the wages of sin is death, and that Jesus has paid that price on our behalf; upon that there is very little debate. But then it is taught from Christian pulpits the world over that if one was to reject the salvation offered through Christ, the wages of sin all of a sudden takes an about turn and becomes the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches. We are taught, and often times with the most colorful and intense language as previously presented in this very thread, that Satan was right after all. You shall not surely die, but will be as God and live eternally.

 

[JoJoRoss]

But then it is taught from Christian pulpits the world over that if one was to reject the salvation offered through Christ, the wages of sin all of a sudden takes an about turn and becomes the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches. We are taught, and often times with the most colorful and intense language as previously presented in this very thread, that Satan was right after all. You shall not surely die, but will be as God and live eternally.

[SIZE=14pt]Brakelite,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The wages of sin is death. Bible truth indeed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Like you said, Christ ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Jesus most assuredly paid the full price of our redemption’. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yes He did pay the price for you and me. But did you not read the rest of 1 John 2:2? And not only OURS but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Christ died for sin for everyone past, future, present. It will be His firstfruits that will be first-the sons of God, and then they will be with God judging the world at the White throne judgment. (1 Cor 6:1-3, James 1:18, Rev, 14:4).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan did lie indeed. But this does not mean that Satan cannot mix truth with his lies, and that when he told Adam and Eve that they would be as gods knowing good and evil, he was telling the truth: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil[/SIZE].
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[SIZE=14pt]And when he told Christ “All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it”, he was telling the Truth:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yet God has retained the power of the throne even as He has delivered the kingdoms of this present evil world over to that old serpent the devil and Satan, who is also called ‘a great red dragon’.

Here is the extent of Satan’s dominion which God has given him:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What happens to sin now that Jesus died on the cross after we die?:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 6:7- For one who has died has been set free from sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This is both spiritually and physically. We all must die with Jesus do live with him. In this life it is the sons of God that die and live with him. The sons of God will help bring the rest of creation to God in the end:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]For the creation was subjected to futility[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (according to Romans 1, by God himself), not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Let’s teach this shall we:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]1 Tim 4:10-11- For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] These things command and teach.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the Name of Jesus the Savior of all men,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

 

[Floyd]

[SIZE=14pt]Brakelite,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The wages of sin is death. Bible truth indeed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Like you said, Christ ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Jesus most assuredly paid the full price of our redemption’. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yes He did pay the price for you and me. But did you not read the rest of 1 John 2:2? And not only OURS but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Christ died for sin for everyone past, future, present. It will be His firstfruits that will be first-the sons of God, and then they will be with God judging the world at the White throne judgment. (1 Cor 6:1-3, James 1:18, Rev, 14:4).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan did lie indeed. But this does not mean that Satan cannot mix truth with his lies, and that when he told Adam and Eve that they would be as gods knowing good and evil, he was telling the truth: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil[/SIZE].
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[SIZE=14pt]And when he told Christ “All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it”, he was telling the Truth:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yet God has retained the power of the throne even as He has delivered the kingdoms of this present evil world over to that old serpent the devil and Satan, who is also called ‘a great red dragon’.

Here is the extent of Satan’s dominion which God has given him:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What happens to sin now that Jesus died on the cross after we die?:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 6:7- For one who has died has been set free from sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This is both spiritually and physically. We all must die with Jesus do live with him. In this life it is the sons of God that die and live with him. The sons of God will help bring the rest of creation to God in the end:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]For the creation was subjected to futility[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (according to Romans 1, by God himself), not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Let’s teach this shall we:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]1 Tim 4:10-11- For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] These things command and teach.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the Name of Jesus the Savior of all men,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

Interesting JoJo; you quote Scripture well, and then deny it?
You have free will!
Use it to correct your aberrant teaching; it goes against our Lord's!
Floyd.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
According to Siddhartha Gautama, there is no personal "soul" that continues
to exist beyond the demise of one's organic body; viz: one's original self
no longer exists after death.

Q: So then in Buddhist rebirth; what is reborn if not the person?

A: Buddhist rebirth is not a resurrection; but rather; a rearrangement of the
karmic matter that was once a particular individual.

Simply put, karmic matter is like the pieces and parts that go into
assembling a chariot; which when dismantled, the pieces and parts can be
utilized to construct some other conveyance; with very possibly another
gender too; which means that if Steve Jobs is back on earth as rearranged
karma; then he/she just might be back as a sea urchin, or a termite, or a
fruit bat rather than a human being. He could even be kelp spore in the
Pacific ocean off the coast of San Diego, or even as E.coli 0157-H7 in the
belly of a cow being fattened up with GMO grain in one of Tyson's
concentrated animal feeding operations, or as an Indonesian child destined
to work for peanuts in one of Nike's offshore sweat shops making shoes and
sports apparel selling for big bucks to consumers all over the world.

In addition: reincarnation doesn't stop with one event; but is potentially
several cycles of birth, misery, and death called samsara.

Unlike reincarnation's potentially numerous cycles of birth, misery, and
death; Christianity allots but one resurrection per person (Dan 12:2, John
5:29, Rev 20:5-6). So then, those who undergo a second death in the
reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:10-15 won't be coming back
in another form because they will have used up their one allotted
resurrection in order to face justice at the Great White Throne.

Pop Clock Update: 770 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 42,423,920 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Floyd]

Soul and Spirit, The Error!

[SIZE=14pt]There is huge confusion and misuse of terms, when talking, writing, teaching or preaching on the subjects of "the soul", or "the spirit". The Roman Church in particular is guilty of propagating the confusion, in its perverse teachings on the subject, which after many hundreds of years is now embedded in the "psyche" of the church members and the "Priesthood". The error is now so widespread, that many or most Protestant Churches also preach the same as the Roman, as regards the "enduring human, and immortal soul".[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]The subject of "soul" and "spirit" has been a constant subjective study for much of the writers Christian life, and it had been noticed that many anomalies, and unobjective misuse of terms takes place constantly by teachers and preachers.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A major part of the problem is "woolly thinking", lack of source material, indoctrination by the RCC over hundreds of years, copyist error, differing churches Dogma, and mixing the terms "soul and spirit" together, and interchangeably misusing them in quotations and teaching. An overview of Bible text corruptions can be seen at[/SIZE]: [SIZE=14pt]Corruption of the Bible Text:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]To approach this subject objectively, it will be necessary to examine the various origins as far as is possible, and compare them to what Holy Scripture, The Bible, has to say, using the KJV (Companion). There will also be liberal reference to Dr. E. W. Bullinger in his Appendixes 9, 13, 101, and 110, and others; giving the appropriate detail.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]To begin with the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), are they the originators of the mythology? No; they are propagators, and very powerful in this regard. A very comprehensive listing of the deliberate errors by the RCC, can be accessed on the Web under "Catholic Concerns" by an ex. Nun. Also a brief overview can be obtained from; [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty:[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=14pt]Almost certainly the foundation of the teachings come from Babylon, and were formulated in the beginning by Nimrod, aided by his mother. The following is a short extract from [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]www.revelationsmessage.co.uk[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] , the 14th Chapter:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Babylon as is well known was founded by Nimrod, whose father was Cush and grandfather Ham! Nimrod was "great in rebellion against God", (Gen. 10:9,) (The word "before," Str. Hebrew 6440 can be either; "the face that turns," is from the number 6437, "to turn," "to face up to," "to turn aside / away," "turn the back," "turn the face," "turn the self," or as chosen by the translators, "before". Both are prepositional, but the context of Nimrod's story gives the sense, i.e., he was a great rebel against Jehovah, and in great sin in his life in the face of Jehovah. He and his mother were founders of false "religion" in Babylon.) (Nimrod's mother is reputed to have altered the "heavenly message," and created the "Zodiac," of which there is a copy in the temple at Dendera in Egypt. She is also reputed to have treated Nimrod as her husband sexually!) Babylon became the fountainhead of Satanic opposition to Jehovah God, until its destruction, and the removal of its priests to Pergamos (Anatolia.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]From that beginning of this Creation, the religions of the world became infused with the Satanic error, of an enduring entity called "the immortal soul" which they teach, every person possesses! So well placed was ancient Babylon geographically on the trade routes of the then known world, that the pernicious error easily spread to the far East, to Africa, to Europe via the Greeks, and later to the "New world" by migration. So fundamental is this error against the efforts of Almighty God in Christ, that the minds and hearts of sincere people worldwide can be very disturbed, when trying to correlate the differing teachings, even in one group of churches. It also leads to conflict among well-meaning sincere Christians, who hold to the "soul doctrine" as an Article of Faith, without really knowing why! In the RCC case, this doctrine is basic to that of Purgatory, which is one of the most powerful tools that they have in their efforts to control their congregations![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The following is a short extract from an article on the subject of Hell:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Purgatory.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] This concept has been taught for so long, and linked to the "immortal soul" in the Roman teaching, that many people cannot even consider that it may be a false teaching! The possibility that their own entity may end at death, is too difficult and painful to contemplate. Its concept is from Babylon, and in the Roman version, the "soul" in question can be prayed for, have "masses" said, and the "sins" of the person "mitigated" by various "acts," and in the past "payments" to the Church, which was and is lucrative for the Church. This system of course gives enormous power to the Roman Church, as for the "believer", they are the only entity able to give/ instigate these eternal benefits! This teaching of course eliminates the True message of Salvation in Christ, and also negates the fact that a person may have a DIRECT relationship with Christ![/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY therefore, the intermediary state called Purgatory, is not Biblical, and goes against the message of Salvation in the Bible. It is therefore by definition anti-Christ![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The whole of the article can be viewed at: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/hell.htm[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Most of the world's religions have a variation on this theme, and of course they are not correct. What then is the correct understanding?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]With the current emphasis in the churches on "Ecumenical understanding", this can be very difficult to ascertain, if the individual will only rely on some person who holds a position in a church or group, which has an "agenda" or "hidden motive" to maintain. The mainline churches are moving by "stealth" towards one large grouping, and they are consciously trying to avoid the areas of their teachings and dogmas that conflict with each other.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]One of these is Acts 4:12; "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved". In verses 10 and 11, that Name is explicit, It is Jesus Christ, the Crucified![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is the reason for the Satanic planted error of the immortal soul. This is the reason that satanic forces have been so active in establishing the myth of the immortal soul! (This lie was first introduced by Satan when he told Eve she would not die if she ate of the forbidden fruit, Gen. 3:3,4).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Ecumenical Movement will not countenance the supremacy of the Salvation Work of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus! Why; because it cuts to the heart of their hidden agenda, and because of that they deny "there is only one way to Almighty God, through Christ's Salvation Sacrifice"! To admit to Acts 4:12 would mean that it would exclude all the world's religions, except for a small grouping of true Christ-Ones, who know and hold the Truth![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This and more is why the "immortal soul" myth must be maintained by them, as they have then power in their own teaching, "to help people to pass from death to life, by their own teachings and ministrations"![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The writers have personal experience of an ordained Minister, who is unusually well read and versed in Scripture and many religions. He will not however accept the supremacy of Christ in the context of Acts 4:12, but will only admit to the all-encompassing love of Christ "being big enough to admit all religious people"! His list include all the world's religions, and including "New Agers, Witches, Wizards", etc[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The only people he cannot countenance are "Fundamentalists", who are guaranteed to send him into a rage of proportions leading to verbal swearing and abuse! Fundamentalists are those who accept the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and state that He only is the way of Salvation, and to the Father![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]As an example of "Ecumenical Possession", it is difficult to surpass![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]So; we now turn to what the Bible says about the soul. We can start very early in its text at Gen. 2:7. The following is an extract from the above mentioned Website [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]www.revelationsmessage.co.uk[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Rev. Chp. 6:9.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]V.9 And when He opened the 5th seal, I saw under the alter the (a)souls of them that had been slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](a) See comments Rev. 20:4 (b.) Apps. 110 (2,) 170 (3,) and 13. There is much confusion on this subject. The Greek myth of an enduring entity called the "soul," is now established teaching in the churches, and works against Christ's sacrificial death on the Cross. The Roman teaching in particular gives power to Priests and people for "purgatory" relief of "unrepentant souls," by their prayers, and "special Masses." A careful study of Scripture shows that the spirit of life is given and taken by Almighty God, and by Him alone. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The spirit of life and the dust of the ground = the living soul, Gen. 2:7. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The word soul is used very loosely in everyday speech, which only adds to the confusion. In the important instances, care is needed to ascertain the actual intended meaning. In this case, the Greek "psucha," in[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]context[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]means the individual.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] However these "individuals," "have been slain for the Word of God," and they [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]are in the Tribulation age.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]There is the implication that those so affected go straight to heaven, as the Age Time, affects the case.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] In this age, when we die, we await the resurrection of either glory with Christ, if we have trusted Him for salvation and we are washed in His redeeming blood, or resurrection to precise judgement at the "Great White Throne," at the end of the Millennial age, Rev. 20:11-12. In the case of the saved and the unsaved, the spirit of life returns to the Father, Ecc. 12:7. In the case of the Christian (the true Christ one,) there is the implication in Scripture, that the Christ Spirit returns to Christ, Acts 7:59 & Philippians 1:23.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]As can be seen from the above comments, the period of time one is living in, seems to change the case, this in Scripture is called by the Apostle Paul "the administration," or "age time" or "dispensation" by others (hence the term "Dispensationalism"). Each "age time" has different criterion and rules, hence the comments above regarding those that die in different situations, and times. The fact that there is so much confusion regarding "the soul" and "the spirit of life," and that to many people the two are interchangeable in general speech, adds to the misconceptions. There is no doubt that the "spirit" returns[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]to God at death. The soul in the Bible's own definition (and therefore God's) is as shown above in blue. But many people will object to this comment, and insist that "consciousness" continues in the "soul" after death! The Bible is clear; after the death of an individual, there is no consciousness or memory! These references confirm the point; Psms. 6:5, 30:9, 31:17, 88:11, 115:17, 118:17, 146:4, Ecc. l.9:6-10, 12:7, Isa. 38:17-19.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The great emphasis of the Necromancers of all shades, is that "there is no death." In the "Spiritualist" churches, many of their hymns emphasise this in each verse. This is the great thrust of Satan in the world, to stop people from believing that Christ has defeated death on the Calvary Cross, and that HE ALONE HAS THE POWER AND AUTHORITY TO RAISE PEOPLE FROM THE DEAD! All authority is His until He hands back the finished Work to the Father, at the end of the Millennial Reign! (1Cor. 15:24).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]It is seen from the above extract that the blue portion gives the formulation of "the soul". [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]The dust of the ground, + the spirit of Life = the living Soul![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]So the soul is an entity which is breathing! It is interesting to note that the Latin word for the soul is "anima" which means "air or breath", (see: App.13 Companion Bible). The very interesting thing to note is that the words and formulation are used for the Created animals of Genesis![/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Therefore the simple fact is that any living creature, man and animal, Created by God, and since Eden pro-created; is a "living soul", Gen.[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] 1:20![/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]As an aside, the important point in Genesis is the difference between man and animals as shown is Gen. 1:26 and 27. [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]The fact of man being Created in the likeness of the Godhead is of profound importance to realise,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] as the mind also has the same difference to animals, with the impact that difference has made since the partaking of the "fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" (Gen. 2:17)! This point needs to be made, as many religions teach that animals are equal to humans, instead of what God says in Gen. 1:26; which gives dominion to man over animals![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]When Eve, then Adam partook of that fruit, they unlocked the forbidden knowledge, and became subject to death, which brought on the "Curse" of God to Eve, and the ground cursed for Adam; but also the Promise of Gen. 3:15. That is all about Christ, and Salvation through Him, which Satan has since been combating, part of which is the myth of the immortal soul![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the view of the writers, the spirit is the enduring entity in all people, whether Christian or not.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, the "spirit of life" metamorphosis's to the "Spirit of Christ" at conversion to Christ! This goes to be with Christ at death in the writers view (Acts 7:59).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The non-Christian's "spirit of life", goes back to the Father at death, (Ecc. 12:7), to await the Judgement when reunited with the body.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The "Christ Spirit" is probably vastly different in the limbo state, (that time between death and the "glorified body") to that of the unbeliever, as Christ said[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] "God is the God of the Living, not of the dead", (Matt.22:32, Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In 1Thess. 3:13-18, the great Apostle Paul lucidly describes the condition of those that die in Christ Jesus. Three times he uses the words "sleep" or "asleep" in Jesus. In the A.V. translation the word "asleep" has been accepted, and taught by enlightened preachers for many years. It is interesting to note the word used by the Translator of the Ancient Armenian Pshitta, which has recently been commissioned and predates the Greek translation, and therefore the "Received Text". He uses the word "repose" and "reposed," instead of "sleep" and "asleep." This carries the added meaning of "peace, security, rest etc:" which in the context of Christ our Lord, feels natural, when considering all His care and love for people of goodwill; as evidenced in the Gospels! All the incidents of Jesus' love towards people are emphasized by their response to Him and His messages; even when in deep sin![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]His condemnation was always reserved for those who corrupted the True Scriptures (The Word of God and particularly the Pharisees![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The Translator of the Pshitta mentioned above can be accessed at: [/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt]Supporters Page : [/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt](Translation of the Pshitta, by Victor Alexander).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Translator is an ancient languages scholar, who uses ancient Aramaic in his work, not modern Aramaic, which is the usual method. Because of his ability and training, even to "Pictoform," his work is of particular interest and importance; even if only for comparison.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The unbelievers on the other hand await "The Great White Throne Judgement", when they are Judged by Almighty God "on all they ever did", and those failing this Judgement are subject to the "Lake of Fire", (Rev. 20:14), called "the second death".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]SUMMARY:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]It becomes apparent that each and every case in Scripture where the terms "soul and spirit" are used needs careful examination, to ascertain the actual usage and meaning. To emphasis that point, we need only look at two examples:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]-[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Gen. 1:20, the Hebrew word Nephesh is translated "life"![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]-[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Gen. 2:7, here the same word Nephesh is translated "soul"![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is clearly to suit the Dogma of the organization that had commissioned the translation. These are two examples of hundreds, and underlines the need for the student to examine every case where Nephesh is used![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]These have been very carefully done by the late[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Dr. E. W. Bullinger[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt], in his Companion Bible. They are found at the back of the Bible under the heading "Appendixes", and the ones to study are 9,13,101 and 110. Every single verse where the words are used are detailed, so that every student can be sure of the actual meaning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Alternatively, they are available on the Web, courtesy of[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Levend Water, at: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]http://www.levendwater.org/companion/index_companion.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The ideal is the Companion Bible, as each page has a wide margin with crucial information on many subjects of Scripture, including that of the soul and spirit![/SIZE]

 

[Webers_Home]

-
It was important to the plan of salvation that humanity be created
susceptible to sin and death because Christ was already assigned the task of
giving his life for the sins of the world before there even was a world (1Pet
1:20, Rev 13:8). In other words: humanity's susceptibility to sin and death
was essential; viz: man was deliberately designed with the potential to destroy
himself.

†. Gen 1:31 . . And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it
was very good.

The Hebrew word for "good" in that passage is extremely ambiguous, which
Webster's defines as capable of being understood in two or more possible
senses or ways. Well; in the case of towb (tobe) there's a catalogue of
senses and ways to choose from. However; in context, towb simply means
everything turned out exactly as God planned; including, but not limited to,
humanity's susceptibility to sin and death. That is just a cold, hard fact of life
so everybody might just as well bite the bullet, and get used to it.

Pop Clock Update: 774 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 42,644,304 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[brakelite]

[SIZE=14pt]Brakelite,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The wages of sin is death. Bible truth indeed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Like you said, Christ ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Jesus most assuredly paid the full price of our redemption’. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yes He did pay the price for you and me. But did you not read the rest of 1 John 2:2? And not only OURS but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Christ died for sin for everyone past, future, present. It will be His firstfruits that will be first-the sons of God, and then they will be with God judging the world at the White throne judgment. (1 Cor 6:1-3, James 1:18, Rev, 14:4).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan did lie indeed. But this does not mean that Satan cannot mix truth with his lies, and that when he told Adam and Eve that they would be as gods knowing good and evil, he was telling the truth: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil[/SIZE].
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[SIZE=14pt]And when he told Christ “All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it”, he was telling the Truth:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Yet God has retained the power of the throne even as He has delivered the kingdoms of this present evil world over to that old serpent the devil and Satan, who is also called ‘a great red dragon’.

Here is the extent of Satan’s dominion which God has given him:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What happens to sin now that Jesus died on the cross after we die?:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 6:7- For one who has died has been set free from sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This is both spiritually and physically. We all must die with Jesus do live with him. In this life it is the sons of God that die and live with him. The sons of God will help bring the rest of creation to God in the end:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Romans 8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]For the creation was subjected to futility[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (according to Romans 1, by God himself), not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Let’s teach this shall we:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]1 Tim 4:10-11- For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] These things command and teach.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the Name of Jesus the Savior of all men,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

Im not sure whgat you are trying to teach here, but you most certainly missed the whole point of my post regarding the atonement. My point is this: If Jesus paid the price for our sins in full, then we need not pay it, not one iota. Correct? So that removes penance, and it removes pugatory, and it removes any belief that those in hell may escape after a certain time.
Also, if one is to reject Christ's sacrifice for sin, then that individual must pay the price himself. The Bible tells us repeatedly what that price is. Confirmed by Christ's payment of that price, we know it is death. Christ didnot suffer eternal torment. Thus eternal torment can not be the cost of rebellion and sin. It was designated death in Eden, it has been repeated as death (the soul that sinneth it shall die) throughout the OT, and the NT confirms it. Now why is it that people such as weber who began this thread can utterly ignore basic gospel truth and continue to teach the lie of an eternal torment? And don't tell me the Bible teaches eternal torment. It does not. It speaks of a fire that cannot be put out. Yes. But does it teach that that fire will never go out? No. It teaches of an eternal punishment, yes. But does it teach of a continuing punishing? No. Is death not an eternal punishment if there is no resurrection? Yes.

And I haven't yet touched on the insult to the character of a merciful and loving and wise God that is portrayed in the doctrine of eternal torment. It astonishes me that so many desire to cling to it so tenaciously as though their very lives depended upon it, rather than actually thinking about what it is they are teaching and finding an alternative explanation for the few scriptures they use to support their abberant teaching. And there are very appropriate alternative explanations that do no violence either to the text, the grammar, the culture of the Biblcal student, and most especially, nor does it harm God's character.

 

[shturt678]

Im not sure whgat you are trying to teach here, but you most certainly missed the whole point of my post regarding the atonement. My point is this: If Jesus paid the price for our sins in full, then we need not pay it, not one iota. Correct? So that removes penance, and it removes pugatory, and it removes any belief that those in hell may escape after a certain time.
Also, if one is to reject Christ's sacrifice for sin, then that individual must pay the price himself. The Bible tells us repeatedly what that price is. Confirmed by Christ's payment of that price, we know it is death. Christ didnot suffer eternal torment. Thus eternal torment can not be the cost of rebellion and sin. It was designated death in Eden, it has been repeated as death (the soul that sinneth it shall die) throughout the OT, and the NT confirms it. Now why is it that people such as weber who began this thread can utterly ignore basic gospel truth and continue to teach the lie of an eternal torment?

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Thank you for caring again![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]One of the few things regarding the word is the doctrine of "eternal torment." Matt.25:41, 46 [/SIZE][SIZE=14.399999618530273px]construed with Mk.9:43-48, I have no doubts one will be TORMENTED "inwardly" and "outwardly" forever and ever where there are even different levels of hell (Lk.12:45-48).[/SIZE]



And don't tell me the Bible teaches eternal torment. It does not. It speaks of a fire that cannot be put out. Yes. But does it teach that that fire will never go out? No. It teaches of an eternal punishment, yes. But does it teach of a continuing punishing? No. Is death not an eternal punishment if there is no resurrection? Yes.

And I haven't yet touched on the insult to the character of a merciful and loving and wise God that is portrayed in the doctrine of eternal torment. It astonishes me that so many desire to cling to it so tenaciously as though their very lives depended upon it, rather than actually thinking about what it is they are teaching and finding an alternative explanation for the few scriptures they use to support their abberant teaching. And there are very appropriate alternative explanations that do no violence either to the text, the grammar, the culture of the Biblcal student, and most especially, nor does it harm God's character.

Old Jack

btw for other posters, one's "soul" never dies once conceived, ie, awakes one of two places for forever and ever beginning with Rev.20:4, 5.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
†. Rom 3:4 . .Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the
Scriptures say, "He will be proved right in what He says, and He will win His
case in court."

Quite a number of Atheists that I encounter online are convinced that the
Bible's God doesn't know what He's talking about. Well; the day is coming
when they will do a face-to-face with their maker at which time both He and
they will be given an opportunity to debate their differences. When it's over,
God will have defended Himself to such a degree that even His opponents
will have to admit He was right all along.

That's interesting. It tells me that God doesn't insist He's right just because
He says so. It tells me His ways are logical, reasonable, and defensible. I
would really like to be a spectator at some of those face-offs. Should be very
entertaining.

†. Jude 14-16 . . See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of
his holy ones to judge everyone; and to convict all the ungodly of all the
impious acts they have done in an impious way, and of all the harsh words
that impious sinners have spoken against Him.

Pop Clock Update: 777 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 42,809,592 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

-
The tragedy of the second death is that there are no more lifes after that
because according to Dan 12:2, John 5:29, and Rev 20:5-6 there is but one
resurrection allotted per person; which is very serious because according to
Rom 6:23, the wages of sin is death.

Let's say that somebody standing trial at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 told something like 120 lies in their lifetime. Well;
according to the law of sin and death (Rom 6:23) they face capital
punishment for each count of lying, for a grand total of 120 executions.
Well; they won't have 120 lives with which to be executed 120 times; they'll
have just the one; leaving a balance of 119 lies for which the wages of sin is
death. So the reason nobody is coming back from the reservoir of flaming
sulfur is just simple arithmetic; viz: the reservoir can be thought of as a sort
of debtor's prison.

†. Matt 5:25-26 . . Come to terms with your adversary quickly, while you
are in the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the
judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have
paid the last penny.

Well, the wages of sin isn't pennies, or gold, or silver, or fiat currency, or
time behind bars: no; it's capital punishment, so that once people are
executed in the reservoir of flaming sulfur that's where they'll stay because
they'll have no means at their disposal with which to pay their way out of
there.

Pop Clock Update: 780 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 42,974880 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

-
Were I to recommend a so-called fifth gospel, I would pick the one that the
Bible labels "eternal".

†. Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having an
eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation
and tribe and tongue and people; and he said with a loud voice: "Fear God,
and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; and
worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of
waters."

The eternal gospel is pretty simple. Pretty much all it says is (1) there's a
supreme being, (2) there's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and
(3) the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the
product of intelligent design.

Of particular interest to me is the inclusion of water in the eternal gospel.
Scientists theorize the origin of the earth's amazing quantity of water
without really knowing exactly where it came from, nor how it got here.
Well; that is one of the things that I like about Genesis. It takes an ignorant
blue-collar welder like myself and gives him answers to questions that
people much brighter, and better educated than I cannot answer.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers;
and to give them credit where credit is due; but not quite so natural to do
the same for their creator, which is why it will be child's play for the eternal
gospel to condemn so great a number of people to hell and eternal suffering.
They will go there because it is in their nature to go there; and to go
nowhere else but there.

Pop Clock Update: 783 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 43,140,168 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.


Buen Camino
/