Here’s the most critical question for you

[bbyrd009]

I can't travel as much as he did!
We could be disciples but we cannot be apostles.
That was reserved to understand the original 12.
11 of them witnessed the resurrection.
That's no longer possible.

i thought so too; still kinda feel that way. But Paul is called--or calls himself, i think--an apostle in the NT; so i have kind of felt like i should reconsider that.

Apostle means one who is sent.
IMO no one should be called an apostle today.

i agree, but i also could make a pretty convincing argument for you having been sent i guess

 

[pia]

I believe Jesus saw the written Word as important.

I honestly don't know. When I first met Him, I had no idea even to ask Him about a Bible, not sure I even knew what it was, so sadly it didn't even occur to me to ask Him that.
When I then got a Bible, I absolutely loved it, as the pastor showed me how we are supposed to 'study' to show ourselves approved unto God, which I found out later, is actually not the correct translation, if you go backward to the older writings.
anyway, to make a long story short, I started spending all of my time with my face in the books instead of the face to face with Him ( whether I could see Him or not, at any particular time ) and it began to change things, all that fullness of Him within me, began to wane, and things began slowly to become a struggle, to be 'approved' by God, which it took Jesus a few decades to explain in full to me, why that did not apply to a believer.
I know I'm a nobody, and no one has any reason to believe me, but I am asking you to believe Him and what He said to me...Those of The Spirit, ought to be able to distinguish The Truth imho, sadly it doesn't always seem so, as some has been so heavily indoctrinated they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in their behinds. That I find unacceptable !
I honestly don't think we're that far apart, it's just that I got to know about God being real through a different means than some others. It was more than 6 years after meeting Him that first time, that I attended my first fellowship and they told me I HAD to have a Bible . It is invaluable to some, but it's written a lot in spiritual terms ( as well as of the world ) so without at the very least The Holy Spirits input, we simply wouldn't get the whole picture, only the flesh man parts .
I have never forgotten that the Bible states :" Blessed is he who has believed and not seen", so anyone who gets weird at the fact that I saw Him, well you should be glad that He didn't have to do that for you, to believe...Me? I doubt I ever would have believed any other way, so I will be eternally grateful to Him for allowing me that, even if that makes me not blessed, as I consider myself blessed in KNOWING Him, rather than knowing something about Him, that others experienced with Him.
I have answered you to the best of my ability Stranger, hope it's enough?

 

[Stranger]

I honestly don't know. When I first met Him, I had no idea even to ask Him about a Bible, not sure I even knew what it was, so sadly it didn't even occur to me to ask Him that.
When I then got a Bible, I absolutely loved it, as the pastor showed me how we are supposed to 'study' to show ourselves approved unto God, which I found out later, is actually not the correct translation, if you go backward to the older writings.
anyway, to make a long story short, I started spending all of my time with my face in the books instead of the face to face with Him ( whether I could see Him or not, at any particular time ) and it began to change things, all that fullness of Him within me, began to wane, and things began slowly to become a struggle, to be 'approved' by God, which it took Jesus a few decades to explain in full to me, why that did not apply to a believer.
I know I'm a nobody, and no one has any reason to believe me, but I am asking you to believe Him and what He said to me...Those of The Spirit, ought to be able to distinguish The Truth imho, sadly it doesn't always seem so, as some has been so heavily indoctrinated they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in their behinds. That I find unacceptable !
I honestly don't think we're that far apart, it's just that I got to know about God being real through a different means than some others. It was more than 6 years after meeting Him that first time, that I attended my first fellowship and they told me I HAD to have a Bible . It is invaluable to some, but it's written a lot in spiritual terms ( as well as of the world ) so without at the very least The Holy Spirits input, we simply wouldn't get the whole picture, only the flesh man parts .
I have never forgotten that the Bible states :" Blessed is he who has believed and not seen", so anyone who gets weird at the fact that I saw Him, well you should be glad that He didn't have to do that for you, to believe...Me? I doubt I ever would have believed any other way, so I will be eternally grateful to Him for allowing me that, even if that makes me not blessed, as I consider myself blessed in KNOWING Him, rather than knowing something about Him, that others experienced with Him.
I have answered you to the best of my ability Stranger, hope it's enough?

It is an honest answer so certainly it is enough. Though there is only one way to be saved, that being through Jesus Christ, many and varied and mysterious are the ways God brings each one to Him. Your relationship with Him is yours, and I am sure He will give you the view of His Word He wants you to have.

Myself, I see every word in the Bible as Spirit. When I open it to read it or study it, I am viewing it through the eyes of the Holy Spirit in me. I take it in through the eyegate. The Holy Spirit then takes it and digests it as spiritual food, taking what nutrients He wants me to have from it. This in turn gives growth to my spirit.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Zachary, My old spirit is dead. A new spirit has been given. The old spirit has been done away with. I am born of God. The Father would NOT take the new Spirit He has delivered through the seed of Christ. You still have not explained how one can be "unborn of God"? How would this happen? Would God raise that old spirit and put it back? That old Spirit is gone. Crucified. The Father doesn't say: Give me back what I made new because I made a mistake with you! You are no good. He already knows my old Spirit is no good. That is why He gave me a new one.

Romans 6:6-7 KJV
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him , that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Without the new Spirit, if God UN-birthed what He has already conceived and gave birth to: Then I would be nothing but decaying flesh (sinful flesh) walking around without ANY Spirit. Because the old is DEAD. Anyone that believes you can be unborn of God, is deceived and the deceiver wants to teach the Old man ways and how we should work, when "it is finished".

Galatians 5:17-18 KJV
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

My flesh does things every day that makes the new "inward" Spirit groan. My new Spirit hates actions that are contrary to the law and life in Christ. The Spirit delights in the Lord and His ways. My new Spirit loves the law and the good work of God. My flesh is strong though and wars daily against the new Spirit. GOD knows this, OH how He knows my flesh is strong! That is why the LORD also put HIS Spirit within me, to work in conjunction with the new Spirit; to overcome, to comfort, to correct, to teach, and to lead my new Spirit(a babe) all the way home. HIS Spirit will not fail. Fear not, He has overcome this world. There is death no more for my new Spirit. I have a new name. And no one can take that away. Yes, God has ALL the power to yank my new resurrected spirit (born of God) out of the decaying flesh and raise from the dead the old corrupt spirit crucified with Christ...but why would He when I had, or will have, Nothing to add or take away from grace?


Mark 3:25 KJV
[25] And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

A new Spirit, born of God, can not sin. One spirit is dead. The Spirit that cursed and hated God and ran from God, is dead. The new is all that remains, held in an earthen vessel of flesh until the flesh returns to the ground and I am raised: new Spirit in a glorified body. Like He said. And I believe what He said.


Romans 8:15 KJV
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 

[pia]

Myself, I see every word in the Bible as Spirit

Because of how He eventually explained the Bible to me ( once I understood what the Bible was about ), I cannot take all of it as Word from God to man.........But for sure what you describe has happened to me also many a time. As a matter of fact for a long long long time, each time I asked the Lord to teach me to understand Revelation, He would always take me back to the first 2-3 chapters of Genesis, and I kid you not, there is an abundance of information in those few pages, when we do it with Him/The Holy Spirit....He has a great way of simplifying what men have complicated so much, and I love that.
I certainly do not dismiss it, but after He showed me that He is always here, whether I can see Him or not, I consider it prudent to ask Him first. If He wants to show me through the Bible, He will do that, but mostly He just talks normally.
Thank you for your post Stranger................Peace always Pia

 

[amadeus]

I honestly don't know. When I first met Him, I had no idea even to ask Him about a Bible, not sure I even knew what it was, so sadly it didn't even occur to me to ask Him that.
When I then got a Bible, I absolutely loved it, as the pastor showed me how we are supposed to 'study' to show ourselves approved unto God, which I found out later, is actually not the correct translation, if you go backward to the older writings.
anyway, to make a long story short, I started spending all of my time with my face in the books instead of the face to face with Him ( whether I could see Him or not, at any particular time ) and it began to change things, all that fullness of Him within me, began to wane, and things began slowly to become a struggle, to be 'approved' by God, which it took Jesus a few decades to explain in full to me, why that did not apply to a believer.
I know I'm a nobody, and no one has any reason to believe me, but I am asking you to believe Him and what He said to me...Those of The Spirit, ought to be able to distinguish The Truth imho, sadly it doesn't always seem so, as some has been so heavily indoctrinated they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in their behinds. That I find unacceptable !
I honestly don't think we're that far apart, it's just that I got to know about God being real through a different means than some others. It was more than 6 years after meeting Him that first time, that I attended my first fellowship and they told me I HAD to have a Bible . It is invaluable to some, but it's written a lot in spiritual terms ( as well as of the world ) so without at the very least The Holy Spirits input, we simply wouldn't get the whole picture, only the flesh man parts .
I have never forgotten that the Bible states :" Blessed is he who has believed and not seen", so anyone who gets weird at the fact that I saw Him, well you should be glad that He didn't have to do that for you, to believe...Me? I doubt I ever would have believed any other way, so I will be eternally grateful to Him for allowing me that, even if that makes me not blessed, as I consider myself blessed in KNOWING Him, rather than knowing something about Him, that others experienced with Him.
I have answered you to the best of my ability Stranger, hope it's enough?

This my dear lady is a beautiful testimony. Perhaps it is even too bad that you went ahead and obtained a Bible. My Bibles of course are precious to me, but they themselves can become idols as the fiery serpent originally made by Moses at God's command[Numbers 21:8] later had to be destroyed [II Kings 18:4] because the children of Israel had made it into an idol.

 

[pia]

This my dear lady is a beautiful testimony. Perhaps it is even too bad that you went ahead and obtained a Bible. My Bibles of course are precious to me, but they themselves can become idols as the fiery serpent originally made by Moses at God's command[Numbers 21:8] later had to be destroyed [II Kings 18:4] because the children of Israel had made it into an idol.

Thank you Sir.....Yeah I can't tell you how many times I have wondered how it would have all gone, if I hadn't become so intent on studying....But once He explained the Bible to me, and about rightly dividing the Word of TRUTH, I was glad that I had one, and let's face it, it does tell us a lot of wonderful things. But like you I don't like how some have risen it above God so it becomes an idol...Anyone who thinks that ALL of God / Jesus and The Holy spirit can possibly be contained in one book, need to rethink that position....Also I guess it depends on how much one is interested in getting to KNOW Jesus, He certainly isn't going to force anyone into it.
The Lord be praised forever more ! Pia

 

[pia]

RECONCILE all of the NT verses ... i.e.
RECONCILE the so-called OSAS NT verses with the anti-OSAS NT verses

I believe we are asked to get to KNOW Him personally, not through what others experienced with Him thousands of years ago. He is ALIVE not dead, so all who believe have access to Him...Reconciling all the scriptures? We are simply not in the know enough for that, unless we first get to KNOW and that can only be accomplished through and by Him / the Holy Spirit.

 

[lforrest]

Blessed is he who has believed and not seen", so anyone who gets weird at the fact that I saw Him, well you should be glad that He didn't have to do that for you, to believe...Me?

It's like that other verse. "It is better to give than to receive." That doesn't mean you are not blessed, because surely you were. God was watching over you even while you didn't believe in him.

Are you glad you didn't get introduced to him through a religious organization, and fed the word one crumb at a time with much struggle decerning what is the truth, and what is from man? Getting fed-up with nonsense, looking for a new church, trying to recapture the early days when you were first getting to know him.

Yes, blessesd are those who have not seen and yet believe. Because it is a miracle anyone still believes after being indoctrinated by man.

 

[Zachary]

How can one born of God, be unborn? Can you please explain how you can be unborn of God?

I have no idea. Do I have to understand everything? Who can really understand the Trinity?
However, the Lord God Almighty can do whatever He pleases.
He created us ... and He owns us!
If He chooses to unsave someone, that's His prerogative.

Just accept the 30 NT verses in the OP.
And if you wish, I'll give you 30 more.

 

[Zachary]

On the contrary, you need to catch up. I have read the OP and addressed your question. Lets move on...and please don't presume to know my spiritual condition.

I suppose your pastor should not presume to know your spiritual condition either.

 

[ScottA]

I suppose your pastor should not presume to know your spiritual condition either.

Is that the only answer you could come up with?

You have not made your intentions clear. But have gone fishing with an assignment for anyone who will bite. What is it that you are really trying to say here? Go ahead - get it off you chest.

Just accept the 30 NT verses in the OP.
And if you wish, I'll give you 30 more.

Why? What is this all about? Please explain what it is that you are getting at.

 

[pia]

Are you glad you didn't get introduced to him through a religious organization

Hi.
I simply wouldn't have made it, if I hadn't had that foundation with Him, as that did start to happen when I began to join fellowships.....The first one, that Pastor ended up being so deluded as to thinking he was the Michael spoken of in the Bible who was going to bring all the churches together in unity at the end???? But the worst was that he and every pastor after that, wanted me to 'sit under them' as they put it, and learn of them, rather then learning more from Jesus.
I found the 'doctrines' odd in places, they didn't always agree, even when they said they were the same denomination ( another word I don't like much lol ). If I had not known that Jesus is real, I truly think I would have walked away from it all
I do agree with you, and I think I did make reference to the fact, that I sure feel blessed. I totally see what you mean by your last sentence

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have no idea. Do I have to understand everything? Who can really understand the Trinity?
However, the Lord God Almighty can do whatever He pleases.
He created us ... and He owns us!
If He chooses to unsave someone, that's His prerogative.

Just accept the 30 NT verses in the OP.
And if you wish, I'll give you 30 more.

I have no problem accepting the 30 verses you gave. I confess, I read your OP multiple times, and prayed over what you say the verses imply in your list. God has reconciled it. Three earthly fathers have walked out of my life. That is mans sinful way. It is not the heavenly Father's way. We are not orphans. And we never will be. That is why it is called a sure foundation; it doesn't move.

Like you, I can't explain everything. I know I could prove a case for how God hates women and thinks they are nothing more then cattle. That point has attempted to be proven by using scripture to support it. It is a pretty strong argument with right ammunition. But God reconciled that one for me too. That is not who He is; His scripture is misused.

For whatever reason you have for it, you are driven to prove how God can retract His mercy, grace, and forgiveness if you are not good enough. We all know He has the power and right to do so...the question is, why do you want to prove the foundation can move, which means it can fail?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well...it is not opinion to agree with the scriptures.

But even if opinion and even if you leave God out of it...how do you get "unsaved" out of "saved?"

"Saved" is the word used by God. Do you believe that He defines the word the opposite of what He said? Or is it that you do not take Him at His word? (Rhetorical)

Knowing that you will surely answer that indeed you do take Him at His word, and therefore must also take Him at His word when He seems to indicate a loss of salvation.

To this, I would say show me - because there is no word from God that says, Yes, is No. No, on the contrary, the confusion is not being able to reconcile what you do not understand. So...show me, that we can come to understand and reconcile the truth.

Just going thru now.
Sorry if I'm repeating.
Also, I'm in a different time zone and apologize for the bunched up posts.

Believing that one cannot lose salvation is not biblical.
First of all, the bible must be taken as a Whole and complete thought.
We cannot pluck verses out to make them say what we want them to say.

There are many IF's in theNew Testament:

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,2Pe 1:6

and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Pe 1:7

and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8

For if these qualities2Pe 1:9

For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
2Pe 1:10

Therefore, brothers,[fn] be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

**********************


And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22

he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23

if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation[fn]under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

**************************************

We can be sure of our salvationfor as long as we remain in our faith.

If Paul makes such an effort to tell us to continue in our faith, it means we CAN fall away.

Hebrews 3:12
We must hold firm until the end

How else would you explain this?

 

[GodsGrace]

That blanket statement may also be true for those who believe they can lose their salvation if they don't answer to a distant, angry, slave driver god of their own making. Or, perhaps they just don't know that God is appeased, not distant and is like a mother hen wanting to gather her chicks under her wings.

Who said God is distant and angry and a slave driver and a God of my own making?
God is the same God that was in the OT.
People were saved by His grace and by thier faith even then.
Just as they are today.

But does God have to be a mean and angry God because He demands obedience from us?

Do you believe God does NOT demand obedience?

Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
He didn't say there IS NO yoke.
Just that it's easier.
Mathew 11:30

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, the number of verses doesn't prove a point. It just proves one has found a long list of verses to make it appear that their point is proved.

Concerning these verses you have addressed, (Matt. 7:21-23), they concern, not the Church, but the Kingdom of God. Something you and I have addressed elsewhere. See (Matt. 4:17). In (Matt. chapters 5-7) Christ is giving the 'laws of the kingdom'. See (Matt. 5:3) (Matt. 6:10). The laws of the kingdom are not the laws governing the Church of Christ. The kingdom laws are more strict than the Mosaic law.

This kingdom is the one promised to Israel in the Old Testament, rejected by them in the New Testament, but will be accomplished yet in the future during the Millennium. Between that time, when they rejected the kingdom, and, when the kingdom will be restored to them, is the time of the Church. A new and totally different body of believers. Point being...(Matt. 7:21-23) is about the entrance into the kingdom which is that millennial kingdom yet future. It is not about the believer who comes now to Christ by faith into the Church.

These verses do not speak of losing ones salvation. Christ said in (7:23), "I never knew you". That means they were never saved. They played the part, but they were never saved. Our churches are full of these types today....are they not?

If one comes to Jesus Christ by faith, then Christ knows them. And He will never say to them, I never knew you. He won't do it. Note here in these verses, that there is every reason given for these people to be accepted by Him. They did good works, they cast out demons. He didn't reject them because of their works, which were 'good'. He rejected them because He did not know them. Profound statement.

Stranger

Matthew 7:21-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
21 “A)'>Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22 B)'>Many will say to Me on C)'>that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many a]' data-fn="#fen-NASB-23339a">[a]miracles?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; D)'>depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’


Hi Stranger,

Jesus was saying how a person could be known by their fruit.
Jesus says that He will not know those who practice LAWLESSNESS (even if they can do miracles in His name).

Jesus says that those who HEAR and ACT on His words are the wise men.
24 “Therefore A)'>everyone who hears these words of Mine and a]' data-fn="#fen-NASB-23341a">[a]acts on them, b]' data-fn="#fen-NASB-23341b">[b]may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

I'm very familiarj with the teaching on the Kingdom of God.
I do, however, disagree that the Kingdom message is not for us today.
There are not two messages in the N.T. -- one for the Jews and one for us.
There is no longer Jew or gentile.
Galatians 3:28

We are ONE in Jesus. Everything He said applied to all of us even today.
I know I will not convince you, I just hope Others understand that Jesus spoke for everyone and for all time until He returns.

 

[GodsGrace]

The reason is that he lived in the time of greatest transition, that time where the word was preached to the dead in Christ and also to the living in Christ. Each would have to endure. But his message was more one of having faith in the face of adversity, and to have hope throughout the entire age and times of the gentiles.

Tomorrow then. God bless!

Who are the dead in Christ?

 

[GodsGrace]

In my understanding of "saved" versus "not saved" versus losing "salvation", I remember that God has never changed, so I look for one good example of a man of God in the OT, who lost his place with God. Did he lose his salvation?

1Ki 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
1Ki 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.
1Ki 13:3 And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out.
1Ki 13:4 And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him.
1Ki 13:5 The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD.
1Ki 13:6 And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before.
1Ki 13:7 And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward.
1Ki 13:8 And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:
1Ki 13:9 For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
1Ki 13:10 So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
1Ki 13:11 Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father.
1Ki 13:12 And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah.
1Ki 13:13 And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,
1Ki 13:14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
1Ki 13:15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
1Ki 13:16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
1Ki 13:17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
1Ki 13:18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
1Ki 13:19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
1Ki 13:20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:
1Ki 13:21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,
1Ki 13:22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
1Ki 13:23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
1Ki 13:24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.

The man of God was certainly a man of God and a prophet. His prophecies as related in the above verses were fulfilled in II Kings 23:17 about 350 years later. The man of God was saved from the wrath of the king of Israel in verse 4 above when the king's hand withered. The man of God later threw away his salvation when he failed to check in with God before going ahead and eating and drinking, in which he disobeyed God's original command to him. The man of God died by the lion because of his disobedience. [...the wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23]...

No one can take us out of God's hand, but we can always turn our back and walk away out of the hand of God.

Lot's wife from saved from Sodom, but then being saved she disobeyed God and looked back becoming then a pillar of salt.

The natural children of Israel were all saved out their bondage in Egypt, but then after crossing the Red Sea into the wilderness they repeatedly turned away from the God who had done such great miracles for them. He had saved them from the plagues that struck Egypt. He had saved them from the starvation and from dying of thirst in the wilderness. Repeatedly He had accepted their repentance for they did repent more than once for their murmuring and complaining. Finally after 10 times [Numbers 14:22-23] God decreed that none (except Joshua and Caleb) of the adults who had been saved out of Egypt would be allowed to enter into the Promised Land. They would die in the wilderness. [...the wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23]...

Do we suppose that we are special with a higher place in God than that man of God in I Kings 13? Some might say that we have more or better promises than that man of God had. That may be so, but then we should read and understand what Jesus said here:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

To me it says that if we have really received more from God than any of those in the OT, then God will require more from us. If we are doing more and better considering all that God has given us, what are we likely to receive when we fail to use properly what we have been given?

We have [in the United States certainly] received time, money, opportunity, clothes, education, easy Bible access, etc. beyond what most people in most countries of the world have received at any time or place. So then... "much is given... much is required".

"... Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." Job 1:21

You mention the Israelites.
They promised to obey the 10 Commandments.
Who of them were saved. Those who in faith attempted to, or those who worshippe the Golden Calf?

Is it not the same today?-

If one has faith, he is saved.
if one loses faith, HOW could he still be saved?

 

[GodsGrace]

This puts the cart in front of the horse.

It is because a person does the will of the Father that he is saved. Therefore, if that person has done the will of the Father, there is no problem. You have purposed a hypothetical that only has one possible outcome, but have asserted the impossible, as if God Himself could loose one whom He has found.

No, the matter is rather as John writes:

1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

I agree...
Whoever ABIDES in Him is saved.