Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[BarneyFife]

WE must sound a wee bit more like paul .

Do I need to quote all that Paul has to say about unity? Because it is immense. The fact (based on reputable research) is that most of us (Christians) are not actively drawing nearer to Christ, and it is a matter of simple geometry that, as we draw nearer and nearer to Christ, we cannot help but to draw nearer to each other, Rick Warren notwithstanding. Many are drawn to forums like these because they have an innate desire to debate. This fact alone is bound to stir up enmity among us.

 

[BarneyFife]

With all due respect, being a church “member” doesn’t make one a saint.

Kind regards my friend.

With kind and friendly regards to you, as well, I tend to agree but your say-so doesn't quite make it so.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

making the distinction between being faithless and denying Him is not necessarily that helpful.

It is helpful for those who are struggling with sin in their relationship with God. It's good for them to know that God has their back as long as they don't out and out deny him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The problem is, denying Him usually does not happen overnight, and it's usually a result of being faithless one time too many.

I couldn't agree more. I think the common path to a denial of Christ is a gradual decline. With warning signs all along the way.

 

[BarneyFife]

It is helpful for those who are struggling with sin in their relationship with God. It's good for them to know that God has their back as long as they don't out and out deny him.

I guess that's why I said not necessarily helpful instead of not helpful at all.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is atrocious, FB. I'm really disappointed by this. I'm sorry if this raises your ire, but I don't get the calling into question others' standing with God. It is exactly the kind of judgment Paul warned against. And I'm pretty sure it's squarely against forum rules. I hope you still consider me a friend. If I weren't, I would've just ignored this.

Note the word 'probably' in my post. He probably was not saved during that time. Whether he really was or not is known by God. But I say he probably was not because of this...

"6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:6-10​

 

[BarneyFife]

Would you post a paradox in the Bible? I'd love to look at one together.

I'm sorry it took so long to reply to this. I got distracted.

Let's see...

(Hopefully we can find one on-topic)

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. (Romans 11:22)

This is only a mild paradox, because elements in the context and within the verse itself reveal they are not in direct conflict.

What do you think?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the only way you can guarantee not to offend someone, is not to make any comment.

Ain't that the truth, lol.
I've noticed I offend more just posting plain Bible passages than I do addressing people from my own self.

 

[BarneyFife]

Note the word 'probably' in my post. He probably was not saved during that time. Whether he really was or not is known by God. But I say he probably was not because of this...

" 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:6-10​

If you say the word "probably'" is enough to disqualify the statement as a condemnation, I'll just have to take your word for it. I trust you.

 

[Addy]

@BarnyFife ... I just LOVE how you talk.. .and how you handle things.

 

[BarneyFife]

@Ferris Bueller

I'm also assuming that you're not quite as worried about what a post reads like to the person you're quoting as it does to any uninitiated onlookers. Please forgive me if I'm presuming too much.

 

[BarneyFife]

@Addy

You're much too kind. Not I, but Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ain't that the truth, lol.
I've noticed I offend more just posting plain Bible passages than I do addressing people from my own self.

You have heard me say it....You post scriptures to the OSAS crowd, it is like showing them a cross and they hiss and recoil like vampires. Exorcisms and invoking the Word of God. You are just mean when you quote scriptures! So hurtful!

And again I am going to say that there is no such thing as legalism in Christianity....unless you are one of those that mix the Old and New Testament to form a religion. If you are quoting Mosaic Laws some one could call you a legalist....but you should not be doing that anyway.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have always thought that statement in v.21, meant they lose their salvation and I still tend to lean that way

Or, more accurately(?), have already lost it. The 'living like this' in sin being the sign that they do not presently belong to the truth. Whether or not they really had it in the first place being a meaningless mental exercise since the outcome—being condemned—is the same in either case.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

but there's an argument that such believers will lose their inheritance, but still be saved as by fire.

I think the church has made a serious error by separating 'inheritance' and 'salvation', as if you can be saved but just not have inheritance. And I think a big reason they have made this error is thinking 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is the 'work' of ones personal obedience to God in their salvation. As a result, many think you can have zero works to show for your faith and you will still be saved.

 

[BarneyFife]

This is a simple reminder i give and not an accusation .
But even paul said , I stand in doubt of you , or IF so be YE have the SPIRIT . He said it to those who were loving that sin .
Look almost all folks probably think i follow all darkness and satan and many or at least some have even called me Son of perdtion
anti christ and believe me the list goes on with names . But i fear them not nor do the accusations trouble my soul .
My sorrow is for them , as my heart is for their good . But lets face it , In these days most would rather hear
Smooth things , money things , sin things , just give them that peace of feeling saved speeches .

I don't think you follow all darkness and satan.

 

[NewMusic]

I think the church has made a serious error by separating 'inheritance' and 'salvation', as if you can be saved but just not have inheritance. And I think a big reason they have made this error is thinking 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is the 'work' of ones personal obedience to God in their salvation. As a result, many think you can have zero works to show for your faith and you will still be saved.

Well the reason they make that argument comes from the scripture(s) referring to their works being burned up like wood, hay, stubble, etc., but still saved by fire. I cannot recall where that verse is at the moment.

Works that get burned up are works of the flesh, not the Spirit. Only the works of the Spirit will survive that fire and be eternal.

Works of the flesh are all the saints who are unschooled about the difference between their spirit and their soul, and they think that whatever thing they do for God, with good intentions, is a good work, but it is not. It's still their flesh.

 

[marks]

I'm sorry it took so long to reply to this. I got distracted.

Let's see...

(Hopefully we can find one on-topic)

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. (Romans 11:22)

This is only a mild paradox, because elements in the context and within the verse itself reveal they are not in direct conflict.

What do you think?

Good example!

We can see them as contradictory, if the one in Jesus' hand is the branch that can be broken off. I'm figuring this is what you had in mind?

How do you see the conflict resolved?

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Good example!

We can see them as contradictory, if the one in Jesus' hand is the branch that can be broken off. I'm figuring this is what you had in mind?

How do you see the conflict resolved?

Much love!

Well, the short and sweet of it is that I believe when Christ says "no man" he actually means "no other man." How could they snatch themselves--they would have to wriggle or jump out, wouldn't they? I don't believe He would force someone to go to Heaven if it would be torture to them. I have unfortunately seen people turn completely from Christ many times.

Who or what do you think the branch that can be cut off is?

 

[marks]

Who or what do you think the branch that can be cut off is?

Unbelievers. Unbelieving Israel was broken off, so I'm figuring the other branches that are broken off are likewise unbelieving.

Same as "the branch that does not abide in Me". Someone who is not "in Christ".

Much love!